i am a student pilot cited for a DUI and it was dismissed.

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As I said earlier, these DUI posts are pretty scary.

They're also sad. Sad to see someone's dream of professional flying most likely coming to an end.

They are also really infuriating. Infuriating to see the "everybody does it" or "we all make mistakes" comments that eventually arrive. I'm not even sure the original posters understand the severity of the situation. There's very little "I've made a terrible mistake" but plenty of "how can I beat this wrap?"

Do we all make mistakes? I sure do. But never one of this magnitude. And if I had, you'd better believe it would be a life changing event. One that would mean facing the consequences.

I don't get the sense these OPs see it that way. The attitude is more, "I only drink every-so-often" or "I didn't get charged." Again, scary.

When I was in high school*, my Mom was hit by a drunk. Hit her square-car to car as he was driving down the wrong side of the road. It's a miracle she survived.

I'm sure many others here have similar stories.

* 20 years ago for those concerned with us "old folks."
 
Unreg: I have a guy who is about five more years along in his career than you when he had a SINGLE DUI, a big one (>.20). He is now about to become a Chief Pilot at his 25 member 7 turbine part 135 organization. He has been sober for two years and "gets it" and is a C-560 captain. He is one of the most productive employees in his organization, writing the 135 manuals for FSDO approval, and is one of three typed in everything the organization has. I'd go to sleep in the back of the airplane when he flies.

He lived the weekend at the Univesity "shots with friends" lifestyle. He was down for just the period I told you, shortened because he entered a sobriety-tested period immediately and did not wait for the three months for the revocation of his medical to occur. So his employer tolerated his being down for 4 months when he could have just fired him (12 weeks family/maternity leave is all you get, and he didn't even have that because his organizaiton only had 19 employees at the time of his event). So when he was grounded by FAA, he was already proveably sober for about three months. Your letter is coming. it will be a demand for evaluation, and thirty day notice. Get CRACKING.

He was smart and didn't waste a day.
You....I'm not so sure about.

Get on a random program NOW. When school's out, go for a month to Valley Hope or Hazelden, and get the clock running.

...or go flip burgers.
 
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ClimbnSink said:
I find the old guy moralizing stuff funny, when you guys were young and caught drunk driving the cops told you drive home and stay home for the day or they would tell your parents. That doesn't make it ok, and maybe it wasn't anyone here, but your age group drove drunk far more then these 'problem' kids.
Click to expand...

I'm 36 and I've known for my entire adult life that DUI is a life changing event. I know 10 guys my age who've gotten one and all understand that #2 comes with severe consequences outside of anything to do with aviation. IMHO, I can understand(not necessarily forgive) the first, but the second is rightly inexcusable. Extraordinarily stupid for those with aspirations of a career in aviation. Sorry.
 
bbchien said:
Well, odds are you will not get it. Even though you beat the second DUI, the agency requires you report the second arrest on the upcoming medical. Plus, they have the record that you were arrested for DUI on the state tapes as of 60 days after the arrest. That will trigger the requirement for you to send in the officer's report of your described behavior, and ALL the court papers. Since it's pretty clear you didn't blow, they will treat is as if you had 0.15. There, they will see you have tolerance (the ability to operate a vehicle even though intoxicated, see more, below). This then gets treated as two alcohol related public events.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...m/ame/guide/app_process/app_history/item18/v/

Never mind the 61.15 requirements. Those are additional. Your CFI did you a favor. Even if you only had an administrative 15 day license suspension, you need to make the Airman Security report in writing, or you lose your Pilot cert(s). Try getting hired with a suspension on your record at age 21. Not gonna ever happen.

The requirement for certification at any class with two in the past five years is "non-HIMS" HIMS (as you are not employed by a company with a HIMS program).

