I am sad! N6496R left in wx, no windows

Tony_Scarpelli

Tony_Scarpelli

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Tony_Scarpelli
How do you make a small fortune in aviation? You start with a big fortune.

I was out at my old field today and the guy who bought my airplane is having hard times. The airplane now has a storage lean on it. They started to rebuild the engines last February and he has half the engine and the airport that evicted him has the other half. The plane is on tie down with the windows out of it (they were in the middle of a complete refurbishment) but it is in the wx and plastic falling off. No one cares.

The guy will never get the plane back because of the $10k lean, the airport probably cannot sell the airframe for that without engine, prop and the panel was completely removed and tossed out.

So now this plane will cost someone $10k engine, $2k prop, $10k panel plus whatever you can negotiate to the airport and avgas provider to lift their leans.

In the mean time it is in the weather going into winter.

I sold the man a perfectly good working Cherokee $14,500 airworthy in every way, good paint, new interior, compressions high 70's, all accessories rebuilt or IRaned within 200 hrs. I warned him not to rebuild the perfectly running 2800 hr tbo engine but his 70 year old IA who lost his shop due to a reputation for being expensive (set in his ways), convinced him otherwise. Now the plane is in parts and useless to anyone. The IA claims that even if we had all the parts it requires $10k more parts purchased (bearings, rods and such) to put it back together.

Tomorrow I will go out and tape up all the windows maybe get some tarp to throw over the plane. I feel as if I left an old friend on the battle field to die.

I tried to get the guy to release the ownership, logs, engine parts and instruments to me in exchange for my getting the airport and gas leans removed and not come after him but he is not interested. He blames everyone for his failure.

I know if I put it back together I would have more in it than I could buy a Cherokee already setup with IFR GPS and low time engine but I hate to see this happen to my first airplane.
 
He'd rather see it rot than let you have it back?

I don't get some people. Sorry, Tony.
 
Sad to hear. I soloed in that plane!

Jim
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
How do you make a small fortune in aviation? You start with a big fortune.

I was out at my old field today and the guy who bought my airplane is having hard times. The airplane now has a storage lean on it. They started to rebuild the engines last February and he has half the engine and the airport that evicted him has the other half. The plane is on tie down with the windows out of it (they were in the middle of a complete refurbishment) but it is in the wx and plastic falling off. No one cares.

The guy will never get the plane back because of the $10k lean, the airport probably cannot sell the airframe for that without engine, prop and the panel was completely removed and tossed out.

So now this plane will cost someone $10k engine, $2k prop, $10k panel plus whatever you can negotiate to the airport and avgas provider to lift their leans.

In the mean time it is in the weather going into winter.

I sold the man a perfectly good working Cherokee $14,500 airworthy in every way, good paint, new interior, compressions high 70's, all accessories rebuilt or IRaned within 200 hrs. I warned him not to rebuild the perfectly running 2800 hr tbo engine but his 70 year old IA who lost his shop due to a reputation for being expensive (set in his ways), convinced him otherwise. Now the plane is in parts and useless to anyone. The IA claims that even if we had all the parts it requires $10k more parts purchased (bearings, rods and such) to put it back together.

Tomorrow I will go out and tape up all the windows maybe get some tarp to throw over the plane. I feel as if I left an old friend on the battle field to die.

I tried to get the guy to release the ownership, logs, engine parts and instruments to me in exchange for my getting the airport and gas leans removed and not come after him but he is not interested. He blames everyone for his failure.

I know if I put it back together I would have more in it than I could buy a Cherokee already setup with IFR GPS and low time engine but I hate to see this happen to my first airplane.
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Sad story. When I look around at pretty much every airport there are many, many, birds that will probably never fly again that someone is paying storage on or not. People even do that at my airport KADS which is straight crazy given their prices. Why not donate them to an aviation charity, give them to an aspiring young pilot, something. I don't understand pilots sometimes.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Sad story. When I look around at pretty much every airport there are many, many, birds that will probably never fly again that someone is paying storage on or not. People even do that at my airport KADS which is straight crazy given their prices. Why not donate them to an aviation charity, give them to an aspiring young pilot, something. I don't understand pilots sometimes.
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there is a nice Beech sitting in an open T hangar at my airport. Been there since I started taking lessons 5 years ago. Tires flat, paint dirty. It was once a nice plane. The FBO manager said the guy doesn't want to sell it at a low price, so he'd rather pay rent and sit on it. Weird.
 
Strange times at 3AU this year... I'm sure there is a lot more to the story. Sad that this plane has become a casualty.
 
