How Windy is Too Windy for You?

jcosse

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Lenexa, KS
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Jim Cosse
It's settled down now, but the past two weeks have been pretty windy here in Kansas (big surprise, huh?). Winds were 20 kts gusting to 30+ at times. Winds were mostly from the south, so for IXD it would have been a direct headwind on 18. I didn't fly during this time, just figured why fight it when better days would be here, and yesterday was outstanding.

Anyway, my question. Forgetting crosswind, which is a separate issue, if the wind is right down the runway, what are your personal wind limits, i.e. when do you feel like you just don't want to go up?
 
One rule of thumb is not to fly in winds greater than 0.6*stall speed (you pick which one).

As to what I'll tolerate, well, that depends entirely on the aircraft. The Cessnas feel tippy compared to a Cherokee. That said, a Cessna can be operated in fairly high winds - I've seen it done but generally chose not to do it.
 
It also has a lot to do with the terrain. I landed in liberal, ks one day into a wind approaching 40kts and there was nary a bump. Around here (in the hills) you'd be tossed about like a pair of socks in the dryer. I wouldn't even attempt it here.

Btw...libersl, ks...there's an oxymoron if there ever was one. ;)
 
I don't have any wind limits, but I do look at the winds and weather and what I'm flying, and what I intend to do, and make a decision based on everything I'm seeing.

Taking a new, timid passenger for a flight might change the equation, as opposed to going out to do traffic pattern crosswind landing practice. A low altitude flight in the mountains is very different than a long cross country flight in cruise. Winds at altitude can be quite strong and have little effect, or can be relatively weak and cause a lot of turbulence. If you're in mountainous terrain it changes things. Conventional gear vs. nosegear, steerable nosewheel or tailwheel vs. non, and other factors also make a difference.

If it's hard to taxi in the wind, it may be worth reconsidering the flight.

I've flown small Cessnas in windy conditions enough that I could land nearly vertically; slow the airplane down and it could be operated backward over the ground, add a little bit of power and groundspeed was zero. In a case like that you're landing into the wind no matter what, but you don't need much runway. In fact, I did that to the tie downs once, and simply kept power on the airplane while two people put ropes on the wings and tied it down. In an airplane like a cub, it's easy to do; anything with a low groundspeed to begin with doesn't need a lot of wind.

A few years ago the BLM put a cap of 30 knots of wind speed over a fire, for single engine air tankers to fly. More than that and the BLM would call off the airshow. In rough terrain, 30 knots can translate to severe or worse turbulence, making low altitude maneuvering, often creating the inability to climb or escape downdrafts or rotors, and can even make the aircraft uncontrollable in some places. It compromises safety.

Look at what your'e flying, when, and where, and what you intend to do, and make your decision based on all the facts as considered together. You might have a 15 knot personal crosswind landing limit, but on a cold day with a slick runway, it might be much, much less. The circumstances, the aircraft, your personal experience and own limits, and other factors should always be considered.
 
Around here (KBED), winds above 15mph on the ground generally mean bumps in the air. Getting bounced around in my cherokee 140 isn't my idea of a good time, so I would scrub, unless it was for the purpose of getting from point A to point B.
 
My general rule of thumb is that if the wind is strong enough that the airplane moves around with no one it, it's a bit too windy for my taste. I'm more concerned with taxi issues than takeoff and landing ones.
 
The Navion is a pig to taxi on the ground in a crosswind (and boy it will jump chocks to weather vane into a 30 knot wind). However, I've not got any problem flying in such winds even if gusty as long as the crosswind component is reasonable. One time coming into Dulles I noticed I was holding a 45 degree wca for runway 1R (now 1C) and I asked the tower if I didn't move any further to the east could I land on 30 instead. After I asked, the 757 on final for 1L decided that if I could get it, she could get it to and she asked. Neat seeing that thing make the last minute turn to final.

It's all a matter of perspective. When I learned to fly at BJC, 20G33 was good student solo weather, but we always had 40+ mile visibility unless you were in a local thunderstorm. My wife learned at IAD, where winds like that are uncommon, but the entire summer is 5 miles in haze practically. As a result there were years when if it was hazy, she'd fly and if it was windy, I would.
 
I've landed with 40 knots right down the runway exactly one time (ABQ) and barely made it to the tiedown area in a 172. After that experience I let the groundwind taxi situation rule my decision before takeoff, if I have to land in 30+ I'm obviously going to try to find a runway oriented into the wind. The highest crosswind I've done (successfully, there are a few that were attempted but not completed! :D) is 20G25 at 50 degrees, that was a handful and right on the edge of control authority for the airplane. Interestingly enough, that was dropping onto a 40' wide runway to meet my CFI for a BFR...

Having said all that, 20-25 knots doesn't scare me much (the wind ALWAYS blows out here) and I'll launch into it if I need to go somewhere. If I'm just looking to scratch the itch to burn some fuel, I'll probably wait for another day. Last week I saw 160 knots groundspeed on one leg and 87 knots groundspeed on the return. Life happens.
 
