How long does it take the FAA....

Exocetid

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Exocetid
...to contact you after a controller files a violation?

Do they tell you right away? I mean, let's say you fly into Class B without the formal "You are cleared to the Houston Class Bravo airspace" phrase. Do they tell you immediately or do you get a letter six weeks later?

I've been doing a lot of flying lately after not being current for twenty years and I never had as much interface with the ATC system as I do now. Things seem to be going pretty well, but I wondered how long it takes the FAA to let you know you screwed up. Sort of like spanking the puppy with a rolled up newspaper hours after the fact.

I don't think I've done anything wrong, at least not intentionally.
 
They contacted me about a transponder issue several months after the incident. That was not an enforcement action though. I imagine if you screwed the pooch that hard they'd give you a number to call.
 
If you were in contact with them during that flight flight, you would have gotten a "We have a phone number for you to call, advise when ready to copy..."
 
If you were in contact with them during that flight flight, you would have gotten a "We have a phone number for you to call, advise when ready to copy..."
That is not necessarily true, especially if you have gone to another frequency in the interim.
 
If you were in contact with them during that flight flight, you would have gotten a "We have a phone number for you to call, advise when ready to copy..."
I believe that's typical but I'm not sure it's required.
 
...to contact you after a controller files a violation?

Do they tell you right away? I mean, let's say you fly into Class B without the formal "You are cleared to the Houston Class Bravo airspace" phrase. Do they tell you immediately or do you get a letter six weeks later?

Is this why you wanted to stay completely anonymous? ;)
 
The FAA and its controllers have different approaches to pilot violations. Maybe the FAA wants to have you reported every time you make a mistake, but controllers certainly don't report you for something minor, including, for example, misinterpreting an IFR clearance and causing a loss of terrain separation.

-Felix
 
Is this why you wanted to stay completely anonymous? ;)

Yes! But now that I have been outed, I guess it doesn't matter.

Anyway, as I said earlier I don't think I've done a no-no and I certainly have not done one intentionally; but when you read about horror stories and you have the AOPA promoting it's aviation legal services all of the time, you get to wondering.

I stay in tight contact with ATC and never refuse flight following, but things get busy in the cockpit and around and in the Class Bravo, so I just wanted to know if they would call or let you know right away if they weren't happy or if you get a letter months later saying that they are going to pull your ticket.

I am one of those pilots who see ATC as being there to help and not aggravate. The FAA is there for the same purpose, but it is pretty much mindless and non-human. You cannot say the same about controllers, I have had some get impatient with me, but by and large they are helpful and friendly. Even so, everyone has a bad day once in a while, even pilots.
 
I had an incident with a controller awhile back, in my case, the controller wanted to file a deviation report over the air. After some probing I finally got him to give me a phone number. I wasn't entirely convinced that I was completely at fault for the incident.

About two days later I received a phone call informing me the report was being dropped and I was not at fault, at least to the degree that first controller was trying to say I was. A request for a copy of my airmen file confirmed I was clean.

I suspect you'll generally know immediately if you made a mistake. If not, I wouldn't think it'd be more then a few weeks.
 
I had an incident where the controller made a mistake, and pretty soon after asking them to mark the tapes, I was given a number to call.

We worked it out on the phone.
 
They contacted me about a transponder issue several months after the incident. That was not an enforcement action though. I imagine if you screwed the pooch that hard they'd give you a number to call.

That is funny. A year ago I was ferrying an RV-9a from Washington St. to NE with a transponder reporting 31,000' all the way. I was not talking to ATC due to the mountains and clear skies. I had a note to call Minn Center them when I landed. :eek:

They asked a bunch of questions then said; "Please do not turn that thing on again until you have it FIXED!". Roger that! :redface:

Can you imagine the poor guys at the radar screen? They had a "hit" at 31,000' moving 160 MPH! :rofl:
 
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That is not necessarily true, especially if you have gone to another frequency in the interim.
They will pass the word to the other frequency.

Here's what the controller's handbook says:

==============================
2-1-26. PILOT DEVIATION NOTIFICATION When it appears that the actions of a pilot constitute a pilot deviation, notify the pilot, workload permitting.
PHRASEOLOGY
(Identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number).
==============================

There is some suggestion in the NTSB cases that if the notice is not given, while the FAA can still bring an enforcement action, it cannot exact a penalty.

==================================================
Our review of Brasher, and the other cases cited by the parties that resolved similar issues of ATC notice, establishes that a failure by ATC to provide a required notice of a deviation generally requires that sanction be waived for the associated FAR violation. See, e.g., Administrator v. McIntosh & Spriggs, NTSB Order No. EA-4174 at 12 (1994) (“the remedy for non-compliance with the [ATC] notice requirement is to impose no sanction for the violation, not dismissal of the charges”) (internal citations omitted).
==================================================

http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/5105.PDF

As recently as 2007, the NTSB reaffirmed the "Brasher Doctrine" in a case where they said it didn't apply to an ADIZ violation where the pilot didn't squawk a transponder code and ATC couldn't identify him in the air enough to be able to give the notice.