Oh my god, this happens at every airport, every day. It's so sad. Ramp mummies. Often it's emotional attachments, I think. Right next to me used to be a 150 that grew moss on the wings, tires been flat for a decade and the plastic windows so opaque from the sun you'd think someone had filled the cabin with milk. Yet the widow of the gentleman who owned it paid her tie down fee's regularly every month like clockwork. The thing isn't even worth keeping for parts - she just couldn't let go. It had a nice STOL-kit as well, but that's all rotting away now. And at my mechanics airport a once gorgeous 601P sits and rots away. Owner long died and the family can't make up their mind about daddy's old toy. Such a waste of resources and a beautiful plane. Now the corrosion is eating it alive and it's probably beyond saving. I've tried taking it off them as a parts plane for mine, but they're not interested. At Corona sits another 601P with tumbleweeds lodged in her wheel wells. It makes me terribly sad.

It's an expensive hobby and once you fall behind on maintenance, it takes herculean efforts just to get back to square one. I do think that for a handy A&P and a bit of a salvager it could probably be worth the while in many cases, and one could make a living out of it. But it won't be easy money and it will take a lot of hard work. But for a young kid with a brand new A&P, a little clever business head and not afraid to work, it would probably be a nice way to work for oneself, buying and fixing up neglected planes.
 
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this attitude is so sad. I remember a discussion on the red board years ago, where the gist was that a 60's era entry level plane which the owner bought sometime in the 70's in the neighborhood of $7000...now as prices had begun to fall, his statement was he'd rather burn it down then "give it away!" Even though he would still make much more back then he had bought it for and had years of good use from it...I still shake my head over that one.
 
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Can't understand why someone would not cut their loss and sell the airplane for whatever the market will bare. Why would you want to pay for storage and maybe insurance? Plenty of new pilots out there looking for a good deal on a used airplane. It looks like a lot of airports now have a ramp dedicated to derelicts .
 
There's a twin tied down at Millard that hasn't moved in years... outside, no cover, tires flat, rotting away. Not for sale. God only knows what you'd find in the T-hangars. Some people would rather keep paying money to store something than face reality, I guess. It's why we have millions of cubic feet of storage facilities in this country that seem to be mostly full of crap that should be recycled, buried or given away.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
Only a airplane owner or yacht owner could identify with that.
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Truer words have never been spoken! Typically, it works like this. An older gentleman can no longer run his toy due to age or other issues. This was his last, best toy. They had a lot of good times together and he really doesn't want to sell but his body or wife is nagging him into reluctant action. He has in his mind, taken good care of his toy. Like that Loran he got back in 1990, it cost $5000! and the 20 yr. old paint job. He is not going to give it away. So, he prices it 20% above market and there it sits until the wife wonders why the thing hasn't sold yet. So he reluctantly drops the price 20%. The problem is the toy has lost 20% in value in the mean time. The cycle repeats itself until someone dies or it goes to zero in value. Seen it time and time again with sailboats, and now airplanes. :dunno: I hope that I am better when my time comes.
 
Tony,

It's just a metal, fabric and a collection of parts. It doesn't feel a thing.

I certainly don't think of planes this way when they're alive, well, and doing what they were built to do, but in a case like this, you may be better off detaching yourself and seeing the plane for what it is.

Still a shame, though, no doubt about it.
 
Sorry to hear Tony. Maybe get a few people in a room, and see if sanity prevails. I know you can be a good salesman, and with the goal of saving a nice plane, maybe they will find some common ground. Sadly, even the nicest 140 isn't worth a ton of money.

My tie-down sob story. A few years ago I stopped at San CArlos Apache AZ for a short stay. On the ramp was an early model Lear, I didn't know the type but like a 24/25? Anyway, it was rough shape. The left engine was missing, the flaps were gone, the windows were all trashed, tail had bits missing and it was peeling paint.

I had to think back, at one time Bill Lear sold this plane to someone who loved it and flew it with relish. Over time, the engines got older, radios started having trouble, a few serious repairs and now it winds up in the death spiral. I'm guessing parts of it saved another Lear, and maybe that's my ray of sunshine about the deal. Very sad.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
Tomorrow I will go out and tape up all the windows maybe get some tarp to throw over the plane. I feel as if I left an old friend on the battle field to die.
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If you're doing it just to feel a little better, go for it. Otherwise, think carefully about whether a tarp and some duct tape will have any real effect on the outcome of this sad story. I'm guessing not. Your old friend is gone, there's just a shell left where it used to be. A memorial.
 
Sad enough when they are GA planes. I know of a Lockheed Lodestar and a DC3 that are similarly abandoned.
 
stratobee said:
But for a young kid with a brand new A&P, a little clever business head and not afraid to work, it would probably be a nice way to work for oneself, buying and fixing up neglected planes.
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I doubt that. You should see the prices on parts for older airplanes; it's obscene, if you can even get them. There's a lot of stuff that just isn't available anymore. And then there are often the ADs that have cropped up since the thing was last annualed, and some of those can instantly make an airplane lose a pile of value. For a neglected airplane, it might as well cost all its value.

