How many hours of training before Commercial sign-off?

Trogdor

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Trogdor
Did a few searches, didn’t really come up with much minus a nice thread about an accelerated course.

Generally speaking, how many hours of flight time before you were ready for your CPL check?
 
If you already have the cross-country and other requirements complete, it should not take very much. Quite honestly I had one prospective CPL due it in the 3 required hours of training for the check-ride endorsement, but he was quite an accomplished and experienced pilot already. It was merely checking the box for him. Honestly he should have been teaching me.

Looking at my logbook, I see only had 3.7 hours dual in advance of my check-ride.

Other than the few additional maneuvers the CPL has (such as chandelle, lazy eights, etc.) the flying portion of the CPL is much like a PPL with stricter tolerances.
 
Far 61.129 has specifics on how much training is required. The responses you get will be varied depending on what training you’ve already received that will count toward the rating being sought.

I assume we’re talking airplane single engine land?
 
Yes, ASEL. Dual hours i’m talking about here for maneuvers.
 
My CFII says usually 10-20 hours (20 is on the high side).

Again this is not counting the checkbox items like XC trips.
 
I had 10 hours of flight instruction toward my Commercial. That included 4 hours of instrument training to bring that number up to the requirement, and figuring out some Commercial maneuvers that my instructor had never seen before since they were recent additions.
 
Yes, ASEL. Dual hours i’m talking about here for maneuvers.

It’s not about dual hours, it’s about you meeting the standards for the maneuvers. Some pilots struggle with the maneuvers because they never understood some basic principles and don’t think they need too.
 
That’s hard to say, I have had students that are ready even before they meet the minimum requirement. I have had students that needed more, even to the point I asked how they even got through PPL and instrument.
 
It’s not about dual hours, it’s about you meeting the standards for the maneuvers. Some pilots struggle with the maneuvers because they never understood some basic principles and don’t think they need too.

That’s all well and good. I’m looking for some overall trends. There will always be outliers but just like your private, there is a range most fit into.
 
Did my CSEL at Sheble. Three flights and a checkride.

MEL add-on was two and a checkride.

Same long weekend for both.
 
That’s all well and good. I’m looking for some overall trends. There will always be outliers but just like your private, there is a range most fit into.

Unlike the private where every student starts at zero hours, the typical Part 61 student starts Commercial training with twice the flight experience of the 141 student.
 
10-20 hours sounds right. Practice the maneuvers and meet the requirements, you’ll be good to go.
 
How much does having your Instrument help the process?
 
How much does having your Instrument help the process?
Assuming your instructor logged things the way they need to be logged for the commercial, it saves you up to 10 hours of instrument instruction.
 
The Limitations on a VFR Commercial certificate are also one of the things that bumped me up to two cards for my pilot certificate. ;)
 
How much does having your Instrument help the process?

It depends on what you are meaning with that inquiry. As already mentioned, having the instrument rating may satisfy the instrument training requirement. Aside from that, I think recent instrument training and flying is a detriment rather than a help.
 
10-20 is about right. I found lazy 8s and the power off 180 to be the most challenging. Eights on pylons were easy and chandelles were really just figuring out how much up pitch was needed.
 
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Interesting. I was thinking the greater precision needed for ifr flying would be of help - but you think the opposite is true?
 
I have to agree with 10-20. I’m at 9 dual now. All performance maneuvers are on spec… landings are dreadful.

I think my instrument was useful because I’m much more precise now with my headings, altitudes, and speeds…. And those instruments are in my scan (without fixating on any one). Both habits I picked up during my instrument training.
 
Interesting. I was thinking the greater precision needed for ifr flying would be of help - but you think the opposite is true?

Yes, because almost without fail a commercial student who recently finished instrument training or is primarily flying instruments will have their head buried in the instrument panel. People need to be looking out the window; Instrument skills are not being taught or tested, stick and rudder skills are. It’s pretty easy to tell who is trying to fly the commercial maneuvers by instruments and who is looking out the window to accomplish them.
 
So you’d recommend a newly minted instrument pilot to not jump right into commercial?
 
So you’d recommend a newly minted instrument pilot to not jump right into commercial?

