Everskyward
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Everskyward
That's true, so if you can do the maneuver to standards you really do not need to say anything.
How to be productive during solo?
- Thread starter kimberlyanne546
- Start date
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Here's what I did toward the end - I made a PTS "Cheat sheet" that listed all the maneuvers, the tolerances, and added in a couple of things like the proper airspeeds... Then I went out and flew everything and honestly rated it, and if it wasn't well within the standards I practiced it until it was.
The sheet is attached... The speeds listed are for a 172N and the tolerances are from the PTS that was in effect in about April of 2003, but this should give you a good idea so you can modify it as necessary (probably won't take much).
I hope this helps... Enjoy your flight!
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Here's what I did toward the end - I made a PTS "Cheat sheet" that listed all the maneuvers, the tolerances, and added in a couple of things like the proper airspeeds... Then I went out and flew everything and honestly rated it, and if it wasn't well within the standards I practiced it until it was.
The sheet is attached... The speeds listed are for a 172N and the tolerances are from the PTS that was in effect in about April of 2003, but this should give you a good idea so you can modify it as necessary (probably won't take much).
I hope this helps... Enjoy your flight!
Thank you! What sucks is I don't have a printer at home! But this helps and I will see a printer before I solo again.
denverpilot
Tied Down
The sheet is attached... The speeds listed are for a 172N and the tolerances are from the PTS that was in effect in about April of 2003, but this should give you a good idea so you can modify it as necessary (probably won't take much).
I hope this helps... Enjoy your flight!
Cool sheet. Were the admonitions about "must use checklist" plastered all over the PTS back in 2003?
I only ask because going back and forth between this thing and the aircraft's checklist could get busy... I'd want to merge them and make a new checklist if the DE's are still hot and heavy on checklists, so I wouldn't drop one on the floor and the DE decide the "official" one was on the floor while I had this in my lap... ya know?
Minor nitpick, very good info. I just don't remember my DE in the early 90's harping on the checklists too hard... I definitely used the thing, but if I made a landing with it tucked under my leg and didn't read every single item during some touch-and-go stuff we did during the checkride, he didn't seem to bat an eye... as long as I kept pulling it out at more appropriate (read: less busy) times and making sure I was doing all the stuff.
I do think, however... (and I was going to stay OUT of the "whether to talk or not during the checkride debate, but here goes)... that talking through all of my flows and items I was doing may have given pretty good "cover" for not always having the checklist in my hand and reading from it. He was an old DE and I'm sure he'd flown a LOT of airplanes that never even had a checklist... he wanted to see that I was doing the right things in the right order, more than that I had the little laminated card out.
And now that might explain why I'm such a freakin' fan of GUMPS and the younger crowd that listens to the podcast thinks I'm crazy for it...
Meanwhile, since I'm planning to do more "crew" flying this year with CAP, I'm telling Doug that we HAVE to do the coordinated-crew thing and him read me items after flows and all that stuff for practice on the way to OSH this year... which is going to drive me nuts, but I gotta get more used to it.
My coordinated crew skills that were in pretty good shape back in the days I was doing sim time at a school where everyone (thought) was going on the Majors someday, are in rusty sad shape. I'm too fast to just reach for things and do them myself. I had to explain to Doug that I wasn't doing it as an insult... just out of too much single-pilot flying and habits.
I have a feeling some of the audio recorded is going to be funny. I've been telling him he has permission to slap my hand away from the flap handle and the radios. LOL!
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I didn't use this on the checkride, it was simply a tool to have a productive solo flight, and be able to keep my head outside and not have to turn pages in a PTS book.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Ahhh.. misunderstood how you used it. Got it.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Can I have a checklist on the checkride (like a home-made one)? I should talk to my instructor about this, we NEVER use a checklist during flight except:
Starting the engine
Run up
Emergency landing
(That's it)
The rest I know by heart. Oh and we don't use GUMPS since my fuel is either "off" or "on" (that's it) and because I don't have retractable gear.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
You can - And you'll want them available. The FAA likes checklists. I do make my own checklists (after a VERY careful review of the aircraft checklists and the reasons behind every step and the order it's in, and a review by my CFII), but if you don't, be sure you have the aircraft checklists.
I also did make a checklist for the commercial maneuvers and used that one on my checkride.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
LOL I wear the checklist around my neck! I bought a Sure Pro Checklist. Also around my neck with my checklists are little ones I made for the 5 nearest airports in case we go there (drawings of pattern entry, CTAF frequencies, TPA, etc.)
denverpilot
Tied Down
Welllll... your instructor knows your local DE's and their quirks better than we do, so definitely talk to him.
