How quick does your oil turn dark?

GRG55 said:
So how exactly does AeroShell 15-50 "promote" oil leaks? :confused: You make it sound as though it's attacking gaskets and seals in an effort to escape confinement. ;)

I have Lycomings. One of the reasons I don't like Phillips oil is because I have to add the Lycoming additive separately. As you top off oil between oil changes it becomes a PITA to keep maintaining the right ratio of additive. I used to run Phillips in my last airplane, and frankly can't tell any difference.
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For what it's worth, you do not need to run the Lycoming additive in all Lycoming engines. You can put whatever you want in the engines unless it is specified by AD to use the additive.

Camguard produced some documentation saying that the Aeroshell oil with the Lycoming additive in it attacked oil seals. I can't say that I've seen increased oil leaks on Aeroshell engines vs. Phillips engines though. It seems like they all leak.
 
I haven't noticed any green tint myself. If anything, mine has more of a reddish brown tint.
 
GRG55 said:
So how exactly does AeroShell 15-50 "promote" oil leaks? :confused: You make it sound as though it's attacking gaskets and seals in an effort to escape confinement. ;)

I have Lycomings. One of the reasons I don't like Phillips oil is because I have to add the Lycoming additive separately. As you top off oil between oil changes it becomes a PITA to keep maintaining the right ratio of additive. I used to run Phillips in my last airplane, and frankly can't tell any difference.
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There were a few studies of corrosion and the cam guard made a large difference, in both the 20w and the 15w, it's a little more than just the lyc additive.

I add it when I do a oil change, and I don't burn enough between changes to care too much about the ratio.

For my plane which can sit for times, with where I live that can range between -20f to +90f, that split weight, and with X/C being cheaper and more prevalent at random FBOs, XC 20W and cam guard works great.
 
Joshuajayg said:
That's true for any oil.
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Not so.
Mineral oils are different from semi-synthetic ashless dispersant oils. When mineral oil starts to darken it means it is oxidizing/breaking down - an indication it's time to think about changing it regardless of hours.
 
GlennAB1 said:
It's a multigrade 15w50, it has a 15 weight viscosity in winter and 50 weight viscosity in all others
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You need to see how it pours thru a viscosity cup. It's a 15 weight oil that has been fortified to protect like a 50 weight at all temps.
All mineral oils for aircraft are an ashless oil "A" that does not have a "D"ispersant additive.
All oils used in aircraft oil as base stocks are of the "A" type, that only means they will not produce a metallic ash when burned.
there are only two basic types of oil, they are typed by where they came from. Lipid (synthetic) oils are any oil that is man made that do not have a petroleum base, such as caster oil, made from the caster bean. All other oils are a "M"ineral oil refined from crude oil base stock.
When any oil turns black it does it for 1 of 2 reasons or both. it has picked up carbon from the cylinder walls or it is has been over heated and is turning back to its natural form, which is carbon.

READ::::> http://www.eci.aero/pdf/BreakInInstructions.pdf = "oil talk for dummies" included in these breaking instructions
 
GRG55 said:
Not so.
Mineral oils are different from semi-synthetic ashless dispersant oils. When mineral oil starts to darken it means it is oxidizing/breaking down - an indication it's time to think about changing it regardless of hours.
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OXIDATION simply means it is being burned.( as in over heated )
But the oil may be simply contaminated by carbon picked up by excessive blow by.
 
mondtster said:
For what it's worth, you do not need to run the Lycoming additive in all Lycoming engines.
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Thank you very much for that. just because you run a "L" engine you don't need the snake oil.
READ the AD for lycoming requirements.
 
Tom-D said:
.
there are only two basic types of oil, they are typed by where they came from. Lipid (synthetic) oils are any oil that is man made that do not have a petroleum base, such as caster oil, made from the caster bean. All other oils are a "M"ineral oil refined from crude oil base stock.
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Where do you get this stuff? It certainly isn't in the ECI document. Are you attempting to say all synthetic oils are lipids?
 