Mice and birds get into airplanes and their waste causes unbelievable corrosion. They also chew up expensive stuff. The sun rots all the upholstery and plastic. Heat dries out the bearings in the instruments and they no longer work. Engine hoses harden and crack, seals and gaskets shrink and leak. Steel stuff rusts, and even shallow rust pits on stressed parts makes them junk. Fuel evaporates from the tanks and leaves hard-to-remove varnish. The wind moves the control surfaces and ruins hinges, stops, cables, pulleys, everything. In short, nature does its best to reclaim all the materials in that airplane and put them back into the ground where they came from.

I've worked on too many of these sorts of things to have any belief that a good living could be made from it. You might get one airplane out of five derelicts, and you'd still buy a lot of new parts.

Dan
 
rbridges said:
there is a nice Beech sitting in an open T hangar at my airport. Been there since I started taking lessons 5 years ago. Tires flat, paint dirty. It was once a nice plane. The FBO manager said the guy doesn't want to sell it at a low price, so he'd rather pay rent and sit on it. Weird.
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Why are people so greedy? Sad. I am looking for a plane and its driving me nuts.
 
As many have said, this story repeats itself at just about every airport in the country. I have to drive by this abandoned WarriorII every time I go to my hangar. Same story, folks have made offers but owner says its too low. The warrior continues to turn into dust. Flat tires, paint peeling off, glass is so bad you can't even look inside. I would not take it now if they offered it to me for free. Couple of weeks ago, the FBO apparently got tired of the sore sight and moved it away from the ramp to an out of the way spot on the grass next to................my hangar! Just when I though I would not have to look at this bird again they park it where it reminds me everyday that I will never let my airplane get this way. When I can't fly anymore I'm sure i'll be able to find a young pilot who would love to have a very well maintained Mooney for nothing, except taking an old man for a hamburger run once in a while.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Came across a p-plonk 182 that is about 4 years past annual.. Allegedly the widow thinks it is worth $100k.

I am trying to figure out if I Should offer $35k.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Came across a p-plonk 182 that is about 4 years past annual.. Allegedly the widow thinks it is worth $100k.

I am trying to figure out if I Should offer $35k.
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very similar situation, 182 I know mid-60s vintage mid-time engine, has not flown for about 8 years, annualed about 3 years ago but still not flown, the owner had brought price down to about $50,000 but really only worth run out price..though I know better then to even offer...
 
Going on 75 I won't be able to fly forever - I'm a realist.
My 1957 Apache is kept going by lots of love and copious amounts of money. I have idly thought that maybe I should sell it and rent a plane (would save oodles of bucks) But I can't bring myself to do it. The wife is well aware that I have put over $50K of maintenance into the plane over the past ten years - fresh engines, ended the recurring AD's, hoses, flaps, coolers, powerpack, just put all new rod ends on the tail section two weeks ago, etc, etc, and etc.)
True market value is maybe $20K, or a little more - on a good day with a tailwind - despite it being far, far better mechanically than the shiny ones with leather seats and glass in the panel.
She will never be able to get more than a small fraction of the money put into the plane by selling it after I am gone. Hopefully I will have time at the end (and see it coming) to have it parted out so that it does not become a rotting hulk out behind the tee hangars.
But until then, I will fly it like I stole it :D
 
This thread reminds me of the NW ramp at Chino. Tons of airplanes rotting in their tiedowns that will never fly and probably never be sold....and that doesn't include all of the vintage/warbird derelicts.
 
This thread reminds me of when I owned a sailboat in Miami. I'm sure this was not intentional, it rarely is. Life happens and you need to shift your focus to more pressing matters like family, health or employment; in no particular order. If it was abandoned out of feeling overwhelmed, maybe it could have been prevented if someone offered or if the owner accepted a helping hand. Very sad nonetheless.
 
Wings of Hope here at KSUS has many spaces under the shade port hangers that are filled with donated twins and other such aircraft.

Its amazing to walk by and see.
 
asgcpa said:
Why are people so greedy? Sad. I am looking for a plane and its driving me nuts.
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Well, it goes both ways. How much are you willing to pay for a top quality plane? There's a ton of crap out there available at bargain basement prices, so obviously you are looking for a good plane. Do you expect someone to sell a good one for for bargain basement price?
 
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There's no shortage of sad, forgotten airplanes. This one has sat for AT LEAST 15 years (that's the first time I saw it....could have been there for ten before that...didn't look much different than in this photo.) Yet they're paying $150+ per month for the hangar to sit there.
 

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Some of the old timers at KHWY say this old lady was pristine when she was first tied down just 8 years ago. Then the owner died and his son disappeared. Tie down can be a rough go.
 

