How many "flyable days" in the PNW?

rtk11

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I've got a job opportunity that would mean a relocation for me and my family to the Pacific NorthWest (Bothell, WA area.) It seems the cost of living is pretty close to Southern California, so that's a "wash", though I expect that we'll consume a lot more electricity.

For those that live up in the Seattle, Redmond, Bothell or Bellevue, WA areas, I wanted to ask about:

1. Number of days per year where a Sport PIlot might be able to fly
2. Number of airports around as most seem to be south of Seattle
3. Availability of hangars in the general area

The area is certainly wet enough that I wouldn't want to leave my aircraft out at a tie-down for a long period of time.

Any POAers out there in the PNW that can advise?
 
actually, in the Bothell area, housing is a bit cheaper and you're closer to some affordable airports. If you have to get to Bellevue or Seattle, where a lot of the $$$ tech jobs are, then yes, that housing is more expensive.

For you, I'd look at Snohomish and Paine. Your only other alternatives are coming all the way through the crap to get to Renton or BFI, both are an hour or more through traffic from Bothell, but Snohomish should be super reachable.

Our summers tend to be GORGEOUS and sport pilots as well as non-instrument private pilots can do a lot of flying for 4 months. the rest of the year it's hit or miss, but you can get up every month of the year

Also, your personal minimums will be important. LOTS of overcast days, but many are perfectly fine with high cielings (4K or above) that you can easily do lots of VFR flight underneath.
 
Many of you don't try to play at high altitudes
 
Summer was on a Thursday last year and I had to work. :(

Seriously though ... I was based in Vancouver WA 1995-2016 and got a lot of good flying in. From about the first of July to mid-September there is nothing like flying in the Pacific Northwest. It is spectacular, with only occasional weather glitches. There is some summer convection east of the Cascades, but rarely west.

From about the beginning of March to the beginning of July, and mid-September to mid-November, you might be grounded for a few days at a time for weather. The rest of the year you may be down for weeks at a time -- but that's ok; your hangar door might be frozen shut anyway. You will learn the meaning of that uniquely northwest meteorological term: "sunbreak". When you see one in winter you drop whatever you're doing and race to the airport to go flying. Not just because you enjoy flying, but because you know that long periods of inactivity are bad for the airplane, so it's a maintenance obligation; it may be your only chance for several days at least. I learned my battery held enough charge to still start the engine after three weeks ... not four.

As a sport pilot you stay out of clouds anyway. But for those who do fly in IMC in the Northwest, ice is not to be trifled with. The clouds west of the Cascades are notorious icemakers.

Enjoy your PNW flying. There is much to see and do. Check out the message board at http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.com/index.php . Much helpful local knowledge and advice there.
 
I bundle up and fly cold winter days whenever I can. As long as there's no visible moisture, and I can get ceilings around 1,600 feet at my home drome in Class E airspace, its at least good enough to go do a couple of touch and goes. And, when ceilings and vis are better (and the winds behave), there's nothing like doing a little sight-seeing in the mountains. As a renter, I logged 50 hours from last October through May.
 
A buddy lives in Tacoma. Retired with $ to burn. Hardly gets to our fly-in due to ceilings....
 
I've got a job opportunity that would mean a relocation for me and my family to the Pacific NorthWest (Bothell, WA area.) It seems the cost of living is pretty close to Southern California, so that's a "wash", though I expect that we'll consume a lot more electricity.

For those that live up in the Seattle, Redmond, Bothell or Bellevue, WA areas, I wanted to ask about:

1. Number of days per year where a Sport PIlot might be able to fly
2. Number of airports around as most seem to be south of Seattle
3. Availability of hangars in the general area

The area is certainly wet enough that I wouldn't want to leave my aircraft out at a tie-down for a long period of time.

Any POAers out there in the PNW that can advise?

I got my wheel private at PAE and instructed at Snohomish as a newbie CFI. Sport Pilot did not exist then, of course, but just thinking of days when low-time private pilots could go up and drill holes my guess would be 75 to 80 percent of the time. here are always periods of time when NOBODY is flying but they are few and far between. Go for it.

Bob Gardner
 
Thanks for all the responses.

I recall my consulting days back in Portland and there were few sunny days over the winter. In fact, on the one sunny day (at 38 degrees Fahrenheit), I saw more people driving with convertible tops down than I would have ever imagined. I did listen to a bunch of country music while I was up there...

Any thoughts or feedback on hangar availability? I'll have to go to SkyVector and check out the airports in the region.

I haven't made up my mind about the job, but I do know that it will be hard to leave SoCal weather and extended family. But there ARE nice back roads to ride my motorcycle around (presumably in the same 4 month period that I could fly). I'll have to weigh the pro/cons carefully.
 
gotcha. I've heard it's bad here from some of your earlier posts and others' statements. starting looking at the freezing levels last winter to think about how useful a non FIKI bird would be with an IR, or if you can actually get some use out of IR here without FIKI.