But the PTS link I sent you earlier was straight from the horses mouth (FAA) and it's littered with "makes appropriate use of checklist" at every single phase of the flight, from taxi, through takeoff, to cruise, to approach, to landing, and even shut-down. It's literally a line typed into each and every one of those sections.
So yeah... The FAA is a bit checklist crazed, which is not IMHO a Bad Thing(TM) but there are times in the real world where pulling out a checklist would be far less appropriate than having the thing memorized...
Newer checklists have boldface on them for many aircraft. This was a change that came about from best practices by professional crews who have had that for a long time. The boldface items are *required* to be committed to memory and the pro crews are tested on it. You'll talk to folks who hated "memorizing the boldface".
I've seen a pro crew from the jumpseat rattle off a call-and-response checklist completely from memory though -- when no one was looking, but the CVR was recording.
When you've done that checklist 10,000 times, you tend to have it pretty well memorized, and can change crew members out and not even notice if the other person in the cockpit is actually reading from the thing, apparently. Few of us lowly Private aviators doing it for fun are getting to read ours quite that often, so I definitely recommend having it out, organized, available and use it in front of a DE... unless your instructor knows something about your DE that we here don't!
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Welllll... your instructor knows your local DE's and their quirks better than we do, so definitely talk to him.
But the PTS link I sent you earlier was straight from the horses mouth (FAA) and it's littered with "makes appropriate use of checklist" at every single phase of the flight, from taxi, through takeoff, to cruise, to approach, to landing, and even shut-down. It's literally a line typed into each and every one of those sections.
So yeah... The FAA is a bit checklist crazed, which is not IMHO a Bad Thing(TM) but there are times in the real world where pulling out a checklist would be far less appropriate than having the thing memorized...
Newer checklists have boldface on them for many aircraft. This was a change that came about from best practices by professional crews who have had that for a long time. The boldface items are *required* to be committed to memory and the pro crews are tested on it. You'll talk to folks who hated "memorizing the boldface".
I've seen a pro crew from the jumpseat rattle off a call-and-response checklist completely from memory though -- when no one was looking, but the CVR was recording.
Few of us lowly Private aviators doing it for fun are getting to read ours quite that often, so I definitely recommend having it out, organized, available and use it in front of a DE... unless your instructor knows something about your DE that we here don't!
Very good to know, thank you! That link you sent me is I believe the same as the PTS "book" I have, hopefully.
Though the PDF was over 100 pages and my book is rather tiny.
BTW, "Flying around just having fun" doesn't have to be "non-productive" either. That's when we learn a lot fine trimming of the airplane and such. It's also when it's fun to have an aerobatic plane.
You can have checklists and anything else you normally have with you. The oral exam is open book as well.
Richard
Final Approach
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Ack...city life
I have a box full of index cards upon which I have various "productive" flights. For the post solo/pre PPC pilot, I strongly suggest sticking with only that which is found in the Pvt PTS. Brief the flight before making the drive to the airport, then again prior to engine start. Then again during the flight while moving on to next maneuver. I found doing so 'resets' the brain. Key word: relax, have fun.
Pick your weakest points and practice, practice, practice and concentrate, concentrate, concentrate. No MP3 player, etc. Yes, bracket those weak points with those manuevers you are strong in but also change it up tween manuevers. Don't linger too long on each maneuver, maybe 4 attempts at perfection then move on to the next with an 'easy' (one you are strong and confident in) maneuver tween each 'weak' manuever. Finish the flight with a max perf landing. Make your pattern crisp.
To some of you 'Top Gun" types this may seem like overkill.
Pick your weakest points and practice, practice, practice and concentrate, concentrate, concentrate. No MP3 player, etc. Yes, bracket those weak points with those manuevers you are strong in but also change it up tween manuevers. Don't linger too long on each maneuver, maybe 4 attempts at perfection then move on to the next with an 'easy' (one you are strong and confident in) maneuver tween each 'weak' manuever. Finish the flight with a max perf landing. Make your pattern crisp.
To some of you 'Top Gun" types this may seem like overkill.
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MBDiagMan
Final Approach
Wow Henning! YOU JUST MADE MY DAY!
I did not know that the oral exam is open book. I worry myself trying to memorize all the different cloud clearances for different situations and airspace designations. If I can refer to my knee board for them, that just made my oral exam a piece of cake!