(1) 28 day inpatient rehab, outpatient granted under extreme waiver conditions only. Even outpatient, is 8 hours/day 5 days a week no cellphone, miss/late a day and you fail.
(2) Sponsorship by a HIMS AME.
(3) Monthly random drug/Ethanol testing- the HIMS AME runs the program. They call you pee, you pay- about $60 per hit on a visa card. Fail to pee in the subsequent 24 hours, it's scored as a positive. You're done.
(3) Montly visits at least to a drug and alcohol counselor
(4) 2 AA meetings per week, signed off.
(5) Six months minimum, down. That would be late September at BEST.
(6) Montly visits to the HIMS AME for evaluation.
(7) Evaluation by a HMS psychiatrist and by a HIMS neuro psychologist, at month 7 IF YOUR SPONSOR THINKS YOU ARE READY. If you go too soon you just blew $4,000.

Special issuance 6 months at a time, granted with concurrence of the Federal Air Surgeon (this takes a while). Then you continue with
(8) Random drug testing- 2years
(9) Montly visits to the sponsoring AME. He can space this out to every other month if you have made progress and "get it".
(10) Continued 2/wk AA. By now you will HATE AA if you are "faking" getting it, and you will fail.
(11) At least monthly visits to the Drug and Alcohol Counselor for evaluation.
(12) One year return to the Psychiatrist and psychologist- probably half as much $$s this time.
(13)Continue second year of Special issuance. Program same as first year.
At the end of two years you may be considered for release with recommendation from everyone in your after care probram.
TWO events even if you beat the recent one it, is considered cause to evaluate you for chronic repetitive abuse, and is by definition chronic repetitive abuse unteil you prove it's not. The agency is goingto consider the second report as an alcohol event if the word alcohol or the description of breath or behavior even suggests its- even if you blew ZERO. And if you didn't blow, it doesn't matter, it's presumed to be 0.15. It's all in the officer's behavior description.

Never mind a guy called "rational recovery" who posts here. These are the rules. You can pi_s, dodge, and spout all you want. Or you can organize, get help, get well, and resume your pilot training after a year off. Or you can sell insurance, flip burgers, etc. Jobs in which you hold a public trust have requirements. Being a Flight Deck officer is one of them.

Very few local attornies understand the FAA's rules, and they can do nothing as this is all administrative law.

In summary, unless there is no mention of drug/alcohol behavior anywhere on the arresting officer's report (and if you were arrested for DUI, I hardly think that's going to be the case), you need make alternate career plans or take a year off of school. No way are you going to make August.

SERIOUSLY Start looking for a job. Or change majors to engineering. But in either case, you need to take control, and get help. HIMS is help (but you dont belong to an organization with such a program), so we do Non-HIMS - HIMS. Google it.

Lastly, for a THIRD class and a THIRD only, you can stand down for two years, prove abstinence and recovery for TWO years (random testing, negative Driver's license f/u) show recovery activities (AA signoffs, letters from bosses, etc), and get reissued a THIRD, but ONLY a THIRD until five years from the latest offense.

If this means you have to return to live at home, tell me where home is, and send a real email, I'll tell you where the resources are.
Click to expand...

Can we make this a sticky post or all future "I got another DUI, but still want to be a professional pilot" questions? This should be mandatory reading for every student enrolled in a professional pilot flight program. Alcohol and vehicle operation don't mix, on the ground or in the air. Ever.
 
^^^^Oh no, not this again :mad2:
(That's to the unreg)
 
OKay. Whomever the unreg (#2?) was responsible for post 48, you just got the string closed....that was pretty gutless. Post with your usual ID (which probably doesn't tell us anything, either!) if you're going to abuse someone. But, "Anon" is not for hurling trash.

I mean, we're trying to help this hapless kid out, here....
 
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ClimbnSink said:
I find the old guy moralizing stuff funny, when you guys were young and caught drunk driving the cops told you drive home and stay home for the day or they would tell your parents. That doesn't make it ok, and maybe it wasn't anyone here, but your age group drove drunk far more then these 'problem' kids.
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Well sonny...

I'm not proud to say that I've done some rotten things in my life. In the first half, specifically. There's a reason I chose my signature tag line.

But one thing I never did was drive drunk. I may have done my share of rotten things, but I didn't want to add vehicular assault or homicide to the list. Also, I've always had jobs that required me to drive, and I didn't want to lose my license. So even if I really did feel "okay to drive," but was legally over the limit (0.04 in my case because I had a CDL for many years), I didn't drive. The math is pretty simple, and I added a bit of a safety margin just to make sure.

