How Many Hours from a 172 to a 414?

John Hartwick said:
It was two weeks ago... If anyone knows an insurer who would write this policy, I would love to talk to that insurer, even with a 50-75hr co-pilot/mentor transition plan (if I could find the mentor).
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Wingsinsurance.com
 
James_Dean said:
Wingsinsurance.com
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Hey Ted - thanks for the referral - Steve is a really nice guy and full of information. He will be a big help down the road. As to this thread though, same thing. Need about 700 hours of total time including a fair amount of multi engine time before an insurer would consider a new pilot on a 340, let alone a 414. (You are no longer that new of a pilot at that point - Ha)
 
John Hartwick said:
Hey Ted - thanks for the referral - Steve is a really nice guy and full of information. He will be a big help down the road. As to this thread though, same thing. Need about 700 hours of total time including a fair amount of multi engine time before an insurer would consider a new pilot on a 340, let alone a 414. (You are no longer that new of a pilot at that point - Ha)
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That does not make sense.
I switched to an Areostar at 700 with roughly 350 hours in an SR20 and 15 hours in a Seminole. I got insurance no problem, required transition training and 25 hours mentoring (I volunteered 50 hours mentoring, underwriter reduced it)

Tim

Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk
 
Why not just get a 414 and complete training in it? I mean, a zero time student can go out and buy a UC-78 and start flight training in it. And end up after the PP checkride, with PPMEL, and also have taildragger endorsement, and complex endorsement. But probably have an "ME only" restriction on it. (granted an extreme hypothetical scenario)
I know a guy who bought a Bonanza, for his PP training aircraft. His thought was this: "I learned in it from day one, No transition to contend with"
 
If this was 1942, you would have about 425 hours by the time you landed your B-17 in Great Britain and began flying missions. :D
 
I don't know if anybody has mentioned this scenario yet. But, you can hire a pilot that is named as the insured pilot for the 414 and have him fly with you while you build hours, you'll have to do that for the first 15-50 hours anyway for the insurance company. Get your ME and IR, then you are "legal" to fly the 414, the hired gun sits right seat and makes sure you don't kill him or anyone else. After a year or when you get 100 hours of 414 time, you'll be insurable. ;)
 
bluerooster said:
Why not just get a 414 and complete training in it? I mean, a zero time student can go out and buy a UC-78 and start flight training in it. And end up after the PP checkride, with PPMEL, and also have taildragger endorsement, and complex endorsement. But probably have an "ME only" restriction on it. (granted an extreme hypothetical scenario)
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There won't be an "ME Only restriction" on it, but it will only be for Airplane Multiengine Land. To fly a single, he'd need to meet the requirements and take a checkride in a single, at which point the certificate would say Airplane Single and Multiengine Land.
 
3393RP said:
If this was 1942, you would have about 425 hours by the time you landed your B-17 in Great Britain and began flying missions. :D
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If this were 1932 (and B-17s existed) you'd be giving instruction in them with about 20 or so hours total time. ;)
My how times have changed.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
Except that they lost as many in training as they did in combat
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Yup. And many crashed while circling the base waiting to join up with the others taking off. 10 men each plane.
 
We had an FAA ATC Rep at an Air Force that was a B-17 pilot in WWII. Said they transitioned him to a P-51D (single seat) without a checkout. He said basically if you could handle a T-6 in flight school a P-51 wasn't a problem. Cool guy, good stories.
 
bluerooster said:
If this were 1932 (and B-17s existed) you'd be giving instruction in them with about 20 or so hours total time. ;)
My how times have changed.
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.

My late friend USAAF COL Ralph W. Evans started basic flight training in 1942. He was selected as a pilot for heavy bombers, working his way through the normal training syllabus common at the time. He did his initial B-17 training with the 76th Flying Training Wing at Smyrna Army Airfield, Tennessee. He then completed his B-29 familiarization training in a modified B-17, picking a crew along the way. The crew completed B-29 transition training, which lasted four weeks and covered about 60 hours of actual flight time. At the end of that training, he and the crew flew to the Glenn L. Martin B-29 Bomber plant in Omaha and were assigned a B-29 that had just come out of the Martin factory and the post construction modification program on base.