Aeroshell 15-50 is semi-synthetic. It tends to be runnier than Phillips and oil seeps are more common as a result. TCM starter clutches slip more with semi-syn as well. How did I learn about these traits? Ben Visser of Aeroshell advised me to switch away from 15-50 while chatting with him after a presentation he gave. The breather drool comment has been proven in many airplanes that I've seen make the change as well. Mine is the best example I can offer and the difference was obvious.
 
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Clark1961 said:
Where do you get this stuff? It certainly isn't in the ECI document. Are you attempting to say all synthetic oils are lipids?
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If not... what pure 100% synthetic is mineral based?
What do you believe this means ?
Synthetic oil-
Produced by chemical synthesis of compounds reacting with other chemicals to have characteristics similar to mineral oil.
 
Stewartb said:
Aeroshell 15-50 is semi-synthetic. It tends to be runnier than Phillips and oil seeps are more common as a result. TCM starter clutches slip more with semi-syn as well. How did I learn about these traits? Ben Visser of Aeroshell advised me to switch away from 15-50 while chatting with him after a presentation he gave. The breather drool comment has been proven in many airplanes that I've seen make the change as well. Mine is the best example I can offer and the difference was obvious.
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This has been proven time and time again.
 
Here is a question for Clark.
what would be result of treating whale oil by chemical synthesis to meet the requirements of MIL‐L‐22851 or MIL‐L‐6082?

What would you have ?
 
Tom-D said:
Here is a question for Clark.
what would be result of treating whale oil by chemical synthesis to meet the requirements of MIL‐L‐22851 or MIL‐L‐6082?

What would you have ?
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An oil that meets the specified requirements.
 
Tom-D said:
Nice, avoid the obvious because to answer the question is to admit I was right.
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I avoided nothing while accurately answering the question. Just because you assume you are correct does not make it so. Synthetic oils in use today are made by combining short hydrocarbon chains to make a specific length hydrocarbon chain. Nothing more, nothing less. Could other feedstocks such as organic matter be used? Of course they could but it would more than double the cost since the organic matter would have to be harvested, processed and then broken down to short hydrocarbon chains. Folks are working on processes to reduce the cost but there have been no commercial successes to date.
 
Clark1961 said:
I avoided nothing while accurately answering the question. Just because you assume you are correct does not make it so. Synthetic oils in use today are made by combining short hydrocarbon chains to make a specific length hydrocarbon chain. Nothing more, nothing less. Could other feedstocks such as organic matter be used? Of course they could but it would more than double the cost since the organic matter would have to be harvested, processed and then broken down to short hydrocarbon chains. Folks are working on processes to reduce the cost but there have been no commercial successes to date.
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by mr. Webster:
syn·thet·ic
sinˈTHedik/
adjective
  1. 1.
    (of a substance) made by chemical synthesis, especially to imitate a natural product.
    "synthetic rubber"


  2. 2.
    LOGIC
    (of a proposition) having truth or falsity determinable by recourse to experience.

    Hydrocarbons are a natural substance. Synthetic means they imitate. what you are describing is called blending.
 
Tom-D said:
by mr. Webster:
syn·thet·ic
sinˈTHedik/
adjective
  1. 1.
    (of a substance) made by chemical synthesis, especially to imitate a natural product.
    "synthetic rubber"
  2. 2.
    LOGIC
    (of a proposition) having truth or falsity determinable by recourse to experience.

    Hydrocarbons are a natural substance. Synthetic means they imitate. what you are describing is called blending.
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No Tom, it is not. The difference here is that I know what I'm typing about and you don't. The short hydrocarbon chains are combined at specific pressures and temperatures in the presence of a catalyst to form the longer hydrocarbon chains. Short hydrocarbon chains cannot be "blended" to magically become longer hydrocarbon chains.

You can offer an apology for your errors and arrogant attitude at any time now. HTH and HAND
 
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Checkout_my_Six said:
y'all need to get a room....:wonderwoman:
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No need for a room. Need a pig pin to continue. It's sad when an otherwise mostly competent person just refuses to accept that they are ignorant on a particular topic.
 