It had nothing to do with moralizing. It had to do with avoiding an act because there were bad consequences associated with that act. It was common sense and self interest, even if nothing else.

A pilot needs to exercise better-than-average judgment, and DUI simply doesn't articulate that. It has nothing to do with moralizing.

-Rich
 
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douglas393 said:
Can the moderators stop the unreg posts concerning DUI's. This seems to be becoming a trend, and the answers never change. Rant over. I know if it bothers me do not open the post, but that would be too easy.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, reading these threads is voluntary. You can also click on "Thread Tools" and "Ignore this Thread."

The search function here is not very effective. Maybe it would help to have a sticky with links to previous DUI threads.
 
Palmpilot said:
As far as I know, reading these threads is voluntary. You can also click on "Thread Tools" and "Ignore this Thread."

The search function here is not very effective. Maybe it would help to have a sticky with links to previous DUI threads.
Click to expand...
It would, though each one's situation is somewhat different. This OP for example refuses to admit that in the eyes of the medical branch, he has a second evaluable event that is mandatory for reporting. And most of these sorts don't recognize that they REALLY do have a problem.

I do have to observe, though, that this board has attracted its share of young guys on the brink of losing it all....
 
bbchien said:
Well, odds are you will not get it. Even though you beat the second DUI, the agency requires you report the second arrest on the upcoming medical. Plus, they have the record that you were arrested for DUI on the state tapes as of 60 days after the arrest. That will trigger the requirement for you to send in the officer's report of your described behavior, and ALL the court papers. Since it's pretty clear you didn't blow, they will treat is as if you had 0.15. There, they will see you have tolerance (the ability to operate a vehicle even though intoxicated, see more, below). This then gets treated as two alcohol related public events.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...m/ame/guide/app_process/app_history/item18/v/

Never mind the 61.15 requirements. Those are additional. Your CFI did you a favor. Even if you only had an administrative 15 day license suspension, you need to make the Airman Security report in writing, or you lose your Pilot cert(s). Try getting hired with a suspension on your record at age 21. Not gonna ever happen.

The requirement for certification at any class with two in the past five years is "non-HIMS" HIMS (as you are not employed by a company with a HIMS program).

(1) 28 day inpatient rehab, outpatient granted under extreme waiver conditions only. Even outpatient, is 8 hours/day 5 days a week no cellphone, miss/late a day and you fail.
(2) Sponsorship by a HIMS AME.
(3) Monthly random drug/Ethanol testing- the HIMS AME runs the program. They call you pee, you pay- about $60 per hit on a visa card. Fail to pee in the subsequent 24 hours, it's scored as a positive. You're done.
(3) Montly visits at least to a drug and alcohol counselor
(4) 2 AA meetings per week, signed off.
(5) Six months minimum, down. That would be late September at BEST.
(6) Montly visits to the HIMS AME for evaluation.
(7) Evaluation by a HMS psychiatrist and by a HIMS neuro psychologist, at month 7 IF YOUR SPONSOR THINKS YOU ARE READY. If you go too soon you just blew $4,000.

Special issuance 6 months at a time, granted with concurrence of the Federal Air Surgeon (this takes a while). Then you continue with
(8) Random drug testing- 2years
(9) Montly visits to the sponsoring AME. He can space this out to every other month if you have made progress and "get it".
(10) Continued 2/wk AA. By now you will HATE AA if you are "faking" getting it, and you will fail.
(11) At least monthly visits to the Drug and Alcohol Counselor for evaluation.
(12) One year return to the Psychiatrist and psychologist- probably half as much $$s this time.
(13)Continue second year of Special issuance. Program same as first year.
At the end of two years you may be considered for release with recommendation from everyone in your after care probram.
TWO events even if you beat the recent one it, is considered cause to evaluate you for chronic repetitive abuse, and is by definition chronic repetitive abuse unteil you prove it's not. The agency is goingto consider the second report as an alcohol event if the word alcohol or the description of breath or behavior even suggests its- even if you blew ZERO. And if you didn't blow, it doesn't matter, it's presumed to be 0.15. It's all in the officer's behavior description.