OP though is a sport pilot, so he's day vfr, and if he gets a logbook entry, can go in and out of the Paine Delta. as you remember,lots to see, and if he is OK with 3k ceilings, he can cruise around quite a bit.
 
gotcha. I've heard it's bad here from some of your earlier posts and others' statements. starting looking at the freezing levels last winter to think about how useful a non FIKI bird would be with an IR, or if you can actually get some use out of IR here without FIKI.

OP though is a sport pilot, so he's day vfr, and if he gets a logbook entry, can go in and out of the Paine Delta. as you remember,lots to see, and if he is OK with 3k ceilings, he can cruise around quite a bit.

Look at how many days Kenmore flys, they get quote a bit of time out of their year in very non FIKI DHC 2s
 
Everyday is flyable. Just depends on how bad you want to fly...
 
Everyday is flyable. Just depends on how bad you want to fly...

the other end of the elipses is "... and not die." :p At least, for me. I'm a VFR only, light sport driver for now. PPT is in the plans... time is something keeping me from getting that done.
 
Our summers tend to be GORGEOUS and sport pilots as well as non-instrument private pilots can do a lot of flying for 4 months. the rest of the year it's hit or miss, but you can get up every month of the year

Also, your personal minimums will be important. LOTS of overcast days, but many are perfectly fine with high cielings (4K or above) that you can easily do lots of VFR flight underneath.

Yup. Don't let the clouds worry you if they are high enough off the ground. Go forth and fly!

As a sport pilot you stay out of clouds anyway. But for those who do fly in IMC in the Northwest, ice is not to be trifled with. The clouds west of the Cascades are notorious icemakers.

Enjoy your PNW flying. There is much to see and do. Check out the message board at http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.com/index.php . Much helpful local knowledge and advice there.

I have an IR, and I still don't fly much in the wet months for that very reason. The Cascades ice machine is not to be trifled with. A C-172 or C-182 does not do well as a popsicle.

I'll second the recommendation that you check the Pacific Northwest Flying website.

You'll enjoy living up here in the Pacific Northwe(s)t. :)
 
As far as I can tell, both of them are flyable.
The problem is that the two flyable days aren't the same days every year.
 
I'll try to help out, since I've lived here for about five years and have my aircraft based at PAE.

Weather. First, it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

In the summer (June through September) I'd say that 90+% of the days are great VFR. Our summers out here are amazing, and daylight lasts until almost 9PM. The rest of the year is more hit-or-miss. Each week there will be a few days that are good for VFR, but of course there will be weeks when those days don't line up on a Saturday or a Sunday. It is, on balance, probably a bit worse than most of the northern part of country when it comes to flyable wintertime days, but not terrible.

Generally speaking, it's a fantastic place for recreational flying. If you want to go places on a schedule outside of the summer months, though, you really need IFR, FIKI, and ideally two turbocharged engines or a turbine. VFR-on-a-schedule is definitely a summer-only thing.

Location. If you're in Bothell, Paine (PAE) is a great choice. It's a great airport with excellent services and is very close by. The controllers are helpful and skilled. It's got a 9k x 150 runway on the West side and a 3k x 75 runway on the East side. I can't use the small runway in my bird---so I don't have direct experience there---but by looking at it, I think they're so far apart that wake considerations should be pretty minimal (at least compared to something like SNA). You also don't get stuck being sequenced in with the big IFR arrivals or get asked to do stuff like fly your final at 120 knots for spacing. You even get a separate tower frequency, so while you're flying out of a "big" airport, it probably won't really feel like that. Lots of flight training here, and the controllers know how to handle it. Since it's basically Boeing's playground, it's kept in great shape.

Hangars. This is a bit less of a rosy picture. As you'd expect with Boeing in our backyard, there's a lot of aviation activity around here, and hangars at the "big three" (BFI, RNT, and PAE) are at a premium. I didn't look at RNT given where I live, but both at BFI and PAE, you're looking at about a year long waitlist and $500 - $1000 /month.

HOWEVER, you've got some options. Harvey field (S43) is a great little airport that's just 10 miles East of Paine. They definitely have hangars there (I've seen them from the air), and I bet the prices/wait times are a lot more reasonable. With a 2,700' runway, you're not having to compete with the infinity wealth out of Microsoft and Amazon. It's probably only 15 minutes longer by car from Bothell.

Arlington (AWO) is also a great little airport, and given its distance from downtown and the super-wealthy suburbs, I'd think that, again, you'd have a lot more hangar options. It's a bit of a drive from Bothell, but I don't think it'd be terrible, especially on the weekends outside of rush hour.

It's really a great little corner of the country. Probably the most aggravating part of living here---if you drive anything other than a Prius or Leaf---is being lectured about your "carbon footprint" by billionaires who glide around in Teslas (green!) and then proceed to pump fifteen thousand gallons of diesel into their enormous yachts for a quick weekend on the water without a second thought.

I hope that's helpful! PM me if you're ever up here, and I'll take you for an aerial tour!
 
