How can a pilot help an owner assisted annual

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

Final Approach
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Kimberly
Not sure if this pilot belongs to POA, but I met many nice folks on Saturday at the Harris Ranch fly-in. This was the annual meeting of Angel Flight West (for CA pilots).

I gave my email to 2 "command pilots" who might need a mission assistant. No angel flights yet, since I can only do weekends, but now one has invited me to a 182 owner assisted annual. He even said "you can help."

How can a non-mechanical person like me help? I have changed my plans for Saturday to get there at 8am and it is almost a 2 hour drive. I've wanted to experience an annual for over a year now and this is my chance.

My thoughts were this:

Go on the first day at the start (Sat 0800 to 1700 and Sun was "0900 to whenever we are done). I thought this would be the best time to see everything get taken apart. This seems like the only time I could be of any help.

Is there an "order" to things? This is in a private hangar, not a mechanic shop. I don't have any other details.

My choices were to go for 3 hours on Saturday or 3 hours on Sunday. Which would be better?
 
As long as a mechanic will sign his name to it you can do an owner assisted annual - I owner assist on my annual and saved about $300 doing the grunt work.
 
my best answer is to do what they tell you. If you don't know how ask.
 
DavidWhite said:
As long as a mechanic will sign his name to it you can do an owner assisted annual - I owner assist on my annual and saved about $300 doing the grunt work.
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Right but is any of the grunt work easy? I would like to attend but even better than that I would like to help. I thought they took a lot more than two days though? Maybe he has many helpers. I just hate standing around and doing nothing.
 
DavidWhite said:
As long as a mechanic will sign his name to it you can do an owner assisted annual - I owner assist on my annual and saved about $300 doing the grunt work.
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Lets keep this legal, "owner maintenance" is for owner operators, not any pilot that walks thru the door and grabs a wrench.
See the wording in CFR 43-A
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Duh. I am not touching anything without their permission. Nor will I "guess" how to do something. I always ask questions.
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Right answer :) it should be an easy do, pull panels, clean this, grease that, etc.
 
Have them teach you to change oil, and tires.
 
Tom-D said:
Lets keep this legal, "owner maintenance" is for owner operators, not any pilot that walks thru the door and grabs a wrench.
See the wording in CFR 43-A
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I don't want to do anything that is not legal. I will leave it up to the mechanic and the owner. He said "help" so I am sure there is something I can do that doesn't break any rules. Like you said, cleaning or greasing (I'm so non mechanical I wouldn't even know how to do that one) or whatever.
 
You will be removing a lot of inspection panels and such. That's a lot of the "low-strength" grunt work of an annual (not saying you're weak, but they probably won't ask you, "here, hold this engine for a bit whilst I refresh my cocktail")
 
The only reason I am doing this is because flying isn't just about pretty views over the mountain-tops. It is about understanding the way an airplane works, and learning what you can for safety. Being "well rounded" I guess. Just because I'm a renter doesn't mean that I should be happy not knowing or understanding the stuff I never get to see or touch.
 
jhausch said:
You will be removing a lot of inspection panels and such. That's a lot of the "low-strength" grunt work of an annual (not saying you're weak, but they probably won't ask you, "here, hold this engine for a bit whilst I refresh my cocktail")
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There will be cocktails? I was just going to see the insides of a plane, didn't know anything about cocktails. Though at 8am I doubt there will be cocktails. Also, this pilot is an older man and I think a lot of older folks have to limit their alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if there is no booze in the hangar.
 
Actually, I was going to bring something, but then I realized I am kind of the one driving 4 hours and helping for free. So perhaps this is not the time for thoughtful gifts. I don't know much about this person and I'd hate to assume someone is a drinker when they are not.... aka bringing a 6-pack for the beer fridge.
 
Sounds like a good learning experience for you..:yesnod:

If they let you remove panels, start with a hand screwdriver till you get the feel of how the screws come out... A cordless drill with a phillips bit can do alot of damage to a screw head in 2.3 seconds.:eek:
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Also, this pilot is an older man and I think a lot of older folks have to limit their alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if there is no booze in the hangar.
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Drink you under the table, Master Yoda will. Whippersnapper! ;)

Get off my lawn!!! ;)
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I don't want to do anything that is not legal. I will leave it up to the mechanic and the owner. He said "help" so I am sure there is something I can do that doesn't break any rules. Like you said, cleaning or greasing (I'm so non mechanical I wouldn't even know how to do that one) or whatever.
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I have a young Lady customer that works for Boeing and owns a C-152. She started owner assisted annuals with me 2 years ago, this year she did her own oil change, re-lined her own brakes, cleaned her own spark plugs, and opened up the entire aircraft, and closed it up after the inspection.

