Hypothetical question regarding CFI renewal.

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scooter

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Scooter
- CFI is current and actively teaching.
- CFI is within a couple months of needing renewal.
- CFI can do a FIRC or can show the required number of check ride passes.

Q:

If the CFI chooses (for whatever reason) to do a *reinstatement* ride with a DPE for his/her renewal (while still current as a CFI), and *fails* the ride, is the CFI now no longer legal to exercise CFI privileges?
 
Not really going to happen with a working CFI. DPE is likely going to be the CFIs boss, so if he is fail worthy he should have been fired already. Maybe it is wrong but the scenario you are talking about is 'courtesy ride' not initial CFI ball busting ride. If a working CFI traveled to some DPE he had no relationship with and took a re-up ride that is sort of weird/unlikely can't see anyone doing that.
 
scooter said:
- CFI is current and actively teaching.
- CFI is within a couple months of needing renewal.
- CFI can do a FIRC or can show the required number of check ride passes.

Q:

If the CFI chooses (for whatever reason) to do a *reinstatement* ride with a DPE for his/her renewal (while still current as a CFI), and *fails* the ride, is the CFI now no longer legal to exercise CFI privileges?
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Why anyone would opt to go that route vs. a FIRC or demonstrated activity, I have no clue. :dunno:
 
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scooter said:
- CFI is current and actively teaching.
- CFI is within a couple months of needing renewal.
- CFI can do a FIRC or can show the required number of check ride passes.

Q:

If the CFI chooses (for whatever reason) to do a *reinstatement* ride with a DPE for his/her renewal (while still current as a CFI), and *fails* the ride, is the CFI now no longer legal to exercise CFI privileges?
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Since you asked the exact same question on the red board, I'll provide you with the exact same reply here: What does 61.197(a)(1)(i) say?

Hint: its not a reinstatement ride if you haven't expired.
 
Brad Z said:
Since you asked the exact same question on the red board, I'll provide you with the exact same reply here: What does 61.197(a)(1)(i) say?

Hint: its not a reinstatement ride if you haven't expired.
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And the exact same response :D

Ok, it says the CFI can pass a check ride for an existing rating on his certificate.

Original question still applies: if the CFI fails that check ride, is he now no longer current to teach (remember he went in to the ride current)?
 
scooter said:
And the exact same response :D

Ok, it says the CFI can pass a check ride for an existing rating on his certificate.

Original question still applies: if the CFI fails that check ride, is he now no longer current to teach (remember he went in to the ride current)?
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You just answered your own question!!!!!!
 
Brad Z said:
You just answered your own question!!!!!!
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I'm not seeing that. Where does it say that a current instructor, failing a practical for an existing CFI rating automatically invalidates his existing currency?
 
LDJones said:
Why anyone would opt to go that route vs. a FIRC or demonstrated activity, I have no clue. :dunno:
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Because you have enough respect for the DPE that you want to learn something from him, and this is as good an excuse as any?
 
Phoenix said:
Not really going to happen with a working CFI. DPE is likely going to be the CFIs boss, so if he is fail worthy he should have been fired already. Maybe it is wrong but the scenario you are talking about is 'courtesy ride' not initial CFI ball busting ride. If a working CFI traveled to some DPE he had no relationship with and took a re-up ride that is sort of weird/unlikely can't see anyone doing that.
Click to expand...

Where did you get the idea that most CFI's doing renewal rides were taking them with their boss? I worked under 3 different schools when I was instructing and never once worked for a DPE.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Because you have enough respect for the DPE that you want to learn something from him, and this is as good an excuse as any?
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Technically there should be no teaching, only evaluating from the DPE on a checkride. If someone really wants to learn from a DPE, hire them for an hour or two of dual.

Im not really sure why the OP would even consider renewing his CFI ticket via a checkride for a certificate he already holds. I guess it might be quicker than doing a FIRC.
 
Brad Z said:
...Im not really sure why the OP would even consider renewing his CFI ticket via a checkride for a certificate he already holds. I guess it might be quicker than doing a FIRC.
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Only if he passes the checkride. :lol:

I can't quote chapter and verse, but if you bust the ride I don't see how you can exercise the privileges of the certificate. I would seem to me that it would be like going to your AME a few months early and busting the physical. At that point you're toast until you can successfully pass the physical.
 
GCA319 said:
Where did you get the idea that most CFI's doing renewal rides were taking them with their boss? I worked under 3 different schools when I was instructing and never once worked for a DPE.
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Boss, acquaintance, guy you send students to with a pocketful of hundred dollar bills and a box of donuts. Point is it isn't the same as an initial ride and there is going to be some professional courtesy. Although we are professionals so there shouldn't be.:rofl:
 
Brad Z said:
Technically there should be no teaching, only evaluating from the DPE on a checkride.
Click to expand...