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One time coming into Dulles I noticed I was holding a 45 degree wca for runway 1R (now 1C) and I asked the tower if I didn't move any further to the east could I land on 30 instead. After I asked, the 757 on final for 1L decided that if I could get it, she could get it to and she asked. Neat seeing that thing make the last minute turn to final.

I was in an EMB 145 and we did the circle to land on 30 maneuver. I was thinking to myself, "man, that's one serious crab" until I realized we were circling for 30. Seeing heavies do it must be pretty impressive.
 
All depends; on the aircraft, the terrain, etc etc etc. In high winds with a light plane you are actually more vulnerable on the ground during taxi than in the air, IMHO.
 
I fly for fun, windy days aren't fun.
 
I fly for fun, windy days aren't fun.

Same here - once it gets around 25kts it becomes work instead of play. It doesn't scare me off, but I'd just prefer not having to fight with a rough ride when I don't have to.
 
I took a beating on the red board a few years ago when I questioned the chief pilot for Underwood Aerial Patrol...I forget his name...when he stated that he routinely landed with 40 knot direct crosswinds in a 150, and up to 60 kt. I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now.

I only fly for fun so anything above 25 kts and I'm probably staying home. Like a lot of you, I've flown in higher winds, but it's not fun anymore.
 
I took a beating on the red board a few years ago when I questioned the chief pilot for Underwood Aerial Patrol...I forget his name...when he stated that he routinely landed with 40 knot direct crosswinds in a 150, and up to 60 kt. I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now.

I only fly for fun so anything above 25 kts and I'm probably staying home. Like a lot of you, I've flown in higher winds, but it's not fun anymore.

Definitely full of it

Taxi is definitely when you are most susceptible. Anything over 20kts in the 152 i'm very careful to maintain correct control inputs when taxiing. I landed a warrior II with full seats and half tanks last weekend in winds gusting to around 25 or so (right down the runway) and just made a point to hang on to the yoke.
 
Agreed with others who say the limit is usually how you safely taxi in it. Also depends quite a bit if it's steady-state or gusting badly. In my aircraft the trick is to leave the flaps UP until you're on the runway, pointed into the wind... 'cause it'll lift off at 35 knots indicated, which is a little faster than that, calibrated.

I left KAEG after a fuel stop in 30 knots one day, but it wasn't a particularly fun taxi. We were just getting out of Dodge.

I also take into account aircraft load. We were near gross that day, which means a lot of fuel in the wings and it's harder for the wind to move that much mass. Light, Cessnas will rock badly.

That being said, I took a Letter of Discontinuance in winds that were reported by the tower as being just under 30 in gusts, but the DPE put "steady-state winds exceed 30 knots" on the Discontinuance letter, and I think he was right for the period of time we were out at the airplane. I just wanted credit for the pre-flight items! (GRIN!)
 
Long as I don't have to take off vertically, we're good to go :D
 
For work I haven't been in a wind that stopped me from operating. For personal flying I don't exceed the crosswind component (same as at work) for wind I don't usually exceed 20kts with more than 50% gust factor.
 
It's settled down now, but the past two weeks have been pretty windy here in Kansas (big surprise, huh?). Winds were 20 kts gusting to 30+ at times. Winds were mostly from the south, so for IXD it would have been a direct headwind on 18. I didn't fly during this time, just figured why fight it when better days would be here, and yesterday was outstanding.

Anyway, my question. Forgetting crosswind, which is a separate issue, if the wind is right down the runway, what are your personal wind limits, i.e. when do you feel like you just don't want to go up?

Hey Jim! Welcome to the forum. By the way, I also live in Lenexa. Small world, eh? Winds? Probably no good answer. It's all about what you are comfortable with. Personally, I tend to get more emotional about the gust spread and possibility of wind shear. Crosswinds are a whole other ballgame. Drop an email sometime and let's have a beverage. :wink2:
 
I took a beating on the red board a few years ago when I questioned the chief pilot for Underwood Aerial Patrol...I forget his name...when he stated that he routinely landed with 40 knot direct crosswinds in a 150, and up to 60 kt. I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now.

I only fly for fun so anything above 25 kts and I'm probably staying home. Like a lot of you, I've flown in higher winds, but it's not fun anymore.

Hey, at 60 knots of direct crosswind, you could just land a 150 on the runway's width.
 
Agree with all those that said flying for me is fun and windy days generally are not fun to fly in. That said I've landed in winds exceeding 20 knots before without a problem so mid 20's is my limit right now. I'd say anything above that and I'm rescheduling. Why take the risk to fly above my limits?
 
I'd be less likely to go if my forward progress would be greatly hampered by heavy headwinds, or if the turbulence is going to make me sick, otherwise I think the strongest winds I've landed in was about 25 kts.
 
I'll accept up to 30 kts straight down the runway as long as the gusts are less than 40kts.

We left KPUB a year or so ago with sustained winds over 30kts straight down the runway. It provided an excellent tailwind for the first leg of our trip.

I've landed with 20 kt 90 degree x-wind, but I didn't enjoy it very much. So I'd say my crosswind component limit is around 15 kts.
 