Thanks,
Doc
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
Very good point. I plan on doing a zillion landings once I solo, but that's sort of in addition to the other practice that as you point out, is very worthwhile.
Doc
denverpilot
Tied Down
Haha. I think Doc's CFI was holding out on him to keep him highly motivated to study and Henning just ruined that tactic.
There are things you should have memorized. When the examiner starts a new line of questions, you should in most cases have the answer to the first two or three without a reference guide. VFR cloud clearances you should know, but better to admit needing reference than coming up with the wrong answer (but not by much). Chart symbols as well. It's not meant to be a cakewalk.
Graueradler
Pattern Altitude
If a maneuver can be done in either direction (right or left), make sure that you are practicing in both directions. I discovered during the check ride that I had always practiced turns about a point turning to the left. The examiner had me do it to the right.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Well... Not entirely.
Things that you'll have time to look up in real life ("Is it legal for you to take off at sunset with your left nav light burned out?") are fair game to look up on the exam.
Things like "You see another airplane approaching from your 10 o'clock and he doesn't appear to be moving relative to you. What is the proper course of action to avoid a collision?" you'd better know cold.
Cloud clearance requirements - You should know those cold, too. When you're flying you don't have the time to look up whether you need to clear that cloud by 500 feet or 1000.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Thanks everyone, I just got a weather brief and by the time I take off the marine layer will hopefully not be a factor today. I just wanted to post on here that I am flying (solo) - you know, in case I don't return! Someone will have to break the sad news to my Mom.
But hopefully I'll get back to the airport in one piece for my ground lesson / checkride prep discussion which starts at 3pm.
If you hear about a plane crash in the news, the last 3 of my tail number are 498 and it is a Cessna 152.
So long, cruel world....
But hopefully I'll get back to the airport in one piece for my ground lesson / checkride prep discussion which starts at 3pm.
If you hear about a plane crash in the news, the last 3 of my tail number are 498 and it is a Cessna 152.
So long, cruel world....
Everskyward
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Everskyward
Seeya, have a great time!
Shoot, she didn't tell us which funeral home she was signed up with...
Richard
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Ack...city life
Then there are the 'gotchas'. One particular favorite which applies to Kimberly is that most all CA is Class E. Look for the blue line off to the east at the Sierra. Another is kind of a joker but you would be surprised how many students fall for it:
S ...ll ...E ...R ...R...A...........N ...E ...V ...A ...D ...A
Widely spaced letters running along the mountain range, the examiner may point to the "I" and ask, What is this? Lesson: look at the whole 'forest' and not just the 'trees' when viewing a printed chart.
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EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Then there are the 'gotchas'. One particular favorite which applies to Kimberly is that most all CA is Class E. Look for the blue line off to the east at the Sierra. Another is kind of a joker but you would be surprised how many students fall for it:
S ...ll ...E ...R ...R...A...........N ...E ...V ...A ...D ...A
Widely spaced letters running along the mountain range, the examiner may point to the "I" and ask, What is this? Lesson: look at the whole 'forest' and not just the 'trees' when viewing a printed chart.
Oh man, that got a bunch of guys on the red board when someone just grabbed the "I" and asked what it was on the chart. I figured it out by mistake when he said where it was at, and I zoomed out on skyvector or runwayfinder.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Don't have one . . . .
So just haul you to the mountains or the ocean and feed you to the critters? That was always my solution as to what to do with my remains.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
I don't really know what to do with my remains, never thought about it, figured the parentals would probably do what they felt was appropriate. I'm guessing they'll want the whole open face casket. I'll be dead so I won't care I suppose?
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Only did one landing. The winds started off "normal," straight down the runway, 6-9 knots. Then they were 30 degrees to the left, so a crosswind, with 11 knots gusting to 15. Then they were 50 degrees to the left, and gusting to almost 20 - ! The "gusts" and "variable wind direction" on the AWOS are things I hate to hear. That and the overcast was just high enough to do pattern work but if the clouds were around in the practice area I could not have gone out there. So I decided to do one go around the pattern, see how it was, and then go from there. Not only was there turbulence which sucked, but I did land (must have been ok) right in front of my instructor who was taxi'ing back to the active and I asked him later how I did considering the conditions. He said he did watch my landing and it was fine.
I figured, I'm paying for this, I only have 1.5 hours of solo left, I'd rather save it for right before the checkride to practice what I need to work on instead of wasting it in crappy conditions.