I would also expect the doctrine to not apply if there were otjher circumstances where workload made it highly impractical for ATC to say nine words and a phone number.
 
...to contact you after a controller files a violation.
Technically, they have 6 months to start an enforcement action (with some exceptions). But practically speaking, if they knew who I was, I would expect at least a phone call and perhaps a Letter of Investigation within a week.
 
Depends....we had a malfunctioning altitude encoder that reported us at 2300ft when we were actually 4700 ft on the eastern edge of a delta airspace near our home field on approach and when we landed at our home field, as soon as I turned off on the taxiway I got the dreaded.."I have a phone number for you to call at xyz tower, advise when ready to copy" Holy Sh*T was I freaking out. When the controller got done yelling at us, we explained the situation and never heard any more about it.
 
Technically, they have 6 months to start an enforcement action (with some exceptions). But practically speaking, if they knew who I was, I would expect at least a phone call and perhaps a Letter of Investigation within a week.

I believe this is called the "Stale Complaint Rule". But that 6 month clock doesn't start ticking until they (the FAA) become aware of the infraction. There have been cases where an enforcement action was brought against a pilot years after the alleged offense and AFaIK the FAA's decision was upheld in some of those. Of course if the source of the FAA's awareness for a violation comes from ATC (part of the FAA) they couldn't very well claim that they didn't hear about it for two years.
 
If you didn't get the Pilot Deviation statement from the controller, odds are you're not in trouble. However, if you think you might have screwed up, immediately file a NASA ASRS report by clicking on http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/ and following the instructions under "Report to ASRS." This information cannot be used against you, but if you file it within 10 days of the event, it may provide waiver of sanction (although it won't prevent a violation from being put on your record).

If the controller did report you to the FSDO, you will probably hear from the investigating Inspector within a week or so. If you haven't heard within a couple of weeks, it's nearly certain that no PD report was filed by the controller, and you have nothing to worry about.
 
I had a bad flight one day,

I had taken on from bountiful and was approaching SLC class B, thought I had the right frequency, but didn’t got switched four time before the switched to tower and by then I was 3 miles into their airspace, and got the call “Copy number and call upon landing” I was scared to death but when I called and explained that I thought that I was good under 5K, and after landing and looking at my maps that I wasn’t apologized about 20 times, there hadn’t been any close calls, so he let me go.

To add light but not excuse it, I was on a ferry flight with an airplane and was told by the FAA to expedite my exit out of SLC, got flustered when I had the wrong frequency, and it all when down hill.

The rest of the flight was very uneventful, but not fun I was worried about what may happen to me when I called, I thought for sure it was my last flight as PIC, but he understood and let me off. I haven’t made that kind of mistake again.

My best advice for anyone that gets the dreaded call, confess don’t argue and admit that you were wrong, tell your story, and apologize and promise to do better next time and review you chart better.

This worked for me, I think they understand when someone makes a mistake, and all truth I could see it coming when the kept switching me around. Kick myself for not making a few 360’s, but I didn’t. But I learned a lot about being complacent and try recognizing it before and take actions quicker.

BTW I had flown a lot out of SLC prior to the event.

CONFESS AND EXEPT WHAT YOU DID AND THEY WILL UNDERSTAND.
 
This information cannot be used against you
But be aware that the information in your report title _can_ be used against you. So don't say something like "Violated clearance and airspace due to fatigue".

-Felix
 
But be aware that the information in your report title _can_ be used against you. So don't say something like "Violated clearance and airspace due to fatigue".

-Felix
What title? The ASRS has no "title". It does ask for the type of event. Please cite reference indicating "type of event" is different then the description.
 

Bruce Chien has made this statement several times and I suspect there's at least some truth to it. And yes, it's the "Type of event/situation" field where discretion is advised.

It may be that Bruce's concern is that this part of the form contains the submitter's information and if that portion came to the attention of the FAA they would have sufficient info to persue enforcement if you incriminated yourself in the type field. It does seem to me that the protection granted by statute would cover this portion of the form as well but why go poking hornet's nests with sticks?
 
Bruce Chien has made this statement several times and I suspect there's at least some truth to it. And yes, it's the "Type of event/situation" field where discretion is advised.

It may be that Bruce's concern is that this part of the form contains the submitter's information and if that portion came to the attention of the FAA they would have sufficient info to persue enforcement if you incriminated yourself in the type field. It does seem to me that the protection granted by statute would cover this portion of the form as well but why go poking hornet's nests with sticks?
How would it get to the FAA? That part of the form is sent back to you. The only way the FAA could get your name attached to the type of event is if NASA told them. If NASA were doing that then anything on the form could be given with your name. Am I missing something?
 
How would it get to the FAA? That part of the form is sent back to you. The only way the FAA could get your name attached to the type of event is if NASA told them. If NASA were doing that then anything on the form could be given with your name.
Beat's me. I also was under the impression that the top of the form is private data that belongs to the sender.

Am I missing something?
Ask Bruce.
 
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