I am now night current!

woodstock

woodstock

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despite not having soloed yet that is.

all my flights now are going to be night flights, at least til my CFI can fly wkds again that is... so we flew to OKV and back. it was sunset when we took off - oh so pretty. 3 landings, full stop - too bad I don't have my license yet, I'd be all set!

I reallllly like night flying. it's gorgeous - and so peaceful.
 
woodstock said:
despite not having soloed yet that is.

all my flights now are going to be night flights, at least til my CFI can fly wkds again that is... so we flew to OKV and back. it was sunset when we took off - oh so pretty. 3 landings, full stop - too bad I don't have my license yet, I'd be all set!

I reallllly like night flying. it's gorgeous - and so peaceful.
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Night flying is by far my favorite type of flying. Everything is so peaceful, and the air is usually calm. I could fly all night and be happy!

I'm glad you're enjoying your flying. Are you gonna solo at night too?
 
Before the "Student Solo night flights" debate heats up I'd just like to say I love flying at night.


Vis is usually better.
Air is usually calmer.
ATC is usually not as busy and more apt to approve the odd request or simply to gab about Pilot/Controller questions.
Usually far less traffic
No glare, no matter what your heading.
Panel usually easier to read (assuming proper panel lighting)
Usually No. #1 to land.
Lighted landmarks usually very easy to spot and track
City lights are purty.
 
Night flying is my favorite, too. Except when I want to sightsee the landscape, like flying the Grand Canyon.
 
Night flight takes me away from the family in the evenings. Otherwise, I would have WAY more hours at night than I do. I love the views, I love the quiet, I love being able to see traffic for many miles away. It''s smooth, it's cool, it's great.

My flight school did not allow students to solo at night, so I did not get to go up alone until after I was a PP. It was scary the first time, all alone up there. Now I prefer it. Some of my favorite times alone in a plane have been at night, just puttering around.

Jim G
 
sounds like a lot of us like night flying!

it's interesting to see what ISN'T there, too. "ok, that's the ridge before which we need to be at 1500, I can tell because there are no/few lights on it".

or "that must be Purcellville because it's the only cluster of lights, about where it should be" (right of route 7, after the ridge putting you into the ADIZ, etc etc.)

I don't think my first solo will be at night. hope not anyway. then again, my landings at night are pretty good so far - less 'clutter' so you can focus on landings. plus NOT seeing the ground as well may be a good thing - less freakout factor. hahahaha

one thing to watch out for - easier to sink without knowing it!!
 
Beth,

Folks are different on the sink issue.

I've always found it easier to make good landings at night.
 
wsuffa said:
Beth,

Folks are different on the sink issue.

I've always found it easier to make good landings at night.
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Hi

actually I didn't mean sink while landing, I mean sink in general - flying along at 2500 and all of a sudden you are at 2300 - oops.
 
woodstock said:
sounds like a lot of us like night flying!

it's interesting to see what ISN'T there, too. "ok, that's the ridge before which we need to be at 1500, I can tell because there are no/few lights on it".

or "that must be Purcellville because it's the only cluster of lights, about where it should be" (right of route 7, after the ridge putting you into the ADIZ, etc etc.)

I don't think my first solo will be at night. hope not anyway. then again, my landings at night are pretty good so far - less 'clutter' so you can focus on landings. plus NOT seeing the ground as well may be a good thing - less freakout factor. hahahaha

one thing to watch out for - easier to sink without knowing it!!
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Unless the FAA has changed things, there is no student solo at night. It's considerably more risky in general but still safe, when done properly and certainly night flying is both spectacular &/or quite knarly at times.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Unless the FAA has changed things, there is no student solo at night. It's considerably more risky in general but still safe, when done properly and certainly night flying is both spectacular &/or quite knarly at times.
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I assume you mean first solo only - I assume before your checkride you actually will do solo night flights, right?
 
woodstock said:
I assume you mean first solo only - I assume before your checkride you actually will do solo night flights, right?
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There's no requirement for it, but....

There is an endorsement that a CFI can give for solo night flight before PPL. The endorsements in my book (not signed, just the blank endorsements), reference 61.87(c) and (m), but I don't see any mention of night there. It is titles "presolo flight training at night" and the text is:

I have given ________[First name, MI, Last name] the flight training required by 61.87(c) and (m) in a ______________[make and model aircraft]. He/She has demonstrated proficiency in the applicable maneuvers and procedures listed in 61.87(d) through (k), as appropriate, and 61.87(m) and is proficient to make safe solo flights at night in a ____________[make and model aircraft].
 
woodstock said:
I assume you mean first solo only - I assume before your checkride you actually will do solo night flights, right?
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There may be an endorsement for it per FAA but I know of no insurance companies that allow for it unless they're loosening up some. Just like no solo IFR training in IMC...
 