Never mind a guy called "rational recovery" who posts here. These are the rules. You can pi_s, dodge, and spout all you want. Or you can organize, get help, get well, and resume your pilot training after a year off. Or you can sell insurance, flip burgers, etc. Jobs in which you hold a public trust have requirements. Being a Flight Deck officer is one of them.

Very few local attornies understand the FAA's rules, and they can do nothing as this is all administrative law.

In summary, unless there is no mention of drug/alcohol behavior anywhere on the arresting officer's report (and if you were arrested for DUI, I hardly think that's going to be the case), you need make alternate career plans or take a year off of school. No way are you going to make August.

SERIOUSLY Start looking for a job. Or change majors to engineering. But in either case, you need to take control, and get help. HIMS is help (but you dont belong to an organization with such a program), so we do Non-HIMS - HIMS. Google it.

Lastly, for a THIRD class and a THIRD only, you can stand down for two years, prove abstinence and recovery for TWO years (random testing, negative Driver's license f/u) show recovery activities (AA signoffs, letters from bosses, etc), and get reissued a THIRD, but ONLY a THIRD until five years from the latest offense.

If this means you have to return to live at home, tell me where home is, and send a real email, I'll tell you where the resources are.
Click to expand...

This is totally inappropriate and false. Many pilots have recovered without AA using Rational Recovery. The supreme court has ruled that AA is "unequivocally religious" and that forced AA is an invasion of conscience. Though AA works for some people, OTHER options must be available as an alternative. Being a good doctor means giving informed consent Dr. Bruce. I realize you have not engaged in a doctor-patient relationship with OP but you should still behave professionally.

Informed consent means informing the individual that other avenues do exist. You are framing AA as the ONLY option, which is not the reality and it is not truthful to say because the FAA is not exempt from the supreme court.
 
ScottM said:
I may be an old guy now. But I was never caught drinking and driving, ever.

BTW in my unit in the Air Force one of our guys killed a person when he was drink-driving. It was an international incident as it happened overseas and the person killed was a local. Our unit, our wing and our base adopted a zero tolerance for alcohol incidents. Our unit started a program where we carried a promissory card and made a deal with the all the local taxi companies. If we presented it, it would be honored and paid the next day out of squadron funds. There was not excuse for ever driving. We all even had the CO home phone number and pager number. He would come get us if he had too. I learned then that this is real serious and to never risk it.

BTW one guy in our unit did get a DUI post all of these changes. He lost his flying status, his security clearance and he spent 30 day in confinement, lost rank and finished his career in the motor pool driving us in the crew bus to the airplane. While I never had an inclination to drink and drive this made it for me a very large no-no. If I have more than one drink, I don't drive.

So don't go and rationalize poor judgement by saying we all did it and got away with it. The fact is we did not all do it. Many of us are responsible and have been for a long time.
Click to expand...


Love this. Guy used to drive drunk but never got caught. Holier than OP though!

bonus: Guy holds himself in esteem for taking a taxi's home after a night out drinking. Wow, I am so proud of you!
 
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Rational Recovery said:
This is totally inappropriate and false. Many pilots have recovered without AA using Rational Recovery. The supreme court has ruled that AA is "unequivocally religious" and that forced AA is an invasion of conscience. Though AA works for some people, OTHER options must be available as an alternative. Being a good doctor means giving informed consent Dr. Bruce. I realize you have not engaged in a doctor-patient relationship with OP but you should still behave professionally.

Informed consent means informing the individual that other avenues do exist. You are framing AA as the ONLY option, which is not the reality and it is not truthful to say because the FAA is not exempt from the supreme court.
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Rational, ST_U. This is not about my offering options. this is about getting the guy recertified. You KNOW that FAA doens't care for your stuff. Rail all you want in antoher sting, but I'm trying to lead this kid to where he can continue in professional aviation. You are jsut tyring to push your stupid point. Yes there are other routes....NONE of which lead to certification.