Never yet met an examiner who didn't provide substantial feedback...if youre unable to learn from a check ride, you're doing something wrong.
 
Dead Stick said:
Only if he passes the checkride. :lol:

I can't quote chapter and verse, but if you bust the ride I don't see how you can exercise the privileges of the certificate. I would seem to me that it would be like going to your AME a few months early and busting the physical. At that point you're toast until you can successfully pass the physical.
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What happens if you fail the exam at a FIRC?
 
MauleSkinner said:
What happens if you fail the exam at a FIRC?
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Then memorize this line..... "Do you want fries with that?" :lol:

I am not sure if I understand the question, if you upgrade from CFI to CFII then that counts as a renewal of your flight instructor certificate.

Just renew online.
 
MauleSkinner said:
What happens if you fail the exam at a FIRC?
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Frankly, if you can't pass an online FIRC, you probably shouldn't be instructing at all.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
MauleSkinner said:
Never yet met an examiner who didn't provide substantial feedback...if youre unable to learn from a check ride, you're doing something wrong.
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I don't disagree, but I suspect most people subject themselves to a check ride for the purposes of pursuing a new certificate or rating--not to receive additional training.

LDJones asked why anyone would opt to take a checkride versus the more traditional methods of renewing a CFI. You said that "Because you have enough respect for the DPE that you want to learn something from him, and this is as good an excuse as any?"

If you want to learn something from a DPE, schedule an hour of dual from him. Asking him to re-evaluate you in the form of a checkride, in hopes of learning something, is foolish.
 
ggroves said:
Frankly, if you can't pass an online FIRC, you probably shouldn't be instructing at all.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Agreed, but that wasn't the question.

And frankly, if you can't pass a renewal checkride, you probably shouldn't be instructing at all.

Brad Z said:
I don't disagree, but I suspect most people subject themselves to a check ride for the purposes of pursuing a new certificate or rating--not to receive additional training.

LDJones asked why anyone would opt to take a checkride versus the more traditional methods of renewing a CFI. You said that "Because you have enough respect for the DPE that you want to learn something from him, and this is as good an excuse as any?"

If you want to learn something from a DPE, schedule an hour of dual from him. Asking him to re-evaluate you in the form of a checkride, in hopes of learning something, is foolish.
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Personally, I think dropping a hundred bucks for an online FIRC and buying a couple of hours from a DPE is foolish when I can have the same outcome with just the couple of hours from the DPE.

Having taken something in excess of 60 checkrides in the last 25 years (and passing every one), I don't see a lot of risk in taking another one.

And again, do you really think someone should be instructing if they don't think they could pass a renewal checkride?
 
Since you state you can renew based on student passes, why on earth would you do it any other way? That's how I did all my renewals. Walked into FSDO, gave them the paperwork, done!

If you are questioning your own ability, why not fly with a highly respected high-time instructor away from your home base?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Agreed, but that wasn't the question.

And frankly, if you can't pass a renewal checkride, you probably shouldn't be instructing at all.


Personally, I think dropping a hundred bucks for an online FIRC and buying a couple of hours from a DPE is foolish when I can have the same outcome with just the couple of hours from the DPE.

Having taken something in excess of 60 checkrides in the last 25 years (and passing every one), I don't see a lot of risk in taking another one.

And again, do you really think someone should be instructing if they don't think they could pass a renewal checkride?
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So are you saying that you do renew your CFI via a checkride? Fair enough, I've never hear of someone doing that, but there's a first for everything.
 
Brad Z said:
So are you saying that you do renew your CFI via a checkride? Fair enough, I've never hear of someone doing that, but there's a first for everything.
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I don't, but I have in the past. I seriously doubt that it's a first.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I don't, but I have in the past. I seriously doubt that it's a first.
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For a renewal, not a reinstatement? I deal with a lot of CFI renewal issues and I've never come across someone who opted for a check ride as a means of renewal. Not saying it doesn't happen, just not very common.
 
LDJones said:
Why anyone would opt to go that route vs. a FIRC or demonstrated activity, I have no clue. :dunno:
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Might be a reasonable option for someone that doesn't meet the demonstrated activity requirements and doesn't have a whole weekend to spend on a FIRC. You can get the checkride done in less than a day.

Also might make sense if doing a FIRC is impractical for some reason - no in person one available and doesn't want to do an online one.

Not saying I would likely chose that option, but I can see how it might be the best option in a few (admittedly limited) cases.
 
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