How to put a G3X in a certified plane.

[Henning]

So the other thread got me thinking, because I really like the G3X (although you could also replace with Dynon for the intents of this thread) and I got to thinking that you can do this in most planes by buying right side panel room for a six pack (or Aspen) by using one of the 'glass' "Certified Primary" engine instruments, setting up the right seat to have all the FAR requirements met and a certified system standing by, and then have the G3X on the left secured in such a way as it is compliant with the FARS.

Can anyone see why that couldn't be legally done?

 

[NoHeat]

So the other thread got me thinking, because I really like the G3X (although you could also replace with Dynon for the intents of this thread) and I got to thinking that you can do this in most planes by buying right side panel room for a six pack (or Aspen) by using one of the 'glass' "Certified Primary" engine instruments, setting up the right seat to have all the FAR requirements met and a certified system standing by, and then have the G3X on the left secured in such a way as it is compliant with the FARS.

Can anyone see why that couldn't be legally done?

A non-permanent mount. Something like the Airgizmos docks that were once sold for panel mounting a Garmin handheld GPS, and now for mounting an iPad mini.

I'd guess the plane would be legal. But if you have an incident with a single pilot sitting in the left seat, could 91.13 get you?

Edit: the G3X looks small enough, maybe you could get the minimal VFR flight instruments on the left or center of the panel along with the G3X. Airspeed and altimeter. Leave all the engine instruments on the right side. I think you'd be good for VFR flight then.

 

[unsafervguy]

Because those systems are not tso'ed they will require a field approval for installation in a certified aircraft. Also since most panels are structural that constitutes a major alteration and that also requires a 337 field approval, good luck with that. Me and the avionics guy have discussed just that, and we both feel that we would never get it approved.

Bob

 

[Henning]

Why? CFI-Is fly instruments from the right all the time, I do sometimes as well. There's nothing inherently reckless about it. It's not like doing it in an A-380, in a GA plane it's right there, you don't really even need to turn your head. If you use an Aspen you don't even introduce parallax, and really, you could just put it right alongside the G3X in the middle if you wanted.

 

[MickYoumans]

You could not legally tie the G3X into your 'certified' pitot system, but I would think you should be able to add a separate pitot system for the G3X. I hear what Bob was saying above, but I would not think they would view the instrument panel as a structural component like the rest of the airframe. People retro fit certified glass into their panels, so I don't see why that should be an issue. I'm not an A&P so that's only my opinion. I can't justify the cost of a certified glass panel for my airplane, but a G3X would be affordable if only it were legal. Instead of all of the effort being placed on 3rd class medical reform, I wish the same effort could have been placed in getting some sanity in the avionics and maintenance of small certified airplanes. If a G3X is acceptable for use in an RV, why should it not be acceptable in a Cessna or Piper with proper installation?

 

[Henning]

You could not legally tie the G3X into your 'certified' pitot system, but I would think you should be able to add a separate pitot system for the G3X. I hear what Bob was saying above, but I would not think they would view the instrument panel as a structural component like the rest of the airframe. People retro fit certified glass into their panels, so I don't see why that should be an issue. I'm not an A&P so that's only my opinion. I can't justify the cost of a certified glass panel for my airplane, but a G3X would be affordable if only it were legal. Instead of all of the effort being placed on 3rd class medical reform, I wish the same effort could have been placed in getting some sanity in the avionics and maintenance of small certified airplanes. If a G3X is acceptable for use in an RV, why should it not be acceptable in a Cessna or Piper with proper installation?

Yep, no rules against installing a second pitot-static system. The Pt 23 reform was put in over a year before PBOR2 which would do that, although using a stupidly low weight restriction. This is a legal way to have it in the plane, but not 'installed'.

 

[yetti]

This was being discussed among friends. as long as you don't cut the spar to install the system, it is a minor mod. As long as someone signs the 337 as airworthy, there is really no FSDO approval. It just gets filed with the airplane records. It's use in other airplanes would suggest that it is airworthy which is what the the A&P is signing off on the 337

 

[retailguy]

After having a 796 in an air gizmos mount in my Baron, I would NEVER want the G3X installed in my plane. I despise the touchscreen, and would trade the thing for a 696 in heartbeat.

To each his own, but I sincerely hate the thing...

 

[Henning]

After having a 796 in an air gizmos mount in my Baron, I would NEVER want the G3X installed in my plane. I despise the touchscreen, and would trade the thing for a 696 in heartbeat.

