i am a student pilot cited for a DUI and it was dismissed.

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I have only been convicted once and it was 4 years ago. I was well below .15 what do i do and what is the timeline before i can get my medical valid again?
 
1) I take it you have yet to submit for a formal medical?

2) When you were arrested/convicted, did you blow or was blood labs involved?


Dr. Bruce will be along with the formal list of items. What ever he says to gather, go do that without any argument.

Regular AME's will need to defer to OKC, meaning it will be 10-12 weeks from the physical before you receive notice or issuance.

HIMS AME's (see this list) are granted the improved hutzpuh to increase chance of office issuance *if* you have followed the directions Dr. Bruce will out line *and* you are within the guidelines of issuance.

Again, your best shot is to work directly with a HIMS AME (like Dr. Bruce), follow their directions without argument, and get it done.
 

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First get some help for your alcohol problem. Two DUIs is two too many. Until you have that taken care of you might want to stay out of the sky.
 
ScottM said:
First get some help for your alcohol problem. Two DUIs is two too many. Until you have that taken care of you might want to stay out of the sky.
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To give Unreg some credit, it appears this might be "the only". But, yeah, he does need to make the appropriate lifestyle change and never approach the cliff edge again.
 
For my info --- even if a DUI case is dismissed by the courts, the FAA will still want to know all the pertinent facts of the incident, right?
 
AggieMike88 said:
To give Unreg some credit, it appears this might be "the only". But, yeah, he does need to make the appropriate lifestyle change and never approach the cliff edge again.
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I see two DUIs. The one he was "convicted" of and the one in the thread title that he says was dismissed. That is why I am concerned that he has a real problem. Maybe the OP does have only one DUI, but he does not quite have his story straight yet. Which would also be a concern.

But then I think even one DUI shows an incredible lack of judgement and an unwillingness to understand one's limits. TO me, that is someone crying out for some help and they should seek it before flying again.
 
i'm in a part 141 program going for a bachelors in professional pilot technology! i have a first class medical and i had already told the faa about the first one which happened 4 years ago and just got my medical in october, so just my luck i got arressted for another one in jan but it got dismissed. i was ordered by my instructor to tell the faa and now i'm just waiting for a response. in order for me to contiued in my college degree i need to have my pilots license by august 1. and i am ready for my oral now
 
Unregistered said:
i'm in a part 141 program going for a bachelors in professional pilot technology! i have a first class medical and i had already told the faa about the first one which happened 4 years ago and just got my medical in october, so just my luck i got arressted for another one in jan but it got dismissed. i was ordered by my instructor to tell the faa and now i'm just waiting for a response. in order for me to contiued in my college degree i need to have my pilots license by august 1. and i am ready for my oral now
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luck?
 
the first one was 4 years ago, and i'll get help if thats what it takes i just need to know what i gotta do to reinstate my medical. if anybody can give me some advice on what the faa is gonna look for?
 
Unregistered said:
i'm in a part 141 program going for a bachelors in professional pilot technology! i have a first class medical and i had already told the faa about the first one which happened 4 years ago and just got my medical in october, so just my luck i got arressted for another one in jan but it got dismissed. i was ordered by my instructor to tell the faa and now i'm just waiting for a response. in order for me to contiued in my college degree i need to have my pilots license by august 1. and i am ready for my oral now
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Give your instructor a tip...because he saved you a WORLD of hurt by making you send a report in.

Then go and read 14 CFR 51.15(e)

I hope your report was in within the required 60 days of the event.
 
Can the moderators stop the unreg posts concerning DUI's. This seems to be becoming a trend, and the answers never change. Rant over. I know if it bothers me do not open the post, but that would be too easy.
 
I'll wait for Bruce's official comment, but I'm remembering 2 DUI's within 5 years makes you well SOL. And if there is any hope, it's a long painful and expensive road.

So, Unreg, you might have really done it to yourself. What really makes this a sad tale is that this is a perfect case of "you should have known better", being in a professional course plus going through the reporting of the first one.

Be prepared for guidance from Dr. Bruce, but not much support from the gallery.


