How much TT is too much?

JCranford

JCranford

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JCranford
When does a high time plane become too high time to consider buying? Lots to consider, I know. Assume none of the time was training. Most was commercial operation (think fish spotting, pipeline flying, that sorta thing). Resale might be an issue too of course.

What ya think?
 
My brother did over 30K in pipeline patrol. They pretty well scrapped the planes at 15K due to cracks.
 
Most airframes have lifetime limits. Hard to say exactly though.
 
Different planes have lifetime limits on parts I think.

This was not a very helpful answer
 
Great question! Would 10,000 hours be too much TT on older Bonanza like a 1977 F33? The reason is prices are better deal on one that I'm considering that has a low time new factory engine. What is the maximum factory tolerance for most airframes before metal fatigue turns the plane into an aluminum can?
 
Blueangel said:
Great question! Would 10,000 hours be too much TT on older Bonanza like a 1977 F33? The reason is prices are better deal on one that I'm considering that has a low time new factory engine. What is the maximum factory tolerance for most airframes before metal fatigue turns the plane into an aluminum can?
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depends.....cracks, multiple repair patches....and corrosion are deal breakers for me.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
they do?????....where would one find that for a C172?
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Look inside the wing spars, at the wing root and inside near the rudder. Looks like a white or reddish chalkiness and will push through with pressure from a screw driver. Airframe is time out!!
 
Blueangel said:
Great question! Would 10,000 hours be too much TT on older Bonanza like a 1977 F33? The reason is prices are better deal on one that I'm considering that has a low time new factory engine. What is the maximum factory tolerance for most airframes before metal fatigue turns the plane into an aluminum can?
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I say yes. You're on the backside of the curve if ya asked me, which you kinda did, but not really, so I'll answer as if you did.
 
At around 10K hours on a Cessna I'd want a SID inspection. If it passes that? No worries. I know a few Cessnas with more than that and no, there's no rules. It's just what I'd do.
 
Unit74 said:
Most airframes have lifetime limits. Hard to say exactly though.
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Unit74 said:
Look inside the wing spars, at the wing root and inside near the rudder. Looks like a white or reddish chalkiness and will push through with pressure from a screw driver. Airframe is time out!!
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what you describe....is an inspection....not a "life limit"
 
Depends of the airframe.

Watcha lookin' at?
 
The 182RG is one of the nicest-flying airplanes. A real pussycat. There are some weaknesses: the main landing gear leg trunnions crack. The MLG actuators had cracking issues in some earlier castings. The fuselage bulkheads aft of the baggage compartment crack; look at the lower corners and the cutouts where the electrical cable bundle passes through. The nosegear actuator anchor in the floor tends to work loose. The door hinges crack; the fuselage flexes around the doorframes in turbulence and loads the hinges. None of this stuff is cheap. Check the time since the hydraulic systems were last overhauled; a single worn-out O-ring in a gear actuator or the gear selector valve can leave you with no options but a gear-up landing.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
they do?????....where would one find that for a C172?
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Didn't Cessna Life Limit the SE airframe in their Supplemental Inspection Document stating, "“Retirement of this airframe is recommended when 30,000 flight hours have been accumulated.”
 
Axtel4 said:
Didn't Cessna Life Limit the SE airframe in their Supplemental Inspection Document stating, "“Retirement of this airframe is recommended when 30,000 flight hours have been accumulated.”
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Not regulatory in US for pt 91.

And that thing is 15k, or more, over priced
 
Was that 182rg a former FBI plane? Sounds about right, hours and vintage wise. The FBI Cessnas were well maintained during their use with the bureau.

As far as valuation, ignore the tire kickers here and seek an appraiser if you want an accurate price estimate. Or at least do your research. There are folks here that will try to convince you that no matter what you'd paid you paid too much.

And no, you're not going to get that 182RG for $40k.
 
Nice cross country planes, but handle like trucks - "ponderous" comes to mind. Look at the firewall, for sure. I have no evidence, other than personal preference, but it is too high time. My subjective prejudice is against that many hours on a personal GA plane. . .
 
Dan Thomas said:
The 182RG is one of the nicest-flying airplanes. A real pussycat. There are some weaknesses: the main landing gear leg trunnions crack. The MLG actuators had cracking issues in some earlier castings. The fuselage bulkheads aft of the baggage compartment crack; look at the lower corners and the cutouts where the electrical cable bundle passes through. The nosegear actuator anchor in the floor tends to work loose. The door hinges crack; the fuselage flexes around the doorframes in turbulence and loads the hinges. None of this stuff is cheap. Check the time since the hydraulic systems were last overhauled; a single worn-out O-ring in a gear actuator or the gear selector valve can leave you with no options but a gear-up landing.
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Yep! There's one sitting in the mechanics hangar on my field waiting for the insurance company to cut the 30,000 check to get the plane fixed after a right main gear collapse.
 
Unit74 said:
Most airframes have lifetime limits. Hard to say exactly though.
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I call BS on this statement, but I'm not an expert.

Please provide some examples of "Most airframes". Most that I know of have no lifetime limit. They are inspected periodically (100-hours or annually) and can go on indefinitely.

I know of SOME airframes that have lifetime limits, such as the Robinson helicopters which must have the airframes overhauled based on hours and/or years. I think the Piper Tomahawk has a life limit on the wings.

I suppose commercial airliners may have lifetime limits, and maybe some military? I wouldn't know, but I highly doubt that MOST airframes have limits.
 
Unit74 said:
Most airframes have lifetime limits. Hard to say exactly though.
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Really? It's uncommon in small GA stuff. About the only one I know of is the PA-38, and that's just the wing (though it's a big part).
 
A lot of the local flight schools around here have 172s with over 20,000 hours on them.
 
I fly a 1972 182p with over 11k hours. My annual does get a bit more then the usual look over when it comes to the spar and the strut connections but that is just piece of mind for me. No issues with flying an old bird as long as its a taken care of old bird.
 
I've flown a 172P with 21000 hours. Yes it was tired, but it got the job done.
 
JCranford said:
1981 182RG. 11500TT, way overpriced I'd say. I think I'm just bedazzled by the white interior.
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Only 11,500 hrs TT? It's just getting broken in! But really, the ones that caught my eye on Controller.com were the 3 ex-check hauler Cessna 210s, 1975-77 models with 18300, 19000, 21600 hours! Listed for $85K each. New interiors, new paint, new engines, crappy old panels; perhaps the price is decent for a 210L or M, but still... 21000 hrs of freight dog time can be a pretty rough life.
 
Axtel4 said:
Didn't Cessna Life Limit the SE airframe in their Supplemental Inspection Document stating, "“Retirement of this airframe is recommended when 30,000 flight hours have been accumulated.”
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I can't remember seeing any aircraft in GA that ever made it that far. Even the old Aztecs used by the check haulers didn't make it that far. The Beech 18 military surplus (SNB) being the exception.
 
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