Today the quick trip up to the avionics shop, KAPA-KBJC-KAPA... The wind was gusting to 30 at both ends on the return trip.

The interesting part. Runway at KBJC is 29. Runway at KAPA is 35. Wind was wandering around 330 so it worked for both ends. :)

Even more amazing, Gobosh 77K was chasing me around in it. Tower at BJC asked him after he landed and I was taxiing out how it was... He said it was "interesting". Tower then says to me, "Skylane 79M that was from a recent arrival." "Understood, 79M."

I didn't have the heart to make a wisecrack about different weights. I bet it was pretty sporty in the Gobosh!

He departed and chased me back to APA and I heard him cleared to land behind me. He was hoping the wind would come around and favor 28 but it didn't.

With 35R closed for construction, that taxi in the wind was probably a chore from 35L to Area Hotel where the Gobosh parks. It was trying to turn me by the tail until I got hidden behind the hangars near C1. ;)

The construction guy holding the stop sign on 35L was barely hanging on to the thing. I had visions of him losing his grip and it blowing into my prop. I crossed a little quicker. ;)
 
Oh. Did I mention the short burst of 185 on the groundspeed coming back from BJC to APA? Wheeee!
 
Same here - once it gets around 25kts it becomes work instead of play. It doesn't scare me off, but I'd just prefer not having to fight with a rough ride when I don't have to.


Same here. Fly for fun and 25kt is my limit and sometimes a lot less.
 
I took a beating on the red board a few years ago when I questioned the chief pilot for Underwood Aerial Patrol...I forget his name...when he stated that he routinely landed with 40 knot direct crosswinds in a 150, and up to 60 kt. I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now.

I'm with you, Gerhardt, 40 to 60 kt crosswind in a 150? I don't believe it, unless of course he landed perpendicular to the runway, 'cause he'd need that width to stay on the pavement! :lol:

Well, heck, I hadn't gotten through the posts when I first responded and see that James had already beaten me to it on the same thought!

If you ever run into that guy doing these landings in 60 kt crosswinds, let me know and I'll help sell tickets to the show!
 
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Oh. Did I mention the short burst of 185 on the groundspeed coming back from BJC to APA? Wheeee!

185 gs in a 182 is impressive. You must have been racking up some serious miles per gallon!
 
love turbulence - makes it interesting :)
 
Everything I've flown in the last 11 years has had a tailwheel. That and we typically don't get a lot of wind here in North Georgia.

Which explains why I'm not much of a "wind" flyer.

My rule of thumb is that if the wind is >1/3 the stall speed of whatever I'm flying, I'll generally pass on a pleasure flight. If I'm going x/c, it is a little different, but I still won't head for a destination where the crosswind component is expected to be over 15 knots. If the wind is down the runway (or close), I'd give it a go with a wind of ~40% of the aircraft's stall speed, maybe slightly more.
 
Hey Jim! Welcome to the forum. By the way, I also live in Lenexa. Small world, eh? Winds? Probably no good answer. It's all about what you are comfortable with. Personally, I tend to get more emotional about the gust spread and possibility of wind shear. Crosswinds are a whole other ballgame. Drop an email sometime and let's have a beverage. :wink2:

Gordon, e-mail sent.

Jim
 
It depends on the airframe and the mission.

I would not untie the Pawnee to tow last weekend with the winds at 20G30. You still need to taxi and turn broadside to the wind or taxi downwind. Doing that with a nose heavy taildragger you best be real careful. No need for a prop strike. I've flown the Pawnee with 90 degree cross at 20knts, but when it gets gusty above 25 it's best to be tied down.

Flying a heavy C182S with 20G26 and 60 degree cross was no issue.
 
It's settled down now, but the past two weeks have been pretty windy here in Kansas (big surprise, huh?). Winds were 20 kts gusting to 30+ at times. Winds were mostly from the south, so for IXD it would have been a direct headwind on 18.

Remember you have to taxi to parking.
 
Highest I recall specifically was 24G37 at Santa Fe, but I imagine I have landed in stronger winds at Marfa a time or two. 25 knots is a wispy breeze out there...
 
I've landed with a 25 knot direct xwind in my 172, and up to 35 with varying degrees of xwind. It's not too bad once you get used to it.
 
I can't remember right now the biggest x-wind I landed in. I do remember asking tower for a windcheck after I landed, and then said "Oh, ****" when I heard the numbers. They were quite a bit higher than the ATIS reported, and higher than the windcheck I got on downwind.
 
I can't remember right now the biggest x-wind I landed in. I do remember asking tower for a windcheck after I landed, and then said "Oh, ****" when I heard the numbers. They were quite a bit higher than the ATIS reported, and higher than the windcheck I got on downwind.


Ive done that too, but usually before landing and on one than more occasion told the tower i need to land somewhere else, or request a runway more aligned with the winds. I remeber one towered airport i was landing at once wanted me to land on a runway with a 18kt xwind, i requested a different runway which they denied so i said i need to go somewhere else after a failed attempt to land.
 
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