This is not about doctor patient relationship. This is CERTIFICATION ADVICE, and it is accurate. He wants an upperclass certificate. FAA demands proven ABSTINENCE for that. 3rd isNOT what the guy wants. So you are acting as the all knowing "righteous fool" need to show me how that is not true.

To the OP, like I said, this guy would showup with the handle "rational recovery....". YGBFSM. There's always some guy polluting a forum.
Rational Recovery said:
Love this. Guy used to drive drunk but never got caught. Holier than OP though!
Click to expand...
And that, is the pot calling the kettle black....
 
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bbchien said:
Rational, ST_U. This is not about my offering options. this is about getting the guy recertified. You KNOW that FAA doens't care for your stuff. Rail all you want in antoher sting, but I'm trying to lead this kid to where he can continue in professional aviation. You are jsut tyring to push your stupid point. Yes there are other routes....NONE of which lead to certification.

This is not about doctor patient relationship. This is CERTIFICATION ADVICE, and it is accurate. He wants an upperclass certificate. FAA demands proven ABSTINENCE for that. 3rd isNOT what the guy wants. So you are acting as the all knowing "righteous fool" need to show me how that is not true.

To the OP, like I said, this guy would showup with the handle "rational recovery....". YGBFSM. There's always some guy polluting a forum.
And that, is the pot calling the kettle black....
Click to expand...

This is FALSE for 1st class as well. PROOF below. Let's remember it's not just about certification, it is about safety. AA is ineffective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKG_VSJ_W1U
 
Rational Recovery said:
This is FALSE for 1st class as well. PROOF below. Let's remember it's not just about certification, it is about safety. AA is ineffective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKG_VSJ_W1U
Click to expand...
You consider that proof? That's a guy talking.....ROTLMAO. You're worse than I thought...HIMS (which incorporates AA, BOAF) is not ineffective. It has lost 18 airmen over 35 years, for a success rate of over 99% for average 20+ year remission.

You're a danged fool and the worst part is you advertise it.
 
bbchien said:
You consider that proof? That's a guy talking.....ROTLMAO. You're worse than I thought...HIMS (which incorporates AA, BOAF) is not ineffective. It has lost 18 airmen over 35 years, for a success rate of over 99% for average 20+ year remission.

You're a danged fool and the worst part is you advertise it.
Click to expand...

It is proof because that is a licensed 1st class medical pilot flying for the airlines. It is proof that you can be CERTIFIED without AA.

You said AA is the only option for certification.
 
Rational Recovery said:
It is proof because that is a licensed 1st class medical pilot flying for the airlines. It is proof that you can be CERTIFIED without AA.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but what he doesn't say is unlike Rational recovery, he had to show and prove abstinence. That's not RR working, that's Random urien testing working. You fail, you don't fly. You are confusing RR, AA and HIMS.

Leave out what is convenient.
Hey dude, I'm gone. You're a moron and i don't have enought energy for the likes of you.
 
bbchien said:
This is CERTIFICATION ADVICE, and it is NOT accurate. He wants an upperclass certificate. FAA demands proven ABSTINENCE for that. 3rd isNOT what the guy wants. So you are acting as the all knowing "righteous fool" need to show me how that is not true.
Click to expand...

fixed that for you.
 
bbchien said:
Yeah, but what he doesn't say is unlike Rational recovery, he had to show and prove abstinence. That's not RR working, that's Random urien testing working. You fail, you don't fly. You are confusing RR, AA and HIMS.

Leave out what is convenient.
Hey dude, I'm gone. You're a moron and i don't have enought energy for the likes of you.
Click to expand...

You presented AA as mandatory for certification. The fact is that it is NOT. That is not truthful.
 
bbchien said:
Yeah, but what he doesn't say is unlike Rational recovery, he had to show and prove abstinence. That's not RR working, that's Random urien testing working. You fail, you don't fly. You are confusing RR, AA and HIMS.

Leave out what is convenient.
Hey dude, I'm gone. You're a moron and i don't have enought energy for the likes of you.
Click to expand...