@ScottM: Add a plate of cheese fries to the beverage count might owe you someday for catching the two-fer
 
AggieMike88 said:
I'll wait for Bruce's official comment, but I'm remembering 2 DUI's within 5 years makes you well SOL. And if there is any hope, it's a long painful and expensive road.

So, Unreg, you might have really done it to yourself. What really makes this a sad tale is that this is a perfect case of "you should have known better", being in a professional course plus going through the reporting of the first one.

Be prepared for guidance from Dr. Bruce, but not much support from the gallery.


@ScottM: Add a plate of cheese fries to the beverage count might owe you someday for catching the two-fer
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I guess I am one of the peanut gallery, and what gets my goat is how the majority of the unreg DUI posters seem to have no clue how serious DUI is and totally gloss over that little issue. I am not going to apologize for my lack of empathy. If you can keep your certificate, and medical despite your DUI great, but if you cannot I am not going to shed any tears.
 
douglas393 said:
I guess I am one of the peanut gallery, and what gets my goat is how the majority of the unreg DUI posters seem to have no clue how serious DUI is and totally gloss over that little issue.
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No disagreement with what I've highlighted.

[thread drift warning] Reviewing my training background, I'm willing point fingers at the information provided to me (or lack there of) during my private training. About all I recall about alcohol was the question for the written on the "bottle the throttle" FAR. No advice or counselling was provided about "avoid these lifestyle choices because it's a load of butthurt if you are caught". I had to participate in these various online forums to gain that knowledge.

IMO; there is such a rush to focus on stick/rudder, and dumping in only enough knowledge to pass the written and oral exams, that key items like avoid alcohol, DUI's, know this and this about admin law, etc, all get left behind and are landmines and bear traps just waiting to snag us.

Difficult thing to change en mass. But it is something I will definitely be sharing with any student airmen within my circle of influence.
 
AggieMike88 said:
For my info --- even if a DUI case is dismissed by the courts, the FAA will still want to know all the pertinent facts of the incident, right?
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If the case is dismissed without anything that counts as a "motor vehicle action":
(1) A conviction after November 29, 1990, for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug;
(2) The cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle after November 29, 1990, for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or
(3) The denial after November 29, 1990, of an application for a license to operate a motor vehicle for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.
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...then the 60-day 61.15 report to the FAA Civil Aviation Security folks is not required. However, the arrest still must be reported on the next FAA medical application.
 
I'm shocked by the number of "I got a DUI, how do I keep my medical" posts that appear on this site. Scary.
 
douglas393 said:
Can the moderators stop the unreg posts concerning DUI's. This seems to be becoming a trend, and the answers never change. Rant over. I know if it bothers me do not open the post, but that would be too easy.
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The first step is to admit you have a problem...
 
Tony_Fletcher said:
I'm shocked by the number of "I got a DUI, how do I keep my medical" posts that appear on this site. Scary.
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Could be the result of Google searches on the subject rather than an actual increase in offenses by pilots or wannabes.
 
Well, odds are you will not get it. Even though you beat the second DUI, the agency requires you report the second arrest on the upcoming medical. Plus, they have the record that you were arrested for DUI on the state tapes as of 60 days after the arrest. That will trigger the requirement for you to send in the officer's report of your described behavior, and ALL the court papers. Since it's pretty clear you didn't blow, they will treat is as if you had 0.15. There, they will see you have tolerance (the ability to operate a vehicle even though intoxicated, see more, below). This then gets treated as two alcohol related public events.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...m/ame/guide/app_process/app_history/item18/v/

Never mind the 61.15 requirements. Those are additional. Your CFI did you a favor. Even if you only had an administrative 15 day license suspension, you need to make the Airman Security report in writing, or you lose your Pilot cert(s). Try getting hired with a suspension on your record at age 21. Not gonna ever happen.

The requirement for certification at any class with two in the past five years is "non-HIMS" HIMS (as you are not employed by a company with a HIMS program).