Some people get obsessed with training and seem to lose sight of actually enjoying what they’re doing. Plus, if all the flight time is spent with an instructor there is little opportunity for a pilot to experience things and have to figure them out on their own. So yes, I am an advocate of flying a bit between each certificate/rating rather than jumping from one to the next.
 
Yes, because almost without fail a commercial student who recently finished instrument training or is primarily flying instruments will have their head buried in the instrument panel. People need to be looking out the window; Instrument skills are not being taught or tested, stick and rudder skills are. It’s pretty easy to tell who is trying to fly the commercial maneuvers by instruments and who is looking out the window to accomplish them.

This! You spend so much time in the cockpit when working on your instrument, you almost forget how to fly looking outside. When jumping from one to the other, you almost need to cover up the panel to force a student to change their habit!
 
So you’d recommend a newly minted instrument pilot to not jump right into commercial?
Depends. If you’re planning a few trips with your instrument rating in the near future, I’d hold off on flight training for the commercial. Obviously the book work, etc, can be started, but you’re going to be at cross purposes with instrument practice and commercial training at the same time.
 
I could have went right from instrument to commercial but would have still needed 130 hours of flight time.
 
FWIW. I’m doing this for a hobby to take my wife places, $100 hamburger, etc. The reason I might do commercial is to 1) get better, and 2) I might want to be a CFI when retire in a few years - and that is a prerequisite.

I’d rather not jump back into flight training and take a break to fly for fun. So if I’m not missing some window by jumping right into it I’ll take a little time “off”.
 
The reason I might do commercial is to 1) get better, and 2) I might want to be a CFI when retire in a few years - and that is a prerequisite.
Sorry for hijacking the thread, but these are the very reasons that make me think of becoming a CFI in future. Anybody with experience of instructing as a part-time activity after retirement? I see a great majority of very young instructors on their way to the airlines, and I wonder how an older retired instructor would fit in the mix. Also, I assume that the money would not be fantastic, but hopefully somebody can tell me that it would still be better than being a diving instructor (A qualification that I already have, and that is practically worthless in monetary terms...).
 
The best CFI I had was someone not headed off to the airlines. IMHO we need more CFIs who want to teach and not log hours.

CFIs here make $50 per clock hour.
 
Sorry for hijacking the thread, but these are the very reasons that make me think of becoming a CFI in future. Anybody with experience of instructing as a part-time activity after retirement? I see a great majority of very young instructors on their way to the airlines, and I wonder how an older retired instructor would fit in the mix. Also, I assume that the money would not be fantastic, but hopefully somebody can tell me that it would still be better than being a diving instructor (A qualification that I already have, and that is practically worthless in monetary terms...).
Depending upon where you are and how hard you’re willing to work at being a quality instructor, you could probably build a decent clientele.

I’d suggest a new thread, though…not because of the hijack, but because an appropriately titled thread would get you better responses.
 
The CPL is the easiest, most fun rating to get imho. I did the training right after the instrument and it was like a fun vacation to put the eyes outside. Chandelles are a gas. I opted not to do the check ride for a couple reasons, not the least of which was I had no plans ever to fly for pay, but I got a signoff from my CFI.

Go for it, you'll be a more precise pilot for it.
 
The best CFI I had was someone not headed off to the airlines. IMHO we need more CFIs who want to teach and not log hours.

CFIs here make $50 per clock hour.

I charge $25/hr for primary instruction or transition training/signoffs because I just want to pass the knowledge along. When I give flight reviews they always insist on giving me at least a hundo.
 
I’d rather not jump back into flight training and take a break to fly for fun. So if I’m not missing some window by jumping right into it I’ll take a little time “off”.

You’re not missing a thing. Perhaps the best time to work on the commercial certificate is when you need to reset the clock on a flight review?
 
FWIW. I’m doing this for a hobby to take my wife places, $100 hamburger, etc. The reason I might do commercial is to 1) get better, and 2) I might want to be a CFI when retire in a few years - and that is a prerequisite.

I’d rather not jump back into flight training and take a break to fly for fun. So if I’m not missing some window by jumping right into it I’ll take a little time “off”.
Sounds very similar to me, except someone convinced me that insurance will be lower with commercial. I’d say don’t do it right away. Do it next year. Or whenever. I’m doing mine now because 1) I’m actually about to purchase a plane, 2) my BFR is due in June, and 3) I literally have nothing to do before 15 February / 1 March.
 
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