That is extremely offensive to me. I have been to Mexico three times since RR and have not had a drink even though it would have been extremely easy and nobody would have ever found out. IT WORKS for me, and for you to state otherwise is an insult to my dignity.
 
Rational Recovery said:
Love this. Guy used to drive drunk but never got caught. Holier than OP though!

bonus: Guy holds himself in esteem for taking a taxi's home after a night out drinking. Wow, I am so proud of you!
Click to expand...

There's drinking and driving, then there's getting caught drinking and driving. My guess is quite a few people have been a teensy bit over the limit and gotten home a time or two without consequence. Not saying it's a good thing. But statistics say that if you get caught, you're doing it more often than the guys who don't get caught. I'm not defending have one more glass of wine and driving home once every 5-10 years, but if you're caught, the probability of it being a rare occurrence would be well...a rare occurrence.
 
Rational Recovery said:
fixed that for you.
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Dude you can say antthing you want about recovering with "continuing to drink but in so called control". At FAA, we have abstinence enforced by randoms. You can believe anything you want. Just don't mislead the kid.

Bye!
 
bbchien said:
Dude you can say antthing you want about recovering with "continuing to drink but in so called control". At FAA, we have abstinence enforced by randoms. You can believe anything you want. Just don't mislead the kid.

Bye!
Click to expand...

I NEVER said anything about moderate drinking, or controlled drinking. RR is strictly about abstinence. One relapse and you are banned for life from RR.
 
Looks like this thread really hits a nerve with "Rational Recovery".
 
Funny. So tempted to have some fun, but instead I'll rest on my faith in humanity that anyone capable of following aeromedical advice can figure out the best source for themselves.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Funny. So tempted to have some fun, but instead I'll rest on my faith in humanity that anyone capable of following aeromedical advice can figure out the best source for themselves.
Click to expand...

Ahh, and I will keep faith that the OP can differentiate between the concept of necessary and sufficient. Hard to believe someone got through medical school without knowing the difference.
 
Rational r how many people have you steered from alcohol offenses to class one medicals?
 
What is this rr cult you speak of? Are the chocks hot? Do I have to stop drinking to join? Let ,e guess rr is an mlm
 
i guess at one of his meetings, there will never serve pie for refreshment, for that would be irrational.
 
You only have to go to the Rational Recovery webpage and FAQ to see what its all about--$$$--start at the lower levels for free and then give us money for books, a membership subscription and then elevate yourself to teleconferences. All for low, low prices:

"How do I get started in AVRT-based recovery?
There are four levels of AVRT-based recovery, ranging from free of charge to some very modest charges for goods and services, all leading to immediate, total recovery, in this order:

1. You should start with the free materials, including the left column in the site map page. That is often sufficient to get a grip and get a new life after recovery. First, review the home page articles, Getting Started in Rational Recovery, Quick Start on AVRT, and The Barest Essentials of AVRT. Then, take the Crash Course on AVRT® and be sure to read the books, The Art of AVRT and Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction.

2. The Rational Recovery bookstore also contains a number of excellent AVRT® learning materials. Get the professionally-produced DVDs and other multimedia productions at the Rational Recovery bookstore. They are possibly the best values in the addiction recovery field, setting forth simple instructions and in vivo demonstrations of AVRT® in real-life practice.

3. Subscribe for a few months to the Membership Area of this website. Here, you will have access to a large database of articles and program elements, including the Rational Recovery Discussion Forums. Inside, you can look in on others learning AVRT® and present your questions and concerns. Of first importance, is the Advanced Crash Course on AVRT®, which is a more sophisticated version of the Crash Course on AVRT®, above.

4. AVRTeleConference is five 1-hour sessions of direct instruction on AVRT-based recovery conducted by Jack Trimpey via standard telephone service or by FaceTime connection on a webcam/Mac, iMac, iPhone, or iPad. The schedule is usually two sessions the first week, one session each of the next two weeks, and a final, closeout session a few months down the line, summarizing the experience and implications of life after recovery. Family members usually sit in to witness AVRT and get answers to their questions. They share no burden of change other than to set a limit on how much longer they will tolerate the addiction."
 
