How to log safety pilot time

[poadeleted20]

Lots of people think that.

Lots of folks also think that logged PIC has the sole purpose of meeting FAA requirements for FAA certificates, ratings and operating privileges and there is nothing particularly silly about the FAA deciding that "sole manipulator" or some other defined time can be used for that purpose.

Me? I think the argument is far more ridiculous than the rules. It's probably unfortunate the FAA chose to use the term PIC for a certain time of flight time used to meet FAA requirements for FAA certificates and ratings rather than making up some word like "zmxtk" so that, for example, 61.65(d)(1) would say

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Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, 50 hours of cross-country flight time as zmxtk, of which 10 hours must have been in an airplane
==============================

and everyone would stop whining.

I agree with Mark completely. The FAA makes it very hard for people to understand things when they do something like this.

 

[poadeleted20]

Frankly, many people find it easier to fly with them on (when legal to do so). No distractions.

Which is why, when giving instrument training, I do my best to get them into actual instrument conditions so they can take off the hood and experience real instrument flying -- like they'll be doing later on when they're flying without me. But when giving instrument training for the initial IR, we're usually under the gun to get those required 40 hours of instrument time, so I have to keep them under the hood when we're in those in-and-out sorts of conditions.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It's happened to me in training. I'm buzzing along with the foggles on and finally the instructor says "You can take them off, we're pretty much in it solid now."

Frankly, many people find it easier to fly with them on (when legal to do so). No distractions.

I found it to be the opposite. I recall my first solo IFR flight which was mostly in actual (and half at night). Flying along the thought struck me that "Wow, I can see!" - it was so much easier to scan the instruments and perform other cockpit tasks without having to look around foggles.

 

[John Collins]

In other countries, the term aircraft commander is used instead of acting as PIC.

 

[midlifeflyer]

In other countries, the term aircraft commander is used instead of acting as PIC.

[GEEK WARNING]
The term for the "type of time required to meet FAA certificate, rating and currency requirements" it has changed from time to time in the US. The use of sole manipulator time, then referred to as "solo" ("solo" as "sole occupant" shows up in the 1950s) seems to have made its appearance as early as the late 1920s although at that time is was required to be both "the sole operator of the controls and ... in command of aircraft in flight" (my emphasis).

The current version of the rule, still using "solo" instead of PIC and dropping the need to actually be the pilot in command seems to make its first appearance in a 1942 revision to Part 20 of the CAR, adding a new rule on logging:

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20.673 Logging of pilot flight time.*

***

(b) The holder of a pilot certificate, other than a student pilot certificate, may log as solo flight time that portion of any flight during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls: Provided, That he may log as solo flight time only 50 percent of any flight time during which a certificated instructor or a certificated airline transport pilot is in the aircraft serving as an instructor for the purpose of reviewing or increasing such pilot's skill;
==============================

Change "solo flight time" to "pilot in command" and, except for removing the instruction debit and adding some more requirements, you have the rule in essentially the same form today as it has been for the past 70+ years.

And we still argue about it as though someone made it up yesterday.

(Yes, I need a life - my only excuses are (1) inborn academic curiosity and (2) being laid-up after hip surgery. Most of this post is a copy and paste of one I did years ago)

 

[flyingron]

It's pretty clear, the FAA wants that category to involve FLYING the aircraft not just being responsible for it. It's a shame they recycled the term "pilot in command" for this. PF or some other term might have stemmed the confusion.

 

[poadeleted20]

In other countries, the term aircraft commander is used instead of acting as PIC.

That term is also used in this country -- by the USAF. They differentiate this in logging by logging FP time when you're flying the plane, CP when you're acting as co-pilot but not flying the plane, and AC time when you're the PIC regardless of who's flying the plane.

 

[poadeleted20]

It's pretty clear, the FAA wants that category to involve FLYING the aircraft not just being responsible for it.

If by "that category" you mean PIC time, I disagree -- see 14 CFR 61.51(e) subparagraphs (1)(iii), (2), and (3). All three are clearly written to allow logging of PIC time when not actually doing the flying. The problem is that the FAA uses "PIC time" to cover both flying the plane and being the final authority responsible for safe operation, but not always one or the other and sometimes neither. For example, SIC without PIC type rating flying a type-rating-required aircraft while the PIC supervises -- SIC cannot log PIC time despite flying the plane, while PIC logs PIC time without flying the plane (even while s/he's in the lavatory). Hence, all the confusion.