How about this for tail wheel training?

Dav8or

Dav8or

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Dave
The state of GA thread had a link to this plane-

smith-1.jpg


http://culverprops.com/back-yard-ul.php

It got me to thinking, if you put some skids on the wing tips to protect from damage due to ground loops, would a plane like this that is dirt simple and very inexpensive be a good tool to train tail wheel pilots? Perhaps you would need something like this that is tandem seat and not a Part 103 ultralight, but I suppose somehow people learn to fly these things by themselves. Maybe after a few hours of touch and goes in a thing like this you could make an easier transition to a bigger, traditional tail dragger?

Just an idea.
 
I think that would be fun to fly in general.

I'd love one.
 
I've been a fan since I saw the first one at OSH in 07. I vowed to never get a 2 stroke powered bird and this one was one of the few that offered a 4 stroke. They also come in trike flavors, for those that don't want to do TW. Putting any kind of second seat in will be pretty tough. The wing would need to move, or the engine to make CG with a tandem arrangement, and that would also take it out of part 103.
 
Wouldn't anything with two seats fall into the LSA category? It's not legal to instruct in an E-LSA, only an S-LSA.

Aerotrek is among the least expensive S-LSAs, and you can get one with a tailwheel, but a new one still goes for $90K.
 
Looks cheap to fly, I'd fly it!

Kinda reminds me of a ugly version of the N3 pup (single seat J3 knock off).

That said I'd be wearing my rig, packed slider down ;)
 
It's not legal to instruct in an E-LSA, only an S-LSA. /QUOTE]


Instruction in E-LSA is legal you have to be the owner or have some form of ownership interest in it.. Just can't be rented like a traditional flight school or FBO aircraft.
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I learned Tail wheel in a Legal Eagle it looked just like this just a little smaller and a single seat.
Start a club and make everyone owners.

Tony
 
Skids on the tips won't prevent groundloop damage. The spars get overstressed and suffer bending or fractures. A groundloop also often ends up with the airplane on its nose or back, too, destroying the propeller and sometimes the engine.

When I was in the flight school I wanted to build a nonflying taildragger trainer. Short little wings, strong enough to take numerous groundloops, a narrow and fairly tall gear to encourage groundlooping, and a little two-stroke engine to drive a third wheel between the mains. A bumper on the nose. The student would be strapped in real tight and have a helmet, since this thing would tumble easily as soon as he failed to pay attention. It would be fabric-covered so that crosswind training would be realistic, with all the same hazards.

Never got around to it.

Dan
 
Dan that is a really great idea. Let us know if you ever do it. I love it.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Skids on the tips won't prevent groundloop damage. The spars get overstressed and suffer bending or fractures. A groundloop also often ends up with the airplane on its nose or back, too, destroying the propeller and sometimes the engine.

When I was in the flight school I wanted to build a nonflying taildragger trainer. Short little wings, strong enough to take numerous groundloops, a narrow and fairly tall gear to encourage groundlooping, and a little two-stroke engine to drive a third wheel between the mains. A bumper on the nose. The student would be strapped in real tight and have a helmet, since this thing would tumble easily as soon as he failed to pay attention. It would be fabric-covered so that crosswind training would be realistic, with all the same hazards.

Never got around to it.

Dan
Click to expand...

Sounds like an commercial insurance agent's nightmare!
 
'Skids' start to imply it's acceptable tag the wingtips. dragging wingtips should only be done by pro airshow performers :)
 
Looks like a lot of fun! But are those things flown high enough normally to warrant a BRS?
 
Dav8or said:
The state of GA thread had a link to this plane-

smith-1.jpg


http://culverprops.com/back-yard-ul.php

Part 103 ultralight, but I suppose somehow people learn to fly these things by themselves.
Click to expand...
I know a guy who was a RC model airplane pilot. He decided he wanted to fly ultralights. He went out and bought one. He progressively taxied faster and faster until he got airborne. He managed to get about 50 hours before deciding to seek a certificate.
 
Already did that....
Breese Penguin. Cradle of Aviation Museum.
 

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FORANE said:
I know a guy who was a RC model airplane pilot. He decided he wanted to fly ultralights. He went out and bought one. He progressively taxied faster and faster until he got airborne. He managed to get about 50 hours before deciding to seek a certificate.
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I like to hear stories like that. Good for him.
 