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Henning said:
Well, it goes both ways. How much are you willing to pay for a top quality plane? There's a ton of crap out there available at bargain basement prices, so obviously you are looking for a good plane. Do you expect someone to sell a good one for for bargain basement price?
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Well, in a sense, yes. My plane is supposedly worth only about $2,000 since it apparently needs $43,000 in upgrades. Although according to another poster, I would actually need to give the plane away and pay the "buyer" an additional $3,000 so they get "a fair deal."
 
EdFred said:
Well, in a sense, yes. My plane is supposedly worth only about $2,000 since it apparently needs $43,000 in upgrades. Although according to another poster, I would actually need to give the plane away and pay the "buyer" an additional $3,000 so they get "a fair deal."
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Ed, since I like you... I'll take it off your hands for only $1K and will eat the other $2K in losses. :dunno: Seriously, I think the market just hasn't picked up enough yet. Or something, I dunno. Why you still own that airplane is a mystery to me. I was seriously considering a Comanche for a while, but decided to go a different route.

Unrelated to Ed's Comanche, people do sometimes get unreasonable when either buying or selling airplanes and cars - I assume it's the same for boats. I've looked at a few old "classic" cars in the past. Some owners of derelict rust buckets set their price based on what it could become some day. I've also been the seller of one of the aforementioned derelicts (a solid but neglected '51 F1 pickup), and some buyers want to pay scrap prices or less.

With airplanes, there can be such a HUGE difference between what someone paid for a plane and spent keeping it flying, and what it's worth now that it's tough to face the sad facts and let it go. That's especially the case if the owner died and the family is trying to sell it -- plus they have no idea how quickly the value tanks if the plane is not flown, maintained and inspected regularly. Let it sit for a few years and you may as well cut it up for scrap. They family, though, probably thinks you can just fire it up and fly away.
 
We have everything from a beech 18 to an a-4 rotting away here. If I won the lottery I think I'd try to get my hands on the beech, just to get it back into the air.
 
DaleB said:
Ed, since I like you... I'll take it off your hands for only $1K and will eat the other $2K in losses. :dunno: Seriously, I think the market just hasn't picked up enough yet. Or something, I dunno. Why you still own that airplane is a mystery to me. I was seriously considering a Comanche for a while, but decided to go a different route.

Unrelated to Ed's Comanche, people do sometimes get unreasonable when either buying or selling airplanes and cars - I assume it's the same for boats. I've looked at a few old "classic" cars in the past. Some owners of derelict rust buckets set their price based on what it could become some day. I've also been the seller of one of the aforementioned derelicts (a solid but neglected '51 F1 pickup), and some buyers want to pay scrap prices or less.

With airplanes, there can be such a HUGE difference between what someone paid for a plane and spent keeping it flying, and what it's worth now that it's tough to face the sad facts and let it go. That's especially the case if the owner died and the family is trying to sell it -- plus they have no idea how quickly the value tanks if the plane is not flown, maintained and inspected regularly. Let it sit for a few years and you may as well cut it up for scrap. They family, though, probably thinks you can just fire it up and fly away.
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Oh, I'm already taking a $25k bath on it while asking $45k. The buyers want me to put ANOTHER $25k into it and then let them have it for $40k. Yeah, I'd like a Bugatti Veyron for the price of a Camry, but buyers need to be serious.
 
LDJones said:
There's no shortage of sad, forgotten airplanes. This one has sat for AT LEAST 15 years (that's the first time I saw it....could have been there for ten before that...didn't look much different than in this photo.) Yet they're paying $150+ per month for the hangar to sit there.
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In a moderate case scenario how much would it take to restore that machine?
 
Alexb2000 said:
Why not donate them to an aviation charity, give them to an aspiring young pilot
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You'd be surprised just how difficult it is to find an aviation charity willing to accept an airplane as a donation.

I wanted to do it and for the benefit to be relatively local. I went through multiple organizations that were interested, until they started squabbling in their boards about what to do with it, etc. I went very deep in these discussions only to have to move on when it was apparent that they would never be able to make a decision and accept the donation. Luckily, I finally found the right fit and it made me, and them, very happy.

I will note that there are plenty of groups nationally that could have made it easier, but the benefit wouldn't have remained local.
 
LJS1993 said:
In a moderate case scenario how much would it take to restore that machine?
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The biggest question is the engine....not sure if it would even turn over. Then there's all the other components that have sat for 15+ years in temps from -30F to 100F. Who knows what would need to be replaced. I'd maybe give $5K for the plane and take my chances.
 
We had a 172 rotting away at my airport. Same old story, the owner wanted to sell, but not at the price it was really worth. So it sat. Eventually the airport mechanic bought it at a good deal and brought it back to life.
 
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