Total flight time: 0.3
Total solo hours remaining per the requirements: 1.2
Confidence builder? You bet. It was more of a "you can do this" thing - and then actually doing it, knowing I had the training to be safe. Sure, it was of course not so fun so I went in. I'm still "getting used to" being tossed around by the winds which can be scary (!) when you are alone. It was never an issue when I was with my instructor but when alone it is a whole different beast . . . however I am glad for the opportunity today and for the experience because in the future I may go out on a calm wind day and by the time I come back the winds may be just like this so I need to be prepared.
Oh and then I did a 2 hour ground lesson (more like a practice oral) which went over all the paperwork and log books for the plane - I had not seen them before - and the PTS sections which refer to the oral. Afterwards, my instructor told me to prepare for a 1-2 hour flight, which if we are lucky will cover about 90% of what I need to do on the flight test! That flight is tomorrow and I need to study for that flight, haven't done some of the maneuvers since March. My guess is we will log this as "checkride prep" and "instrument" - since all I have left (dual) is 3 hours checkride prep and 1 ish hours instrument.
It is so gratifying to keep checking off the checkboxes that will get my requirements met, all of this seemed to happen so fast since my solo cross country! I filled another page in my log book today and only two of the entries were dual flights, so strange to see all that "PIC" time. Really felt like a pilot. Feeling more and more ready all the time. Bring it on!!!
Yeah, as you figured out, flying around in"crappy conditions" isn't really wasting time, because you will (not may) be coming in in even worse conditions, potentially even on your check ride, and you need to be prepared.
Everskyward
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This is the reason why I wish they had left the hour requirement for solo at 20, as it was many years ago, or at least made a compromise of 15 instead of reducing it to 10. I think the idea was that students don't learn so much on their own so it's better to have that time be taken up with instruction. However I think the mental part is at least as important as the physical skills.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Agreed, which is why I did one landing REGARDLESS of the horrible AWOS. Just to practice and know I could do it.
Now I know other instructors who put limitations on solo's (mine doesn't), so part of me didn't want to go if it would upset my instructor. I was afraid of the conversation "you checked the AWOS and still went up?" An example? The other CFI at the school writes in all his solo endorsements something like "cannot take off in winds above 10 knots" (not sure if they have to be crosswinds, I heard the whole story second hand).
However, even that endorsement would NOT matter because as I did my preflight, got gas, etc. I was worried about the weather so I listened to the AWOS at least 5 times and there was one report which said NINE knots so you would not have been breaking the rules if you took off at that moment.
Winds change so quickly! I have never ever cancelled a lesson or flight due to winds, but I know some students who do that. I think it is "unrealistic" and if you cannot deal with winds, you should not be flying.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
OK gonna pull out the PTS and my syllabus. Time to prepare for today's flight, where we are going to apparently try to do about 80 -90 percent of what is on the check ride (flight portion).
Again, no funeral home, but I usually come back alive when it is a "dual" flight so no worries there.
Leaving for the airport in 2-ish hours.
Again, no funeral home, but I usually come back alive when it is a "dual" flight so no worries there.
Leaving for the airport in 2-ish hours.
One other little thing you've brought up twice mentioning only have x.x hrs solo requirement left and not wasting it... If you learned something, it's not wasted. Actually, doing 10 T&Gs on a perfect day is probably a greater waste of time than doing 3 landings on a crappy day. You'll need to learn the same stuff regardless whether it's before you take your ride or after. The only time it made a difference really was the guys on the old G.I. Bill (not sure how the new one works) where they could apply the G.I. Bill to anything after achieving the PP. Other than that, it's a "pay now or pay later" issue where paying now is the greater value because you get more use out of it (knowledge and ability). It sounds to me like you're on a 40hr schedule, and that's fine, but if you get a chance to work on something that you don't normally get to because suddenly you have the conditions for it, you shouldn't not do it "because you only have another "1.2hrs left." Better to get the experience and practice and take the ride at 41 hrs than skip it and take the ride at 40.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Thoughts...
50 degrees off runway heading at 20 knots is a 15.3 knot crosswind component.
What's the maximum demonstrated crosswind component for your aircraft from the POH?
Were you a test pilot?
I'm not judging. I've certainly landed in conditions that were pushing the X-wind numbers. Just reminding you that some clubs have rules against exceeding the max demonstrated crosswind component and lots of insurance companies do too.