My CFI would not sign me off for night solo at any time. All my night time as a student was dual.

Nice as it is, my weather minimums are a lot more stringent at night. I DON'T want to stumble into a cloud by accident. I'm not instrument rated and this is an easily avoided emergency situation.
 
Ghery said:
My CFI would not sign me off for night solo at any time. All my night time as a student was dual.

Nice as it is, my weather minimums are a lot more stringent at night. I DON'T want to stumble into a cloud by accident. I'm not instrument rated and this is an easily avoided emergency situation.
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I guess my question is - if you never did it while under instruction (watchful eye of CFI even if he isn't there with you) then how are you magically proficient just because you passed a checkride?
 
woodstock said:
I guess my question is - if you never did it while under instruction (watchful eye of CFI even if he isn't there with you) then how are you magically proficient just because you passed a checkride?
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It's like the IFR ticket in such that it is often very close to IFR at night (or IS IFR and not visibly such) and more risky than day VFR all the time so we practice it dual then when you both think you're ready and you're licensed and current and proficient, ya go for it all by yourself as a PIC decision.

During primary training in addition to the mandatory hood time, which helps a lot for night ops, I personally insist on a few hours of true black-as-night type of night flights out in the country and/or in night haze, not the ones with city lights or moonlight that meet the FAA regs but are of much less value to pilot training.

By the time you have the unrestricted private license in hand you should be well aware of your limitations if any and can always have a CFI oversee some solo night flights at that time... or you could split some airtime with some other pilot who already has some good night PIC experience.
 
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To me, night flights are essential IMC flights. I'm not using the horizon for reference. Where is it? Are you sure that thing over there is a horizon?

Try taking off towards the ocean at Ocean City at night. I wouldn't even do this with my IR.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
There may be an endorsement for it per FAA but I know of no insurance companies that allow for it unless they're loosening up some. Just like no solo IFR training in IMC...
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You got me with this one. By training do you mean a non instrument rated person? If so when is solo IFR training in VMC allowed? You would still need a CFII and that by definition means NOT solo.

Or did you mean that at night a person can not file IFR in IMC to do some approaches? If so please explain more I am not familiar with any restrictions on the reasons a properly rated person may file IFR.

BTW I did almost all of my IFR training at night, I even did my instrument check ride at night.
 
I still don't see how its more dangerous, or even "like IMC" to fly at night. The airplane flies the same. Obstructions are lighted, and therefore easier to see. Airports can be seen from many many many miles out.

I've never had a problem finding the horizon, and a quick double check of the AI and TC to verify straight and level can be done during day or night.

BTW - anyone ever fly at night, and use one of those little tiny towns as a checkpoint that absolutely cannot be seen during the day?

I'll give ya - don't fly over open water without due caution. It took JFK Jr, and many other pilot's lives as well.
 
NickDBrennan said:
I still don't see how its more dangerous, or even "like IMC" to fly at night. The airplane flies the same.
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Try night over water with a high cloud deck. The darkness will suck the eyes out of your head and you can become spaitally disoriented very quickly, exactly like being in the clouds. Also off field landing are much more dangerous as you really do not know what is on the ground sinc eit is not lit.

NickDBrennan said:
Obstructions are lighted, and therefore easier to see. Airports can be seen from many many many miles out.
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While the Sandia crest may be pretty will lit at night most mountains aren't. :eek:
 
smigaldi said:
Try night over water with a high cloud deck. The darkness will suck the eyes out of your head and you can become spaitally disoriented very quickly, exactly like being in the clouds. Also off field landing are much more dangerous as you really do not know what is on the ground sinc eit is not lit.
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I agree. But a student is not likely to be flying over open water tho. I also conceeded the point that dark night over water is not a good idea.

While the Sandia crest may be pretty will lit at night most mountains aren't. :eek:
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This is true, but in most places across the US, most mountains don't stick up to 11,000ft. In most places, at 11,000, you'll be well above any mountains. Its all part of preflight. See a mountain on the sectional? Go over or well wide of it. By lighted, I mean towers. There have been times where I can't find towers during the day. Never happens at night.

Lets not forget how much easier it is to spot other aircraft at night too.
 