(1) 28 day inpatient rehab, outpatient granted under extreme waiver conditions only. Even outpatient, is 8 hours/day 5 days a week no cellphone, miss/late a day and you fail.
(2) Sponsorship by a HIMS AME.
(3) Monthly random drug/Ethanol testing- the HIMS AME runs the program. They call you pee, you pay- about $60 per hit on a visa card. Fail to pee in the subsequent 24 hours, it's scored as a positive. You're done.
(3) Montly visits at least to a drug and alcohol counselor
(4) 2 AA meetings per week, signed off.
(5) Six months minimum, down. That would be late September at BEST.
(6) Montly visits to the HIMS AME for evaluation.
(7) Evaluation by a HMS psychiatrist and by a HIMS neuro psychologist, at month 7 IF YOUR SPONSOR THINKS YOU ARE READY. If you go too soon you just blew $4,000.

Special issuance 6 months at a time, granted with concurrence of the Federal Air Surgeon (this takes a while). Then you continue with
(8) Random drug testing- 2years
(9) Montly visits to the sponsoring AME. He can space this out to every other month if you have made progress and "get it".
(10) Continued 2/wk AA. By now you will HATE AA if you are "faking" getting it, and you will fail.
(11) At least monthly visits to the Drug and Alcohol Counselor for evaluation.
(12) One year return to the Psychiatrist and psychologist- probably half as much $$s this time.
(13)Continue second year of Special issuance. Program same as first year.
At the end of two years you may be considered for release with recommendation from everyone in your after care probram.
TWO events even if you beat the recent one it, is considered cause to evaluate you for chronic repetitive abuse, and is by definition chronic repetitive abuse unteil you prove it's not. The agency is goingto consider the second report as an alcohol event if the word alcohol or the description of breath or behavior even suggests its- even if you blew ZERO. And if you didn't blow, it doesn't matter, it's presumed to be 0.15. It's all in the officer's behavior description.

Never mind a guy called "rational recovery" who posts here. These are the rules. You can pi_s, dodge, and spout all you want. Or you can organize, get help, get well, and resume your pilot training after a year off. Or you can sell insurance, flip burgers, etc. Jobs in which you hold a public trust have requirements. Being a Flight Deck officer is one of them.

Very few local attornies understand the FAA's rules, and they can do nothing as this is all administrative law.

In summary, unless there is no mention of drug/alcohol behavior anywhere on the arresting officer's report (and if you were arrested for DUI, I hardly think that's going to be the case), you need make alternate career plans or take a year off of school. No way are you going to make August.

SERIOUSLY Start looking for a job. Or change majors to engineering. But in either case, you need to take control, and get help. HIMS is help (but you dont belong to an organization with such a program), so we do Non-HIMS - HIMS. Google it.

Lastly, for a THIRD class and a THIRD only, you can stand down for two years, prove abstinence and recovery for TWO years (random testing, negative Driver's license f/u) show recovery activities (AA signoffs, letters from bosses, etc), and get reissued a THIRD, but ONLY a THIRD until five years from the latest offense.

If this means you have to return to live at home, tell me where home is, and send a real email, I'll tell you where the resources are.
 
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To add to the previous comments...the OP is focusing on "how can I get out of this mess" and the fact that the charges were dismissed. He/she should focus on "I drank and drove" and the faulty thinking which led to that.
Would you hire someone to be your live-in butler if they said they had previously been arrested for theft but the charges were dismissed? Or that he "borrowed" money from the safe at his previous job but paid it back before anyone noticed? In both cases his "record" would be clean.
More accidents (aircraft, car, boat etc) are caused by faulty thinking than anything else.
 
Tony_Fletcher said:
I'm shocked by the number of "I got a DUI, how do I keep my medical" posts that appear on this site. Scary.
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Well about 0.5 to 0.8 % of the American population over the age of 21 are arrested for DUI each year. Spread that over many years, even accounting for repeat offenders muddying the statistical waters...there are a lot of people out there who have it in their history. And yes not everyone is convicted I know.
 
AggieMike88 said:
No disagreement with what I've highlighted.

