How to purchase a hangar - questions

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by piperpilot12w, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. piperpilot12w

    piperpilot12w Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2019
    Messages:
    2
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    piperpilot12w
    I previously had a plane that was a tie down years ago. Considering the purchase of another plane and wondering about the costs involved with a hangar. I've looked through some hangar listings and had some questions.

    Is the typical arrangement where you purchase the hangar and pay the airport a monthly fee?
    Is the land leased or owned? What happens when the lease is up?
    Are there property taxes owed on a yearly basis as well?
    Any other fees associated besides electric if available.


    I'm in Southern California and previously kept my plane at John Wayne. Thinking about Chino/Long Beach or surrounding airports. Anyone know about hangars at these airports? What is the best source to find hangars available at these airports?
     
    PeterNSteinmetz likes this.
  2. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    54,412
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    The payments and such vary wildly by airport.

    A couple folks here have hangars attaches to their houses, for example.

    You did give specific airports, so hopefully someone based there will come along and discuss those.

    At ours, we own the hangar but the land under it is a lease. If we were in one with electrical, some share a meter and have to do a pro-rated thing one of the FBOs manages, others have individual electric meters, etc.

    All sorts of variables. No two airports will be exactly alike.

    We found ours via a For Sale sign hanging on the door.
     
  3. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,187
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DFH65
    In my area of operation almost everything is a monthly rental. In some cases when there is electric it is metered separately and you pay that as well.
     
    Shepherd likes this.
  4. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    19,695
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Pay special attention to the lease terms for what happens when it ends. In many places, the improvement (the hangar building) reverts to the airport at the end of the term. Unless it's way off in the future, you need to watch that.
     
    N747JB likes this.
  5. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,268
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    You have it covered as far as I have seen although you are in Taxifornia so there could well be other costs we don’t know about. And importantly, as flyingron notes, see if the airport-owning body takes your hangar from you at the end of the lease.
    The best way to get answers would be to find someone who owns at the airport you are interested in, ask them. Don’t forget insurance too.
     
  6. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    7,760
    Location:
    Somewhere else
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Guest
    It really depends on who owns the airport. John Wayne is owed by the County of Orange, Fullerton is owned by the city, etc.

    You can use Airnav to find the owners of your other options.

    Privately owned, public use, airports have less red tape IMHO. Land ownership is also more likely at the privately owned places than a municipal operation.
     
  7. aftCG

    aftCG Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    396
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    aftCG
    Not just many but basically all public airports. The land lease is typically 30 years around here.

    At the end you turn the keys over unless you get an extension. You'll almost always get the extension but if your airport is suddenly inundated with high dollar jets they may invite you to leave. Extensions are usually shorter (maybe 20 years). Then you're done. Regardless, the hangar is an asset which will sharply decrease in value towards the end.

    Really difficult to get a bank to finance a hangar on leased land.

    I can't make the math work. Sure, I could "own" a hangar at my airport by coming up with $150-250k out of thin air, pay a modest lease and have a place for my plane for the rest of my days. End value = 0

    Or I could rent the hangar from the county, do basically anything I want to it and have more money in the airplane fund.

    Now, it's a very different story if you are at a private airport and you can own the land under the hangar.
     
  8. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    8,783
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    Best source is probably at the airport. Call FBO’s. Check bulletin boards. Walk around looking for folk at their hangars and ask them.
     
  9. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,745
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    In general, check with the airport commission or manager or whatever they call it. If looking at simply a T-hangar it usually is a monthly rent with a signed contract. It's also usually cheaper if you park in a large hangar with other planes. If looking to build, every airport has their own rules. However, at most municipal airports private ownership is usually not allowed, even if you personally build the hangar. Once built the building becomes airport property after a said period usually 10-20 years.
     
  10. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    14,210
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    #1 Typical:
    - You lease the land from the airport for 10-20 years, often with one or two 5-10 year extensions baked in.The renewals are sometimes indexed to some local commercial real estate price index.
    - you build the hangar
    - you pay property tax on the hangar as commercial real estate. Depending on the state you may pay property tax on the lease payment as well.
    - when the lease is up, (30-50 years in), hangar reverts to the airport owner.

    #2 Occasional (on private airports):
    - you buy the land which is adjacent to the actual airport
    - you execute an access agreement with the airport that allows you to use the ramp and runway (TTF agreement)
    - you build the hangar
    - you pay tax on hangar and land
    - you own it forever

    These days, on FAA funded airports, the FAA insists on all 'aeronautical land' to be owned by the airport sponsor. So the second model is something you still see here and there but it's on the way out, at least for commercial properties. Airparks with residential properties are a bit of a different animal.
     
    PeterNSteinmetz likes this.
  11. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,386
    Location:
    North Creek, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lachlan
    There are very, very few places that consider a hangar real property or real estate vs personal property. Know what you know. ;)
     
  12. deyoung

    deyoung Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    462
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Chris
    Around here as far as I know the only option for owning your own is to buy a lot at one of the private "air park" developments and put it there. Otherwise, you just lease the whole thing.
     