If you ball it up in a heap next to the runway and they pull the ASOS data, you might get to keep both pieces of the airplane and a big bill to the owner as your last reminders of a once-fun hobby.
On the flip side, good work NOT ending up in a heap of metal next to the runway.
Sometimes it's time to put the airplane away and play with the other toys when the wind picks up. And if it really goes nuts, finding another runway more aligned with the wind, makes sense.
What was the forecast in the TAF? Was the crosswind kicking up predicted?
50 degrees off runway heading at 20 knots is a 15.3 knot crosswind component.
What's the maximum demonstrated crosswind component for your aircraft from the POH?
Were you a test pilot?
I'm not judging. I've certainly landed in conditions that were pushing the X-wind numbers. Just reminding you that some clubs have rules against exceeding the max demonstrated crosswind component and lots of insurance companies do too.
If you ball it up in a heap next to the runway and they pull the ASOS data, you might get to keep both pieces of the airplane and a big bill to the owner as your last reminders of a once-fun hobby.
On the flip side, good work NOT ending up in a heap of metal next to the runway.
Sometimes it's time to put the airplane away and play with the other toys when the wind picks up. And if it really goes nuts, finding another runway more aligned with the wind, makes sense.
What was the forecast in the TAF? Was the crosswind kicking up predicted?
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Like I said, I did one landing even though the conditions weren't perfect, wasn't sure if it was ok to be there in those winds (I'll ask my CFI today), and my lesson was starting soon so I brought the plane in. I could have maybe done one more landing in the time I had left but did not want to be late for my appointment with my CFI.
Not sure what you mean by 40 hour schedule, I have 75 hours so far. I didn't solo until 40 hours. I don't really have any money left, this whole training is costing MORE than I ever estimated so yes I do not want to do more than the requirements but I know I will - by a lot. I just want to do that after today (go over my 10 hour solo requirements) so that I know what to work on.
Kimberly
Jeanie
Pattern Altitude
Absolutely take an opportunity to work on landings when the winds are above what has been "the norm". When you get your ticket and fly to other areas and the winds are higher than you are used to it will have helped to have gotten some good practice beforehand. So, try to budget to go up w/ a CFI when the winds are "bad".
Out here the students typical response after some practice is: Oh, good, it's only 18.
Out here the students typical response after some practice is: Oh, good, it's only 18.
denverpilot
Tied Down
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Thoughts...
50 degrees off runway heading at 20 knots is a 15.3 knot crosswind component.
What's the maximum demonstrated crosswind component for your aircraft from the POH?
Were you a test pilot?
I'm not judging. I've certainly landed in conditions that were pushing the X-wind numbers. Just reminding you that some clubs have rules against exceeding the max demonstrated crosswind component and lots of insurance companies do too.
If you ball it up in a heap next to the runway and they pull the ASOS data, you might get to keep both pieces of the airplane and a big bill to the owner as your last reminders of a once-fun hobby.
On the flip side, good work NOT ending up in a heap of metal next to the runway.
Sometimes it's time to put the airplane away and play with the other toys when the wind picks up. And if it really goes nuts, finding another runway more aligned with the wind, makes sense.
What was the forecast in the TAF? Was the crosswind kicking up predicted?
First of all, it never hit 20 and that was a "gusting to". Winds started out lower numbers. In fact, maybe I should go back and check - I maybe posted the wrong thing since "wind direction was variable".
The windsock when I landed wasn't even that straight out, thank goodness, and I could have always gone around if I needed to.
Funny how different your post is than Henning. Like you, I decided to put the plane away so to speak. Not worth flying that day. Different people always give me different advice! It could not have been too bad, my CFI saw me land and therefore he would have DEFINITELY told me if there was a problem with my landing..... maybe I got lucky and on short final / touchdown the winds went back to being straight down the runway. This post was about what the AWOS said before I took off, not necessarily when I landed.
Also, when I solo'd a few weeks ago (second solo although my first solo was in May so this was kind of like a first solo all over again) I could not believe he let me go in crosswinds / gusts (not as bad, numbers not as high) since he kept hoping the winds would improve. After 3-5 landings and compliments (he never gives praise) he got out of the plane.... so maybe his confidence in my abilities (and my confidence) is changing.
Regardless, today I will bring up these topics with him but I am more on Henning's side - I tell my CFI a lot that I'd rather practice crosswinds now during my training than find out about them after I'm a pilot. Especially because a lot of them sneak up on you and only rear their ugly head AFTER you've already departed and are therefore coming back from your flight.