Ralph and the crew boarded their aircraft and flew to San Francisco, then on to Honolulu. After waiting a couple of days for favorable weather, they flew to Midway Island, refueled, and continued on to Saipan, arriving in April 1945. After three weeks of operational training, Ralph and the crew began flying bombing missions over Japan.

Ralph celebrated his twenty first birthday four days after arriving on Saipan.
 
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3393RP said:
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My late friend USAAF COL Ralph E. Evans started basic flight training in 1942. He was selected as a pilot for heavy bombers, working his way through the normal training syllabus common at the time. He did his initial B-17 training with the 76th Flying Training Wing at Smyrna Army Airfield, Tennessee. He then completed his B-29 familiarization training in a modified B-17, picking a crew along the way. The crew completed B-29 transition training, which lasted four weeks and covered about 60 hours of actual flight time. At the end of that training, he and the crew flew to the Glenn L. Martin B-29 Bomber plant in Omaha and were assigned a B-29 that had just come out of the Martin factory and the post construction modification program on base.

Ralph and the crew boarded their aircraft and flew to San Francisco, then on to Honolulu. After waiting a couple of days for favorable weather, they flew to Midway Island, refueled, and continued on to Saipan, arriving in April 1945. After three weeks of operational training, Ralph and the crew began flying bombing missions over Japan.

Ralph celebrated his twenty first birthday four days after arriving on Saipan.
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Amazing story, thanks.
 
This post brought up some bad memories for me. Don't be too eager to move up. Experience means a lot when going to a faster, more complex airplane. Things go bad a lot quicker, and some pilots think they more capable plane makes them a better pilot.

My cousin's husband had been flying all of about 14 months when he moved up from his 182 to a 401. He had around 100 hours when he got his multi-engine rating and was a VFR pilot only. He quickly bought a 401. Some of his other pilot friends and I voiced our concerns about having this much airplane so early. He wasn't hurting for money, but it seemed he would hold off on some maintenance due to cost. He had tried to have a new GPS installed, but it didn't work and they pulled it to get it checked. He didn't have it when he flew into a mountain. He killed himself, my Cousin, their 4 children, and my Aunt. I'll never forget the way it devastated my Mom and other members of the family, not to mention the community where they were loved in Wichita Falls.

I'm not saying this story has anything to do with your friend, but it's always in the back of my mind when I hear about someone moving up because they can afford to.
 
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Munson was flying with a CFI, practicing approaches and landings at the time, as far as I can tell (I only know what I can find in press stories and online, for whatever that's worth.)

So, maybe he was moving up too fast for his experience because he could afford to... or maybe not; whatever went wrong, went wrong fast enough that his CFI didn't correct it either.

But then, I only have about 300 hours, so in the big picture I'm still a beginner; I don't think I'm quite ready to second-guess these things yet---tempting though it is.
 
Lowflynjack said:
This post brought up some bad memories for me. Don't be too eager to move up. Experience means a lot when going to a faster, more complex airplane. Things go bad a lot quicker, and some pilots think their more capable plane makes them a better pilot.

My cousin's husband had been flying all of about 14 months when he moved up from his 182 to a 401. He had around 100 hours when he got his multi-engine rating and was a VFR pilot only. Myself and some of his pilot friends voiced out concerns about having this much airplane so early. He wasn't hurting for money, but it seemed he would hold off on some maintenance. He had tried to have a new GPS installed, but it didn't work and they pulled it to get it checked. He didn't have it when he flew into a mountain. He killed himself, my Cousin, their 4 children, and my Aunt. I'll never forget the way it devastated my Mom and other members of the family, not to mention the community where they were loved in Wichita Falls.

I'm not saying this story has anything to do with your friend, but it's always in the back of my mind when I hear about someone moving up because they can afford to.
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Thanks Jack! I am terribly sorry to hear that your family went through such a thing and it can't be fun sharing it.

My friend had moved his position to buying the 414 and hiring a pilot, or having a few pilots lined up so he would have one when necessary. As he got further into it, the potential maintenance costs for two 1600 TBO engines and other expensive maintenance moved him away from the idea. Your story made me pleased that he did. As of February he will be my stepson in law and I have grown quite fond of he and his family.

Thanks again Jack and thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread.
 
BTW Jack, another of my future stepsons in law works in a building adjacent to the Taylor airport. I keep thinking that I will get in there someday amd try to catch you.
 
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