[thread drift warning] Reviewing my training background, I'm willing point fingers at the information provided to me (or lack there of) during my private training. About all I recall about alcohol was the question for the written on the "bottle the throttle" FAR. No advice or counselling was provided about "avoid these lifestyle choices because it's a load of butthurt if you are caught". I had to participate in these various online forums to gain that knowledge.

IMO; there is such a rush to focus on stick/rudder, and dumping in only enough knowledge to pass the written and oral exams, that key items like avoid alcohol, DUI's, know this and this about admin law, etc, all get left behind and are landmines and bear traps just waiting to snag us.

Difficult thing to change en mass. But it is something I will definitely be sharing with any student airmen within my circle of influence.
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I got my PPL about two years ago, and maybe because I am an older student and have some medical training I read into it more than others but current training does not gloss over the fact that there are numerous no no's with the FAA. I took the Cessna/King Course and supplemented it with the Gleim Exam Book, the ASA Oral Prep Guide, and the numerous FAA publications, and know that things like DUI, drug convictions, etc were discussed at length. AOPA also talks about this in their student area if I remember correctly.

That being said common sense would tell you that if DUI is going to affect your ability to drive, it will affect your ability to fly. But thats just me.
 
I nominate post #24 be made a sticky :yes:

All in favor?
 
alaskaflyer said:
Well about 0.5 to 0.8 % of the American population over the age of 21 are arrested for DUI each year. Spread that over many years, even accounting for repeat offenders muddying the statistical waters...there are a lot of people out there who have it in their history. And yes not everyone is convicted I know.
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Until drinking and driving holds the same stigma as getting caught with a crack pipe and hooker, it's not going anywhere. DUI has only been "bad" for about 30 years or so, mostly due to the efforts of MADD/SADD. It's still pretty much socially acceptable, and that's the problem. What we have now is a platform for politicians to campaign on by saying they'll be "tougher than the last guy" and he will and it won't do much, if any, good.
 
Make post #24 the Home page that visitors see first, with an option to download it as their screensaver.
 
thanks. i did blow and it was below .15 it was a .1. does everything still pertain to me. do i really need to go to rehab when i only go out almost once a month?
 
Damn, everyone I have EVER heard describe a DUI is 'poor me, I got caught,' and 'how do I hide it.' really? Is that what passes for being responsible today?

This is not a personal attack on the OP - but I seem to hear the same noises all the time.

And it does not matter if you 'only go out once a month.' You can kill someone else driving drunk if you only do it once.
 
Unregistered said:
thanks. i did blow and it was below .15 it was a .1. does everything still pertain to me. do i really need to go to rehab when i only go out almost once a month?
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Wow. You don't get it do you. The important number isn't 1 as is once a month. It's 2 as in pulled over twice for drinking and driving.

Bruce lays out all the facts-no bull. He gives you a roadmap to follow, and that's your response? Lame.
 
Unregistered said:
thanks. i did blow and it was below .15 it was a .1. does everything still pertain to me. do i really need to go to rehab when i only go out almost once a month?
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Glad you did blow. The evaluation may not show that you have tolerance. That is your only hope.

What the medical eval does, is compare the behavior as reproted by the arresting officer, with your performance. I can tell you that a .10 I fall down. At 0.10 you were operating a motor vehicle. So the opening evaluation is going to be from a psychiatrist (it would be with sn SAP, Substance abuse counselor, not unlike that of the courts, if you only had one). But the forensic psychs are much more careful and detailed, and they call everyone you name (they are given that permission by you, or they withdraw and you flunk).

If the forensic psychiatrist thinks you don't have chronic abuse, you can be issued on a two year sponsorship with sponsorship, monitoring program without rehab. But if there is any doubt---> full metal jacket.

I still think, since you say "since I only go out once a month" ...that is a personal statement is self indictment for chronic repetitive abuse- once a month.

I have read many a personal statement that put the pilot away. You just wrote one. You don't get it. ANY forensic psych is going to recognize that.

Start looking for a job.
 
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Unregistered said:
thanks. i did blow and it was below .15 it was a .1. does everything still pertain to me. do i really need to go to rehab when i only go out almost once a month?
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It is not about how often you join in social activities that have alcohol present. It's about having on your record 2 alcohol incidents within the past 5 years.