FORANE said:
He managed to get about 50 hours before deciding to seek a certificate.
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Just curious. Did he seek the certificate because he feared for his life and thought his flying was going to eventually kill him, or just to move up to more advanced airplanes?
 
I have seriously considered one of these. There made right around the corner from me also.
 
yakdriver said:
I called them yesterday and if you ordered one today it would take two years to get it. Don
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Wow! They should just sell you the plans. I think you could build one yourself faster!:D I guess business isn't booming in the part 103 business either. I guess this company must have another revenue stream.
 
Dav8or said:
Wow! They should just sell you the plans. I think you could build one yourself faster!:D I guess business isn't booming in the part 103 business either. I guess this company must have another revenue stream.
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I guess I'd be more inclined to think that it'll take two years because business IS booming, but I don't know that, pure speculation.
 
Dav8or said:
Just curious. Did he seek the certificate because he feared for his life and thought his flying was going to eventually kill him, or just to move up to more advanced airplanes?
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While he might enjoy moving up beyond ultralights, I don't think that was his intention. I never asked him why he sought instruction or when he did. It may be he was concerned. I know at some point he experienced an engine failure and had an off field landing.
 
Looks like fun.

The secret to any taildragger is just never stop flying the darn thing.

Chock to chock.
 
txflyer said:
Looks like fun.

The secret to any taildragger is just never stop flying the darn thing.

Chock to chock.
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That. The moment you let your guard down for a moment is the moment you about go for a ride. A few weeks ago I was coming off the runway in a tailwheel on a gusty day and thought the tailwheel was locked. Turned out it wasn't, for some reason, and things went from good to about to hit a light in a hurry. Some quick brake action sorted that out though damage free.
 
jesse said:
That. The moment you let your guard down for a moment is the moment you about go for a ride. A few weeks ago I was coming off the runway in a tailwheel on a gusty day and thought the tailwheel was locked. Turned out it wasn't, for some reason, and things went from good to about to hit a light in a hurry. Some quick brake action sorted that out though damage free.
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Another fact:

You're never ready when it happens. And it's going to happen. :redface:

It's much better to stay focused very diligently when landing. Otherwise, when it goes bad, and if you get behind the curve, it takes lightning moves to correct.
 
txflyer said:
Another fact:

You're never ready when it happens. And it's going to happen. :redface:

It's much better to stay focused very diligently when landing. Otherwise, when it goes bad, and if you get behind the curve, it takes lightning moves to correct.
Click to expand...
I strive to never have a ground loop, so far, I've never came close. That was as close as I've come to running something over.

Who knows, could happen some day, but both my dad and grandpa never ground looped in their tens of thousands of hours of crop dusting.
 
jesse said:
I strive to never have a ground loop, so far, I've never came close. That was as close as I've come to running something over.

Who knows, could happen some day, but both my dad and grandpa never ground looped in their tens of thousands of hours of crop dusting.
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I hope you're knocking on some wood. Cuz I am. :D

I've never had it happen either, but I can watch numerous videos and hear stories of much more experienced pilots than I am that have. It's one of those things that up and jumps and bites you if you mind drift for even a second it seems like.

I'm flying an aircraft with a reputation for ground loops, so I try to put on my A game every time I fly. :redface:
 
Dan Thomas said:
Skids on the tips won't prevent groundloop damage. The spars get overstressed and suffer bending or fractures. A groundloop also often ends up with the airplane on its nose or back, too, destroying the propeller and sometimes the engine.

When I was in the flight school I wanted to build a nonflying taildragger trainer. Short little wings, strong enough to take numerous groundloops, a narrow and fairly tall gear to encourage groundlooping, and a little two-stroke engine to drive a third wheel between the mains. A bumper on the nose. The student would be strapped in real tight and have a helmet, since this thing would tumble easily as soon as he failed to pay attention. It would be fabric-covered so that crosswind training would be realistic, with all the same hazards.

Never got around to it.

Dan
Click to expand...

an old instructor of mine told me that a champ was ground looped and hurt bad enough to be un-airworthy at one of his previous jobs. It was cheaper to just buy another one. They took the wings off the bent one and used it for just what you describe. That was over 50 years ago. Liability has changed a little since then.
 
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