Gmanattack said:
You only have to go to the Rational Recovery webpage and FAQ to see what its all about--$$$--start at the lower levels for free and then give us money for books, a membership subscription and then elevate yourself to teleconferences. All for low, low prices:
Click to expand...

And you would suggest as a cheaper alternative the $90,000 of 3 month inpatient treatment? During that 3 months you cannot work either.

That extra stuff is all voluntary and is not forced on anyone if they don't want it, the free course on AVRT is enough to break an addiction for life.
 
Unregistered said:
i'm in a part 141 program going for a bachelors in professional pilot technology! i have a first class medical and i had already told the faa about the first one which happened 4 years ago and just got my medical in october, so just my luck i got arressted for another one in jan but it got dismissed. i was ordered by my instructor to tell the faa and now i'm just waiting for a response. in order for me to contiued in my college degree i need to have my pilots license by august 1. and i am ready for my oral now
Click to expand...



You are not trying to be some sort of painter or sheetrock guy here, your actions actually reflect on YOU and YOU will eventually be responsible for the lives of others.

So either buck up and fix the actual problem, or just go do something else. The FAA is trying to administer SAFETY, and SAFETY only, so what would you expect of them if the number potential pilots is not in grave danger?
 
Rational Recovery said:
Ahh, and I will keep faith that the OP can differentiate between the concept of necessary and sufficient. Hard to believe someone got through medical school without knowing the difference.
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So you've been to medical school and returned how many pilots to service? Let have it out front.

RR. Just so others know how much BS this is, I have a chief pilot at a 135 operation who I got done with outpatient intensive recovery, AA, and one visit to the psych.

AA is free.
RR is not.
HIMS has a track record, and it's very good. 32 years.
RR doesn't have squat.

So sell your videos and DVDs. but don't mislead the kid. You're a tragedy. RR will not get him recertified.

Mod's delete my cookie. I'm outta here. Folks know where to get me-
 
bbchien said:
So you've been to medical school and returned how many pilots to service? Let have it out front.

RR. Just so others know how much BS this is, I have a chief pilot at a 135 operation who I got done with outpatient intensive recovery, AA, and one visit to the psych.

AA is free.
RR is not.
HIMS has a track record, and it's very good. 32 years.
RR doesn't have squat.

So sell your videos and DVDs. but don't mislead the kid. You're a tragedy. RR WILL get him recertified.

Mod's delete my cookie. I'm outta here. Folks know where to get me-
Click to expand...

Fixed it for you again. There is more than one way to recovery.

RR is free, you never have to buy anything. Though AA may be free, HIMS is very very expensive. And you continue to lie and mislead, anything you have to pay for RR is HIMS related expense, NOT RR related. Psych, urine tests, any monitoring costs, etc...

I cannot even believe you have the fortitude to criticize the small optional costs associated with RR, and at the same time recommend $90000 absurd and ineffective stays at hotels, i.e. addiction treatment centers.
 
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Rational Recovery said:
Fixed it for you again. There is more than one way to recovery.
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But there is only one way to certification. HIMS (for revenue class certificates, 2nd and 1st,w hcih is what the kid wants). What's your problem, this was about helping the kid out. You never mention him once- it's all about you you you.
RR is free, you never have to buy anything. Though AA may be free, HIMS is very very expensive. And you continue to lie and mislead, anything you have to pay for RR is HIMS related expense, NOT RR related. Psych, urine tests, any monitoring costs, etc...
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Nah. RR has no track record. So if you want to compare it to HIMS, I ask you what the track record is for you to say "sufficient". I posted HIMS' record.

If you cannot post it, well then you must be still alcoholic because you don't understand the word "sufficient". This string is about trying to help a kid. Or at least it was. You are all about unsubstantiated attack. You can't get the kid recertified, now can you?

And the saddest part about your behavior is that I don't have time your your c_ap and so I'm gone. Keep crapping. There's always one in the crowd that spoils it for everyone else. And you're it.
 
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