Your post #7 says you have one incident about 4 years ago, and the second within the last 60-70 days. That's the 2.

Ron's answer to my question about the FAA wanting to know negates the fact that incident #2 did not result in criminal court conviction. It still applies as far as the FAA is concerned.

Bruce's answer of "The requirement for certification at any class with two in the past five years is "non-HIMS" HIMS (as you are not employed by a company with a HIMS program)" and then the list of what you need to do is very clear to me that for you to retain your flying priv's, you must comply with the list.

Go back to post #2. I stated plainly that what Bruce tells you will be the path to glory, but it would not be an easy path. He and the rest of us only have time for those that aren't in denial.

I know it's difficult news to hear, but unfortunately your choices in January pretty much fried you.

Lastly, Bruce's comment just above this pretty much covers it. You still have a lot to "get" and a lot of work to do to have any hope of convincing the right people.

If you want to fly for a living, time to set flying aside, and get to work on the list Bruce provided.

Perhaps not quite what you are expecting to hear, but when it comes to the FAA medicals, there is no soft touch or pulling of punches. Just the hard cold realism.
 
In case you've missed what Bruce has said, if you have any prayer of getting a certificate, there is NO MORE DRINKING for you. Not just one, not just when I'm not flying, complete abstinence. You've demonstrated you can't self regulate.
 
I find the old guy moralizing stuff funny, when you guys were young and caught drunk driving the cops told you drive home and stay home for the day or they would tell your parents. That doesn't make it ok, and maybe it wasn't anyone here, but your age group drove drunk far more then these 'problem' kids.
 
ClimbnSink said:
I find the old guy moralizing stuff funny, when you guys were young and caught drunk driving the cops told you drive home and stay home for the day or they would tell your parents. That doesn't make it ok, and maybe it wasn't anyone here, but your age group drove drunk far more then these 'problem' kids.
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I may be an old guy now. But I was never caught drinking and driving, ever.

BTW in my unit in the Air Force one of our guys killed a person when he was drink-driving. It was an international incident as it happened overseas and the person killed was a local. Our unit, our wing and our base adopted a zero tolerance for alcohol incidents. Our unit started a program where we carried a promissory card and made a deal with the all the local taxi companies. If we presented it, it would be honored and paid the next day out of squadron funds. There was not excuse for ever driving. We all even had the CO home phone number and pager number. He would come get us if he had too. I learned then that this is real serious and to never risk it.

BTW one guy in our unit did get a DUI post all of these changes. He lost his flying status, his security clearance and he spent 30 day in confinement, lost rank and finished his career in the motor pool driving us in the crew bus to the airplane. While I never had an inclination to drink and drive this made it for me a very large no-no. If I have more than one drink, I don't drive.

So don't go and rationalize poor judgement by saying we all did it and got away with it. The fact is we did not all do it. Many of us are responsible and have been for a long time.
 
ClimbnSink said:
I find the old guy moralizing stuff funny, when you guys were young and caught drunk driving the cops told you drive home and stay home for the day or they would tell your parents. That doesn't make it ok, and maybe it wasn't anyone here, but your age group drove drunk far more then these 'problem' kids.
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As far as us old guys drinking and driving more than now, I do not know. However, that is not the issue as far as I see it. What happened years ago, has no bearing on the consequences of doing the same thing today. Cocaine was legal in the late 1800's and early 1900's, I wonder if anyone could use that as an excuse to coke up now... doubt it. As time goes on society morales and desires change. Sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad. DUI/DWI has a very different connotation and very different consequences today than it did years ago. Such is life. You want to drink and drive you will eventually be held responsible, this is not an if, it is a when. The FAA is quite clear on their view on drinking and driving. They are not telling you you cannot drink. They are telling you you cannot drink and drive, or drink and fly. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that, I think it is common sense. Nothing is going to convince me otherwise. If you do not like the rule, then petition the FAA to change it, I strongly doubt they will. With growing up comes maturity, and with maturity comes the ability to take responsibility for your actions. Such is life.
 
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