Seems pretty important to you to be right as well!

The original topic was interesting. The follow-on not so much.
 
Stewartb said:
Seems pretty important to you to be right as well!

The original topic was interesting. The follow-on not so much.
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Agreed .... when Clark doesn't believe the meaning of the word synthesis. why argue?
 
Tom-D said:
Agreed .... when Clark doesn't believe the meaning of the word synthesis. why argue?
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Show me where I argued the meaning of the word synthesis. That's right, you can't. Stop making things up Tom.
 
Back to OP....just checked mine on a fairly new overhaul. 10 hours still pretty clear. I change at 25. Don't feel $50 worth of oil is too much to baby my $17,000 overhauled engine 2 or 3 times a year.
 
GlennAB1 said:
"pig pin" WTF?
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You most likely don't know I worked 4 years at the Shell refinery as a operator, you don't get that position with out taking all the company training.

And for Clark,, I didn't make up the web page that proves you wrong.

For the rest of ya, semi synthetic oil we use in our engines is a blend of nature petroleum oil and a synthetic oil produced by other means. with a brand name additives. some for corrosion protection, some for wear. what ever the brand name companies want.
 
OkieFlyer said:
Maybe I should have changed the title to "How Quickly does Your Thread Go Dark?"
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What makes this thread is any different than any other thread in this forum?
 
Clark1961 said:
Show me where I argued the meaning of the word synthesis. That's right, you can't. Stop making things up Tom.
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Your statements show you simply don't know what it means, so I liked webster.
 
flyingriki said:
Back to OP....just checked mine on a fairly new overhaul. 10 hours still pretty clear. I change at 25. Don't feel $50 worth of oil is too much to baby my $17,000 overhauled engine 2 or 3 times a year.
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as you should.
 
Stewartb said:
Seems pretty important to you to be right as well!

The original topic was interesting. The follow-on not so much.
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The thread op's question was answered in post 49.
 
GlennAB1 said:
"pig pin" WTF?
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Meant 'pig pen' I think.....sounds like somebody knows his chemistry and somebody doesn't but wants to talk out his butt. Am glad to learn a little about this stuff. I gather the "Tom" is someone I blocked long ago, with good reason...
 
GRG55 said:
Not so.
Mineral oils are different from semi-synthetic ashless dispersant oils.
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in as much as they are a blend, when straight mineral oil has no additives, but is still an ashless oil, that when burned will leave no metallic ash that can cause preignition.
 
flyingriki said:
Meant 'pig pen' I think.....sounds like somebody knows his chemistry and somebody doesn't....am glad to learn a little about this stuff.
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And who do you believe had the Shell company training as to what blending, and synthesis, and how to do it.

If you didn't know, blending is to combine two natural mineral oils to get a hybrid oil that is better than either separately.
synthesis, is a method that makes a new substance by using two different substances when treated with high temps, and third chemicals.
With synthesis we can make lipid oils mimic petroleum products.

Things to remember :
all of our world is a carbon chain in different forms, when we try, we can convert those carbon chain molecules to about any thing we want, the most rememberable is treating cellulose with nitric acid, synthesis result = dynamite.
 
Stewartb said:
Seems pretty important to you to be right as well!

The original topic was interesting. The follow-on not so much.
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Do you know what Clark does for a living?

GlennAB1 said:
"pig pin" WTF?
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flyingriki said:
Meant 'pig pen' I think.....sounds like somebody knows his chemistry and somebody doesn't but wants to talk out his butt. Am glad to learn a little about this stuff. I gather the "Tom" is someone I blocked long ago, with good reason...
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I think he meant "big pin", as "stick a pin in it".

Tom the refinery operator (for a short time), is arguing with Clark the petroleum engineer (for decades).

Tom wanted Clark to confirm an assumption he has, and Clark said "nope, not how it works", surprising Tom.

That's pretty much all one needs to know about the side thread that started. No biggie. Carry on.
 
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