  13. Southpaw

    Southpaw Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2019
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Montana
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ernest Taft
    At local airport a T hanger with sliding doors that will hold a 170 /172 is $45 a month . Bit cheaper by the year.
     
    Let'sgoflying! likes this.
  14. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,268
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    I would presume you would make some contribution for upkeep, or pay a fee to use the pavement etc especially if it is a private strip?
     
  15. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    14,210
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    Typically yes. In years past, some airport owners/developers would deed access to the field if you just bought the lot. They figured they would make enough on selling fuel to the additional tenants.

    At a FAA funded airport the FAA requires TTF agreements to contribute to the upkeep at a level comparable to the on-field tenants.
     
  16. Silvaire

    Silvaire En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,911
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Silvaire
    My airport is county owned and the lease for the private hangars is basically open meaning they theoretically could boot us out at any time although there's no foreseeable reason why they'd ever do that. The hangars are Port-A-Ports so, with a bit of work, they could be disassembled and moved. In fact all of them came from a local airport that closed about 30 years ago. Depending on size they usually sell for $15-18k the Exec size I have is big enough for a 310 or a Baron. The county also collects property tax on them, about $200/year. Utilities are included in the lease.
     
  17. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    19,695
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Well, that's what I'm doing... picture to theleft.
     
  18. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,901
    Location:
    AG5B BE33 MYF
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    N1120A
    I doubt you'll find a reasonably priced hangar to purchase at LGB, but CNO or FNT are probably not bad options. It is fairly stark how prices vary from airport to airport.

    The OP is also in Makemoremonyifornia, Betterweatherifornia, Freedomifornia, Greatservicesifornia, etc. Oh, and "other costs" are basically non-existent here - pay the rental rate and go.

    Man, that would be nice.
     
  19. N747JB

    N747JB Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    6,078
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    John
    I looked into this in Destin when the FBO changed hands are started really gouging us on overnight tie downs. The way it worked there is the land is leased from the airport authority, around $8000.00 per year, the property/real estate tax was another $3-4000 per year and the hangars were selling from $150-250K. I couldn't make the math work!
     
  20. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    14,210
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    The lease terms are what killed it for me. I can deal with the cost, what I can't deal with is a city administrator who could just take my 100k investment on a whim.
     
  21. 1RTK1

    1RTK1 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Central Left Coast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ralph
    Ouch, our hangar purchase price runs from 10,000 for the smaller to 30,000 for the multi plane large ones, if you can find one for sale. We pay property tax to the county and association ground lease.
    I believe the airport association leases the airport from the city for a dollar or something a year. Basically the city wants nothing to do with the airport and pays for no upkeep, etc., we are on our own. The airport is in a different county than our city that owns it. I doubt we will have any encroachment problems because we are located out in no mans land.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  22. SoCalPilot88

    SoCalPilot88 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    117
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoCalPilot88
    Chino airport is adding more Port-A-Port hangars over on the west end. I think these came from recently closed Rialto airport. These do not have power. You should call the airport administration located on the airport. Other T hangars with water and power are in the low $300 per month.There is a wait list for all of these so get your name on it.

    Corona airport may have availability as well. It may even be cheaper than Chino. Just remember, every few years the airport floods and the hangars on the west end could get submerged so be poised to periodically evacuate/elevate your valuables.
     
  23. deadeye99

    deadeye99 Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Messages:
    33
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    deadeye99
    You meant 450.00 right? I’m in S FL and pay 850. I’ve seen 250 in the middle of the state.
     
  24. Bacho

    Bacho Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bacho
    I bought my 172 from BNW, as I recall $45 a month was the price on an unheated T-hangar. Meanwhile at home it starts at $375 for community hanger with a 100 person waiting list.
     
  25. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    14,210
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    There is some wrinkle with the 'Port a Port' hangars where they are treated like a mobile home rather than a fixed structure. As such they don't revert to the entity that you lease the dirt from.
     
  26. piperpilot12w

    piperpilot12w Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2019
    Messages:
    2
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    piperpilot12w
    Thanks to everyone for your replies. Gives me a better understanding of what I'm about to embark on.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  27. SoCal 182 Driver

    SoCal 182 Driver Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2019
    Messages:
    360
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoCal 182 Driver
    Answering your questions in order....

    1. Yes.
    2. Typically, the land is leased to the owner by the airport. When the lease is up, some leases have reversion clauses that give the hangar to the airport. Other leases are silent on this, and it is up to the hangar owner and airport to enter into a new lease.
    3. Yes.
    4. It depends on the airport. My hangar lease includes electrical. I own the structure and lease the ground from the airport.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  28. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    4,469
    Location:
    Hopewell Jct, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Shepherd
    Yeah.
    What DFH65 said.