In my way of thinking the more she knows about her aircraft the better customer she is.
 
The odds are that you'll be invited to take stuff off - such as unscrewing the access panels, unscrewing X00's of screws in the cowl and everyplace else, watching the oil drain out, and washing (and possibly waxing) the airplane.

Perhaps, after you demonstrate you are somewhat competent to use a screwdriver, and know the difference between a phillips and a flathead, you'll be allowed to replace the access panels and those X00s of screws. And pour oil into the oil filler tube after the oil filter has been replaced.

Wear grubby clothes. Bring gloves (nitrile if handy). Safety glasses wouldn't hurt.

The FAA even has a list of things that must be checked at 100 hour (annual) on the website someplace, I forget where. There may be a C182-specific one in the C182 Service Manual (there's one in the Piper Service Manuals, there's not much difference). Most, if not all, shops, have a checklist that follows or supplements Cessna's service manual. For example, the Piper list is 9-12 pages long and has the following areas to evaluate:

Propeller Group
Engine Group
Cabin & Cockpit Group
Fuselage & Empenage Group
Wing Group
Landing Gear Group
Float Group
Special Inspections
Operational Inspection
General Items
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Actually, I was going to bring something, but then I realized I am kind of the one driving 4 hours and helping for free. So perhaps this is not the time for thoughtful gifts. I don't know much about this person and I'd hate to assume someone is a drinker when they are not.... aka bringing a 6-pack for the beer fridge.
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Chocolate chip cookies, brownies, cold drinks, ice tea, etc.

My shop prefers chocolate brownies with walnuts.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I don't want to do anything that is not legal.
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You will be working "under the supervision" of the licensed mechanic, so whatever s/he tells you to do is fair game.

There are a ton of phillips head screws holding on the cowling and inspection plates. Can you turn a screwdriver?
 
Steve Foley said:
You will be working "under the supervision" of the licensed mechanic, so whatever s/he tells you to do is fair game.

There are a ton of phillips head screws holding on the cowling and inspection plates. Can you turn a screwdriver?
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182s don't have screws in the cowl, and most of the inspection panels have only 3 screws.
 
murphey said:
The odds are that you'll be invited to take stuff off - such as unscrewing the access panels, unscrewing X00's of screws in the cowl and everyplace else, watching the oil drain out, and washing (and possibly waxing) the airplane.

Perhaps, after you demonstrate you are somewhat competent to use a screwdriver, and know the difference between a phillips and a flathead, you'll be allowed to replace the access panels and those X00s of screws. And pour oil into the oil filler tube after the oil filter has been replaced.

Wear grubby clothes. Bring gloves (nitrile if handy). Safety glasses wouldn't hurt.

The FAA even has a list of things that must be checked at 100 hour (annual) on the website someplace, I forget where. There may be a C182-specific one in the C182 Service Manual (there's one in the Piper Service Manuals, there's not much difference). Most, if not all, shops, have a checklist that follows or supplements Cessna's service manual. For example, the Piper list is 9-12 pages long and has the following areas to evaluate:

Propeller Group
Engine Group
Cabin & Cockpit Group
Fuselage & Empenage Group
Wing Group
Landing Gear Group
Float Group
Special Inspections
Operational Inspection
General Items
Click to expand...

Thanks, I was just going to wear the same clothes I was wearing to Petaluma Display Day and my Bay Tour flight. Sounds like I should perhaps rethink that whole thing. I will only be there at the annual for 3 hours or less, not sure how dirty I will get, and I'm certainly not going to buy gloves and safety glasses in addition to the bridge toll and gas I'm already paying for. I don't have those things in my little studio apartment and I do not think it is "gross" to get grease under my nails.
 
murphey said:
Chocolate chip cookies, brownies, cold drinks, ice tea, etc.

My shop prefers chocolate brownies with walnuts.
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Pastries! Great idea! Love it! Will do. I once brought pastries to my CFI the morning of my first solo and he broke his own diet to eat the donut (I didn't know what he liked so I went and got croissants, muffins, and donuts). I gave the rest to the other pilots and it was all gone in a heartbeat.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I do not think it is "gross" to get grease under my nails.
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That's cool,,,,,,, but,,,,,, some of this stuff is toxic. stop by a drug store and get a few pairs of vinyl gloves.
 
Steve Foley said:
You will be working "under the supervision" of the licensed mechanic, so whatever s/he tells you to do is fair game.

There are a ton of phillips head screws holding on the cowling and inspection plates. Can you turn a screwdriver?
Click to expand...

Geez. I do stuff here at work all the time (repairing stuff, working with my hands). Yes, I can turn a screwdriver. I can even cut things with a sawzall.... though that thing scared the heck out of me when I cut metal the first time - you have to "learn" how to use power tools, that's for sure!
 