To each his own, but I sincerely hate the thing...

Like I said, this same discussion applies to any of the Exp SVT/PFD systems. If you prefer a Dynon to the Garmin, you can feel free to replace the units named for the purpose of this discussion. The G3X is just one example I used because I happen to like the touch screen menu. That part is just one of personal preference.

 

[Velocity173]

This months Aviation Consumer has an article on PFDs replacing traditional gyros. I guess the FAA recently changed their policy in the matter??? At any rate, a lot of this certified stuff is as cheap as the non certified. Might not have all the bells and whistles of non certified but at least you can use it as a primary and not temporally mounted on the right side of your panel.

 

[Challenged]

My Avionics shop did not return my recent email regarding installing a Grand Rapids EFIS in my Sierra. I really want to do something like this, but I'm afraid I might need to talk to a number of shops before I can find one that's willing. I'm wondering how expensive/involved installation of a secondary pitot static system would be; doesn't strike me as being overly difficult.

 

[hindsight2020]

This months Aviation Consumer has an article on PFDs replacing traditional gyros. I guess the FAA recently changed their policy in the matter??? At any rate, a lot of this certified stuff is as cheap as the non certified. Might not have all the bells and whistles of non certified but at least you can use it as a primary and not temporally mounted on the right side of your panel.

Cheap certified PFD? Care to provide an example? The Sandia Quattro, which is not even a full PFD (lacks HSI/heading functionality) is listed at 4AMU and its availability has now been pushed to the right for the third time (original 15 Nov date, is now 20 Jan 16 according to spruce). I was looking at it but I got enough red flags going up I've given up on it. So that leaves Aspen, and even its software-restricted non-HSI functionality version (so-called VFR PFD) is 6AMUs with ACU option. After that installation gets done you're looking at a 12K hit.

 

[unsafervguy]

This was being discussed among friends. as long as you don't cut the spar to install the system, it is a minor mod. As long as someone signs the 337 as airworthy, there is really no FSDO approval. It just gets filed with the airplane records. It's use in other airplanes would suggest that it is airworthy which is what the the A&P is signing off on the 337

If it's a minor mod no 337 is required. Note the title of a 337. Major mod or repair. A minor mod requires a log book entry only.That only requires acceptable data. If you need a 337 then you need approved data for the mod. That means either manufacture data or get it approve by a der or field approval. There is a reason that it has not been done before. Like I said, I have discussed this with an avionics shop that does a lot of panel re-dos and sells a lot of experimental stuff, he would love to do it, the Feds just won't allow it.

Also, most panels are structural. That's why aspen has a stc for the new panels for their installs.

Bob

 

[Velocity173]

Cheap certified PFD? Care to provide an example? The Sandia Quattro, which is not even a full PFD (lacks HSI/heading functionality) is listed at 4AMU and its availability has now been pushed to the right for the third time (original 15 Nov date, is now 20 Jan 16 according to spruce). I was looking at it but I got enough red flags going up I've given up on it. So that leaves Aspen, and even its software-restricted non-HSI functionality version (so-called VFR PFD) is 6AMUs with ACU option. After that installation gets done you're looking at a 12K hit.

I'm talking basic PFD in that they are replacing the traditional "six pack." Some have additional GPS / ILS (Genesis) capability though.
The prices were any where from $3100 to $5800.

 

[yetti]

So TSO is it the manufacture saying that it meets all the requirements of a certain standard and then registering it with the FAA? Could an individual do the same for a set of equipment or do they have to be the manufacturer?
The FAA has gone into dark waters saying that quadcopters are registered aircraft. If the $1000.00 worth of electronics that are way more advanced than a C172 cockpit are now "certified" to fly in National Airspace.

 

[Hcsims]

This is the problem with the FAA bureaucracy. In thirty more years they will still demand light planes either use expensive EFIS systems that are worth more than the plane or vacuum pump systems. There is no regard for affordability of quality, reliable non TSO'd avionics.

I want to toss all my vacuum instruments and completely upgrade the panel,of my AA5B. Cost for Certified is $40000-$42000. Cost with Dynon, GRT, or MGL EFIS and a backup is $28000-$30000. I was told to present my proposal to the FSDO. I'm working on it and will make a proposal this year.

For now I just use the IPAD and Stratus. Cheap and good.