How can a pilot help an owner assisted annual

Get the exhaust pipe through the hole and then wiggle it around.

denverpilot said:
Okay... yeah... pretty much as I thought... I've just watched folks do it WAAAAY faster than we have...

Now what's the trick to getting it all lined up again and back on? LOL!
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kimberlyanne546 said:
I saw the coolest tool in the Mooney guys' hangar last time. It spun "safety wire" and they told me it had to be a certain thickness / spin per inch or what have you. It was fun to see all the non standard tools. Most are the same, but some are not.
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Here we go, women talking about guys tools.
 
WT3.jpg
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Not sure if this pilot belongs to POA, but I met many nice folks on Saturday at the Harris Ranch fly-in. This was the annual meeting of Angel Flight West (for CA pilots).

I gave my email to 2 "command pilots" who might need a mission assistant. No angel flights yet, since I can only do weekends, but now one has invited me to a 182 owner assisted annual. He even said "you can help."

How can a non-mechanical person like me help? I have changed my plans for Saturday to get there at 8am and it is almost a 2 hour drive. I've wanted to experience an annual for over a year now and this is my chance.

My thoughts were this:

Go on the first day at the start (Sat 0800 to 1700 and Sun was "0900 to whenever we are done). I thought this would be the best time to see everything get taken apart. This seems like the only time I could be of any help.

Is there an "order" to things? This is in a private hangar, not a mechanic shop. I don't have any other details.

My choices were to go for 3 hours on Saturday or 3 hours on Sunday. Which would be better?
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Sammiches and drinks
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I saw the coolest tool in the Mooney guys' hangar last time. It spun "safety wire" and they told me it had to be a certain thickness / spin per inch or what have you. It was fun to see all the non standard tools. Most are the same, but some are not.
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Oh Kimberley....you really need your own personal copy of the Aircraft Spruce catalog....All sorts of nifty gadgets. It's an education all to itself.
 
My old mechanic said she didn't charge anything additional for owner's assisting.

We popped in one year and asked how the annual was going (she was still working on the AD search, etc...) so she handed us each a screwdriver and told us to go remove all the inspection plates.

Subsequent years, my wife (who was a school teacher) would head over to the shop as soon as school let out for the summer and did all the grunt work (moving planes, sweeping out the shop, providing an extra hand) to clear out all the planes that were ahead of us in line. We then did the usual open her up, do the routine maintenance, retrieve the ELT for testing, etc...
 
murphey said:
Oh Kimberley....you really need your own personal copy of the Aircraft Spruce catalog....All sorts of nifty gadgets. It's an education all to itself.
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Very cool, they have non magnetic screwdrivers for use near a compass and cork floats for gas gauges.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Right but is any of the grunt work easy? I would like to attend but even better than that I would like to help. I thought they took a lot more than two days though? Maybe he has many helpers. I just hate standing around and doing nothing.
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Removing/re-installing the zillion screws around inspection plates? Very expensive to pay a mechanic to do that.

Bob Gardner
 
You got most of it.

Apparently you know which end of a screwdriver to pound with.
Dress to roll around on a dirty floor
Bring doughnuts if you want to be really popular.
I can't do mechanical work with gloves on. YMMV.
Hydraulic fluid tastes really bad.
Someone with small hands can reach into places that some of the rest of us can't.
It will stop bleeding on it's own if you ignore it and keep working.

You might be the only person who can fit in there:
PICT2667.JPG


More tools than you can shake a stick at: http://www.aircraft-tool.com/
 
Don't know how small the mechanic is but the owner is not tiny. Then again, neither am I, and I never thought they would be shoving me into tiny holes or rolling me around on dirty floors. All in a day's work, I guess. I will wear "get dirty clothes" and I'm not bringing donuts to be popular, I've just been raised that way (the whole 'when someone invites you over to their house you bring something' thing).
 
bobmrg said:
Removing/re-installing the zillion screws around inspection plates? Very expensive to pay a mechanic to do that.

Bob Gardner
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When you pay a flat rate for the inspection isn't that a part of the process?
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Don't know how small the mechanic is but the owner is not tiny. Then again, neither am I, and I never thought they would be shoving me into tiny holes or rolling me around on dirty floors. All in a day's work, I guess. I will wear "get dirty clothes" and I'm not bringing donuts to be popular, I've just been raised that way (the whole 'when someone invites you over to their house you bring something' thing).
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How far back in the empenage can you reach with a toilet brush using a bucket of dish washing dilute Palmolive Dish Washing Liquid, The green stuff Madge/Mildred used to soak people in? Then flush liberally with a charcoal filtered water supply. You can build the rig at home depot to fit between 2 hoses for between $20 & $50 I'd guess depending on the flow rate you want. That would be doing them a great favor. If you do it twice, it'll be twice better. If it's an old plane in your climate, a good pull the floors and panels belly scrub and flush will serve them well.

EDIT: If you do this, use a tail stand.

BTW, Anybody doing a 'Prebuy' would be well served to do this before taking it to the mechanic. You may well discover a deal breaker that was hidden in the scunge without wasting any money, just some time and a few bucks in kit.
 
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Henning said:
How far back in the empenage can you reach with a toilet brush using a bucket of dish washing dilute Palmolive Dish Washing Liquid, The green stuff Madge/Mildred used to soak people in? Then flush liberally with a charcoal filtered water supply. You can build the rig at home depot to fit between 2 hoses for between $20 & $50 I'd guess depending on the flow rate you want. That would be doing them a great favor. If you do it twice, it'll be twice better. If it's an old plane in your climate, a good pull the floors and panels belly scrub and flush will serve them well.