Thanks everyone for the great information! I need to really get up there for a weekend to look around and get a feel for the town and the layout/logistics of everything.

It's really a great little corner of the country. Probably the most aggravating part of living here---if you drive anything other than a Prius or Leaf---is being lectured about your "carbon footprint" by billionaires who glide around in Teslas (green!) and then proceed to pump fifteen thousand gallons of diesel into their enormous yachts for a quick weekend on the water without a second thought.

I hope that's helpful! PM me if you're ever up here, and I'll take you for an aerial tour!

Starglider, thanks for the copious great information and the generous offer! I may take you up on that! Having said that, i may not fit in as I am not a Prius or Leaf aficionado, I drive a diesel powered car, and if I take the job up there, I'm likely to bring up a 4x4 Ford Explorer with an oh-so-fun V8. :p
 
Starglider, thanks for the copious great information and the generous offer! I may take you up on that! Having said that, i may not fit in as I am not a Prius or Leaf aficionado, I drive a diesel powered car, and if I take the job up there, I'm likely to bring up a 4x4 Ford Explorer with an oh-so-fun V8. :p

Don't worry about the cars. My wife and I have a Jeep Wrangler, a Jeep Commander and a Ford Escape. We used to have a Jeep Grand Cherokee. It replaced a Dodge 3/4 ton van that we had when we moved back to the PNW. I have no use for the Prius (or the snobs who drive them around here) and the Leaf is a non-starter for me - no 4WD. There are plenty of us luddites around here who don't care about "carbon footprint" or any other politically correct babble. And to think, I live about a mile from the Evergreen State College (look that one up - I haven't seen so many hippies since I was in college in the early 1970s).

Have fun when you come up here. I'll be happy to take you up and show you the south end of Puget Sound.
 
Don't worry about the cars. My wife and I have a Jeep Wrangler, a Jeep Commander and a Ford Escape. We used to have a Jeep Grand Cherokee. It replaced a Dodge 3/4 ton van that we had when we moved back to the PNW. I have no use for the Prius (or the snobs who drive them around here) and the Leaf is a non-starter for me - no 4WD. There are plenty of us luddites around here who don't care about "carbon footprint" or any other politically correct babble. And to think, I live about a mile from the Evergreen State College (look that one up - I haven't seen so many hippies since I was in college in the early 1970s).

Have fun when you come up here. I'll be happy to take you up and show you the south end of Puget Sound.

hahahah oh man the Evergreen stuff has been entertaining me for a week. As long as you can laugh at that sort of thing, you'll be totally fine up here. I'm being a bit facetious, of course. As long as you're outside of Seattle proper, people are generally normal. :)
 
It's really a great little corner of the country. Probably the most aggravating part of living here---if you drive anything other than a Prius or Leaf---is being lectured about your "carbon footprint" by billionaires who glide around in Teslas (green!) and then proceed to pump fifteen thousand gallons of diesel into their enormous yachts for a quick weekend on the water without a second thought.

I drive a Tesla and a F350 Dually. I've gotten far more attitude driving my Tesla into Montana than I ever have driving my F350 in Seattle. Especially Bothell area. You're within a few miles of farms and vineyards - nobody cares what you drive.

Just one thing ... Be prepared to talk about the weather a lot. With EVERYONE. It's pretty much part of the greeting here. Some days you just want to go... "Morning... Can I have a half caf dopio con pana... And ... Uhh... I have information Lima - thanks". But you get used to it and eventually start missing that when you visit somewhere else.
 
I grew up in Southern Oregon, graduated college in Tacoma, WA; have lived in MS, AR, TX, AZ and Japan; and have traveled to and been deployed to many places on the planet. I have done the majority of my flying in the Southern US. When people talk about the weather in the PNW, they are really talking about the cities along I-5 from Portland, OR to Seattle, WA. That is where most of the people live but it is a very small geographic part of the region. In general, the weather is:

- East of the Cascade Mountain range between California and Canada borders - high desert climate. Dry and dusty, gets hot and cold. Lots of sunny days

- Southern Oregon, defined as between the Coast Range and Cascades from Calif border to just South of Eugene/Springfield - Nice climate. Warm to hot summers, cool and usually mild winters, lots of sunny days

- Coastal areas. Very rainy, windy, and cool. Not a lot of sunny days, but sometimes nice when further inland is overcast.

- I-5 corridor from Eugene/Springfield through Seattle Area. Cool and rainy but nice summers and more sunny days than most seem to think.

When flying in IMC in the South, I was almost always fighting to avoid embedded T-Storms. IMC was bumpy and weather often severe. Now I have done very little flying since returning to the PNW after retiring from the the USAF in 2007, but I do manage my company's aviation program so I am still aware of flight conditions around here. There really isn't much severe weather. T-STMs are wimpy when they happen and IMC seems to be gentle layers of cloud decks. Icing would be the biggest concern. As mentioned, summers out here are great. Cool in the morning, warm to hot in the last afternoon, and very little rain from July through September.
 
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