Tom-D said:
That's cool,,,,,,, but,,,,,, some of this stuff is toxic. stop by a drug store and get a few pairs of vinyl gloves.
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You think the pilot won't have any? I might have some at the BF's house, I will look on Friday when I'm there.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thanks, I was just going to wear the same clothes I was wearing to Petaluma Display Day and my Bay Tour flight. Sounds like I should perhaps rethink that whole thing. I will only be there at the annual for 3 hours or less, not sure how dirty I will get, and I'm certainly not going to buy gloves and safety glasses in addition to the bridge toll and gas I'm already paying for. I don't have those things in my little studio apartment and I do not think it is "gross" to get grease under my nails.
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Stop by one of the big box hardware stores - a pair of safety glasses shouldn't be more than $5. As for the grease, it aint just the grease. Hydraulic fluid is toxic. Some of the lubricants are toxic. Dirty engine oil is miserable.

I buy those boxes of 100 nitrile gloves at Costco and keep a box in the car and another at the hangar. I don't recommend the vinyl gloves because some of the fluids will go right thru the vinyl.
 
murphey said:
Stop by one of the big box hardware stores - a pair of safety glasses shouldn't be more than $5. As for the grease, it aint just the grease. Hydraulic fluid is toxic. Some of the lubricants are toxic. Dirty engine oil is miserable.

I buy those boxes of 100 nitrile gloves at Costco and keep a box in the car and another at the hangar. I don't recommend the vinyl gloves because some of the fluids will go right thru the vinyl.
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That's what I thought (they go through certain gloves). Nitrile, will try to remember that. I think the BF has spare safety glasses if I remember to get them. But again, I'm thinking the pilot should have all of this.
 
Tom-D said:
182s don't have screws in the cowl, and most of the inspection panels have only 3 screws.
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Yup. Still need a phillips for those fasteners though. ;)

Bottom cowl is still a PITA to get off. What's the darn trick? ;)
 
Bring your favorite ratcheting screwdriver and get ready to twist.

As a presumably more-dainty-than-the-mechanic/pilot girl, be prepared to be asked to get into some of the tighter spaces.

Ask questions.

Enjoy!

(I get to open and close my plane again in the next couple of weeks... :cool: )
 
denverpilot said:
Yup. Still need a phillips for those fasteners though. ;)

Bottom cowl is still a PITA to get off. What's the darn trick? ;)
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The trick is to swap the two cowl flap bolts to pins with keys, then undo them and the air duct first. then the top cowl, and then the bottom. but always get help.
 
denverpilot said:
Yup. Still need a phillips for those fasteners though. ;)

Bottom cowl is still a PITA to get off. What's the darn trick? ;)
Click to expand...

I know some guys use a rolling office chair with arms.

I pop all but the top two fasteners, then the right one and lower the cowl onto the exhaust pipe. Then do the left and remove.

On, well, that's a job for two.
 
I saw the coolest tool in the Mooney guys' hangar last time. It spun "safety wire" and they told me it had to be a certain thickness / spin per inch or what have you. It was fun to see all the non standard tools. Most are the same, but some are not.
 
Just be careful not to strip the screw heads. Phillips heads can strip easily. If it's too tight, leave it. Like someone else said, a screw driver is better than screw gun/drill, until you're sure of what you're doing. Even if you do accidently strip something, they should have replacements.

Be careful walking around. Keep screws grouped together from where they come off. Don't put tools/screws/parts on painted surfaces, etc. I'm sure you know most of this, but just thought I'd throw it out there. Have fun. It'll probably less interesting than you're hoping, but a good experience none-the-less. :D
 
Way too much thinking going on here! Just show up and as Tom said do what they tell you and ask questions. Wear clothes you don't mind getting dirty. Nothing more complex than that.
 
AdamZ said:
Way too much thinking going on here! Just show up and as Tom said do what they tell you and ask questions. Wear clothes you don't mind getting dirty. Nothing more complex than that.
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I know, huh, they are treating it like brain surgery. I posted mostly to find out if the second day was better than the first day.

Though I did get three take aways from this thread:

1. Many of you think I'm an idiot (I'm more handy than any girl I know and have a knack for fixing things. I know how to unscrew a screw.... in fact when the BF wanted to sell a part of his truck I got underneath it and dismantled the darned thing)

2. Bring "crappy clothes"

3. Donuts! (not pasties!)
 
Tom-D said:
The trick is to swap the two cowl flap bolts to pins with keys, then undo them and the air duct first. then the top cowl, and then the bottom. but always get help.
Click to expand...

Okay... yeah... pretty much as I thought... I've just watched folks do it WAAAAY faster than we have...

Now what's the trick to getting it all lined up again and back on? LOL!
 
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