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NickDBrennan said:
I agree. But a student is not likely to be flying over open water tho. I also conceeded the point that dark night over water is not a good idea.
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You don't need open water to create a very disorienting illusion at night, over sparsely populated areas (try western South Dakota sometime) with no moon and a little haze it's amazingly easy to mentally swap the sky for the ground. There are lots of reasons why night flight can be more difficult and that's but one. The biggest (already mentioned) IMO is simply that you cannot see clouds or fog unless there's a lot of ambient light (moonlight or man made). VFR flying in the dark can be done safely under the right conditions, but precious little training and experience in discerning good night conditions from bad is required by today's FAA mandated PPL sylabus. Strangely, this is emphasized in the commercial programs.

There have been times where I can't find towers during the day. Never happens at night.
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Never?, try finding one that's unlit at night.
 
smigaldi said:
You got me with this one. By training do you mean a non instrument rated person? If so when is solo IFR training in VMC allowed? You would still need a CFII and that by definition means NOT solo.

Or did you mean that at night a person can not file IFR in IMC to do some approaches? If so please explain more I am not familiar with any restrictions on the reasons a properly rated person may file IFR.

BTW I did almost all of my IFR training at night, I even did my instrument check ride at night.
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Yes, a non-instrument rated pilot was what I was referring to. Last I checked, an IFR rated pilot and IR aircraft could go under the hood in VMC in Class G airspace while solo (or even fly IFR in actual IMC without filing) although it was rarely used by anyone.

Perhaps Captain Ron or someone totally up on the FARs can elucidate...
 
Alan said:
Night flying is certainly more hazardous. The black hole illusion is a big concern.
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Oooo, that's RWY-32 at KRDU at night. You come in over Umstead Park. It's the most difficult landing at RDU. I've lost the runway once on final in VFR conditions. I've learned to "fly" the VOR or GPS approach even if VFR.
 
I enjoy flying at night and that's all I'll be doing next week. While all of the flying is low level, half of it will be over water. Sometimes it's not too bad, that is when where is a overcast to help reflect light. Moonless nights over water and offshore is a real workout for your IFR skills. I don't think night flying is any more dangerous than anything else but you need to be trained properly for it and practice it when you can.
 
so you guys saying that since my next half dozen (or more) flights will be at night I'll be a better pilot when this is all over (or, better given that I still HAVEN'T SOLOED YET)
 
woodstock said:
so you guys saying that since my next half dozen (or more) flights will be at night I'll be a better pilot when this is all over (or, better given that I still HAVEN'T SOLOED YET)
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When it's all over, if you've lived through it yes, you'll be a better pilot.
 
woodstock said:
so you guys saying that since my next half dozen (or more) flights will be at night I'll be a better pilot when this is all over (or, better given that I still HAVEN'T SOLOED YET)
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Sure.

I did a lot of my instrument training at night. Made the foggles more effective.

Regardless, my belief is that any flight training that pushes your limits and makes you grow in knowledge will make you a better pilot. So, yes, it will.
 
woodstock said:
so you guys saying that since my next half dozen (or more) flights will be at night I'll be a better pilot when this is all over (or, better given that I still HAVEN'T SOLOED YET)
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Or you'll be over confident and make a poor decision after your training that will have dire consequences. Just be on guard, 6 flights does not an expert make. Learn the right lesson and you will be the a better pilot.

Scott
CP-ASEL-IA, 400 hours and still learning
 
NickDBrennan said:
I still don't see how its more dangerous, or even "like IMC" to fly at night. The airplane flies the same. Obstructions are lighted, and therefore easier to see. Airports can be seen from many many many miles out.

I've never had a problem finding the horizon, and a quick double check of the AI and TC to verify straight and level can be done during day or night.
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Nick, you live in the land of mostly great vis. Remember the vis at Gastons? That vis at night is legal, but pretty damned fool hardy unless you have the IR experience.

I love flying at night, but keep it to just local puttering around lest I accidently run into IMC. After the IR, I plan on having some fun XC's at night...
 
NickDBrennan said:
I still don't see how its more dangerous, or even "like IMC" to fly at night. The airplane flies the same. Obstructions are lighted, and therefore easier to see. Airports can be seen from many many many miles out.

I've never had a problem finding the horizon, and a quick double check of the AI and TC to verify straight and level can be done during day or night.

BTW - anyone ever fly at night, and use one of those little tiny towns as a checkpoint that absolutely cannot be seen during the day?

I'll give ya - don't fly over open water without due caution. It took JFK Jr, and many other pilot's lives as well.
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Clear nights certainly don't count as much towards "like IFR" but the illusions are still there to deal with. Go up a few times in the conditions described by others in this thread and you'll soon see what we mean.
 
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