EDIT: If you do this, use a tail stand.
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Dude, I'm going for 2-3 hours, tops. They might only have me stand there and hand out donuts. You are way overthinking this! I am not buying a rig for the plane, only met this guy at a luncheon, barely know him.
 
bobmrg said:
Removing/re-installing the zillion screws around inspection plates? Very expensive to pay a mechanic to do that.

Bob Gardner
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Which reminds me you can never have enough Tuna Fish cans at an annual.
 
We have a local Chinese take out place that uses really nice plastic containers with lids..
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Dude, I'm going for 2-3 hours, tops. They might only have me stand there and hand out donuts. You are way overthinking this! I am not buying a rig for the plane, only met this guy at a luncheon, barely know him.
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You can easily do the empenage part in 2-3 hrs, hell, 20-30 minutes gets it done twice if you get after it. Just give them a list of supplies and equipment to have on hand. The charcoal water filter is necessary in your area to neutralize the water, that way it rinses everything. Have them open up the empenage and protect electronic/electro mechanical stuff. They can finish the the belly after and service the electrical stuff properly. I bet you're still more athletic than most lol; most people can't stretch.

If you're in a hangar with a water heater you're styling.
 
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cirrusmx said:
Don't go alone.
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Don't go alone? The guy used to be one of the leaders of Angel Flight. I'm going alone. I invited another pilot but he already knows about annuals and was not too excited about it. With the gloves, safety glasses, and don't go alone advice, you would think I was doing something way more serious than I am.
 
Henning said:
You can easily do the empenage part in 2-3 hrs, hell, 20-30 minutes gets it done twice if you get after it. Just give them a list of supplies and equipment to have on hand. The charcoal water filter is necessary in your area to neutralize the water, that way it rinses everything. Have them open up the empenage and protect electronic/electro mechanical stuff. They can finish the the belly after and service the electrical stuff properly. I bet you're still more athletic than most lol; most people can't stretch.

If you're in a hangar with a water heater you're styling.
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You give the strangest advice sometimes. I barely know how to fly a plane and yet you want me to tell a 60+ year old aircraft owner what to do? Not gonna happen.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
You give the strangest advice sometimes. I barely know how to fly a plane and yet you want me to tell a 60+ year old aircraft owner what to do? Not gonna happen.
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Offer them that you will do the job for them the correct way and this is what you propose, they can decide if it makes sense to them. Give them the best you got. BTW, What makes you think they'll disagree?
 
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AdamZ said:
Which reminds me you can never have enough Tuna Fish cans at an annual.
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simply put the screws in the holes they came out of. while you are at it, check the anchors.
 
Tom-D said:
simply put the screws in the holes they came out of. while you are at it, check the anchors.
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Yep, yep, out and back in, no bags or tape required, also the anchors, especially if you have Riv-nuts or blind clasps with a crack.
 
So it was less thrilling than I had hoped, turns out they "got a lot done" the day before, a Friday. I got to see him repack some bearings, I helped with a cotter pin, and of course I was given gloves and a rag and solvent to clean things. I also got to see new brake pads get installed, wheels and wheel pants come on / off, o rings get replaced, and even a new cylinder get put on. I got to keep a piston (he gave it to me) but now I have to drive back tomorrow several hours to give it to him. He felt bad and offered me dinner for my trouble but I said we could just fly some day instead. I was so looking forward to that huge piston being mine. Oh well.

The IA guy there insisted when you get a new cylinder they do not need the old piston. Today the piston shop / guy told him they needed the old piston. So I'm bringing it back. Will post pictures tomorrow if I remember, this hangar was HUGE and served as the emergency hangar for the sherriff's department with food and entertainment.
 
AdamZ said:
Which reminds me you can never have enough Tuna Fish cans at an annual.
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Hubby has taken some rubber that is used to line kitchen cabinets and glued onto the bottom of several tuna cans. Keeps them from sliding off the cowling, empenage, etc.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I was so looking forward to that huge piston being mine. Oh well.

The IA guy there insisted when you get a new cylinder they do not need the old piston. Today the piston shop / guy told him they needed the old piston. So I'm bringing it back.
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They are a kit, all the parts count as a core. but when a cylinder gets overhauled the shop usually bore it oversize, and throw the piston/rings away.

Look on e-bay if you really want one.
 
Tom-D said:
They are a kit, all the parts count as a core. but when a cylinder gets overhauled the shop usually bore it oversize, and throw the piston/rings away.

Look on e-bay if you really want one.
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Interesting.... I thought all new cylinders kits were "outright" sales and no cores were needed to be exchanged.. What would a retailer of new cylinder kits do with old, worn out parts ?:dunno::dunno:
 
N801BH said:
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Interesting.... I thought all new cylinders kits were "outright" sales and no cores were needed to be exchanged.. What would a retailer of new cylinder kits do with old, worn out parts ?:dunno::dunno:
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Kits do not require cores, but overhaul shops may take the cores to overhaul and sell. the owner may want their old cylinder as a overhauled spare.

she doesn't tell us why the old cylinder ended up being in the shop.
 
Tom-D said:
Kits do not require cores, but overhaul shops may take the cores to overhaul and sell. the owner may want their old cylinder as a overhauled spare.

she doesn't tell us why the old cylinder ended up being in the shop.
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I don't know but will find out tonight from him when I bring it to his house. I thought it had something to do with the bad cylinder, which he said he replaced during annual, because he had another cylinder lying around. He also found a nipple leak which he said will cost 2 or 3 thousand to fix and he has to get a ferry permit to fly it to a specialist. More like a seepage than a leak (fuel).
 
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