House member Tom Tiffany (R-WI) Bonanza -- Water Landing

ArrowFlyer86

ArrowFlyer86

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Rick A said:
If your speculation turns out that a lack of fuel was the cause... my question is: did a murderous character at the departure airport try to kill this Trump supported Wisconsin Republican primary winning candidate for Governor? I'd presume both he and the pilot attended the campaign event and were away from plane for the entire duration of their absence from the airport (would likely include a free meal for the pilot).
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That's the first thought that comes to mind?
That is quite a specific scenario...
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
That's the first thought that comes to mind?
That is quite a specific scenario...
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Actually, that thought was further down the list.

My first thought was wondering how long the Bonanza floated? The second was wheels up or down? The next was did the two occupants stay with the plane (not swimming towards shore) until it sank?

Only then did my memory go back to the mid-2000's Pennsylvania Primary season when I piloted a candidate for Governor across the state in the Mooney to multiple night time campaign dinner speeches.

After landing, always riding along with the candidate, leaving the plane unattended at some dark desolate uncontrolled airports, listening to the canned speeches and Q&A's, and typically having a free dinner.

Never considered conducting a more thorough preflight than usual due to the chances that somebody may be out to kill the candidate. The polls showed (and were correct) that his very conservative voting record as a State Representative wasn't going to beat the well-funded candidate with abundant support from the mainstream media.

At times it was almost comical when the little Mooney was parked on the ramp at the FBO of larger Class B and D airport, parked almost under the wing of the large corporate jet (owned by a big global corporation) used to shuttle the winning candidate around the state... that was a good indicator of how my guy had a very steep uphill battle.

Things are getting ugly out there. If still doing this type of political flying today, I'd stay with the plane and bring along a protein Power Bar for dinner!
 
Rick A said:
The polls showed (and were correct) that his very conservative voting record as a State Representative wasn't going to beat the well-funded candidate with abundant support from the mainstream media.
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Not to mention the voters.
 
There is no denying the deterioration of agency as we age.
 
...and let's not forget that crazy fuel system on a K35.
I've owned and H35 and a K35,
and if there ever was a Day VFR fuel system,
the early Bonanza is IT!
4 tanks plumbed as 3.
Insanity.

Fuel mismanagement would not surprise me for a 73yo flying a K35 at night.
 
MKERSW said:
There is no denying the deterioration of agency as we age.
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I did a study along those lines a few years ago, using my homebuilt accident database.

For my analysis, I use "Pilot Miscontrol" as a specific category. These are accidents caused by the pilot's mishandling of the controls.

A separate category is "Pilot Judgment". These are the cases where the pilot's faulty decision-making causes the accident.

Add the two categories together, and you get Pilot Error."

So...here's how the data came out, vs. the pilot's age.

This data shows Pilot Miscontrol increasing past age 80...but the *judgment* issues are less.

When you look at the overall Pilot Error percentages, it stays pretty flat through about age 80. Then, the increase in stick-and-rudder issues (reflexes, etc.) overcome the lower rate of judgment errors.

1789347345367.png
Looking at two aspects of Pilot Miscontrol... accidental stalls (with fully functional engines) and physical loss of control of the aircraft during takeoff and landing is also interesting. Overall, as pilots age, then tend towards more cases of losing control on takeoff or landing. But generally speaking (there is a spike in the 80-84 age group) they seem to get cagier about stalls.
1789347619610.png
But what do I know; I'm one of those guys who only come out when accidents happen.... :-)


Ron Wanttaja
 
MKERSW said:
...and let's not forget that crazy fuel system on a K35.
I've owned and H35 and a K35,
and if there ever was a Day VFR fuel system,
the early Bonanza is IT!
4 tanks plumbed as 3.
Insanity.

Fuel mismanagement would not surprise me for a 73yo flying a K35 at night.
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I'm calling BS.

I have a J35 with tip tanks - 6 individual tanks, w/three selector valves. I use it for long cross country flights on a regular basis, so I am filling and using all 6 as my default config.

There's a correct order to operate these systems, and once you learn the process it's just not that difficult. If you have more than a few hours in type, it's really no big deal.

What makes you think that 73 is some sort of magic age of incompetence?
 
wanttaja said:
I did a study along those lines a few years ago, using my homebuilt accident database.

For my analysis, I use "Pilot Miscontrol" as a specific category. These are accidents caused by the pilot's mishandling of the controls.

A separate category is "Pilot Judgment". These are the cases where the pilot's faulty decision-making causes the accident.

Add the two categories together, and you get Pilot Error."

So...here's how the data came out, vs. the pilot's age.

This data shows Pilot Miscontrol increasing past age 80...but the *judgment* issues are less.

When you look at the overall Pilot Error percentages, it stays pretty flat through about age 80. Then, the increase in stick-and-rudder issues (reflexes, etc.) overcome the lower rate of judgment errors.

View attachment 154967
Looking at two aspects of Pilot Miscontrol... accidental stalls (with fully functional engines) and physical loss of control of the aircraft during takeoff and landing is also interesting. Overall, as pilots age, then tend towards more cases of losing control on takeoff or landing. But generally speaking (there is a spike in the 80-84 age group) they seem to get cagier about stalls.
View attachment 154968
But what do I know; I'm one of those guys who only come out when accidents happen.... :-)


Ron Wanttaja
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Nicely presented, thank you for your time and insight.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Yeah, but he hasn't gone on a mini media tour yet reminding everyone that their local police and firefighters are the real heros. Unlike other recent ditchers... :D
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Oh, yes he has. Big press conference with all of the fire and police guys who rescued him, and the obligatory stitches and emotional moment.

I saw a complete video of the press conference where they kept the camera rolling from before he arrived at the fire station - All of the first responders were already there standing in a line behind the podium, he completely ignored them and walked into the back room until the mayor came out to give his introduction. Not so much as a nod, much less a "hi" or "thank you" until the cameras were rolling. However, I'm not surprised. :mad:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Oh, yes he has. Big press conference with all of the fire and police guys who rescued him, and the obligatory stitches and emotional moment.

I saw a complete video of the press conference where they kept the camera rolling from before he arrived at the fire station - All of the first responders were already there standing in a line behind the podium, he completely ignored them and walked into the back room until the mayor came out to give his introduction. Not so much as a nod, much less a "hi" or "thank you" until the cameras were rolling. However, I'm not surprised. :mad:
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Typical politician. I've had personal run-ins with these types and the most dangerous place to be is between them and a camera.

I cringed at some of his comments that "God was looking out for him" and that he cannot return to DC to vote because it was unsafe due to his injuries.

Please.
 
FlightmechH3 said:
I cringed at some of his comments that "God was looking out for him" and that he cannot return to DC to vote because it was unsafe due to his injuries.

Please.
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Always love that angels or god thing, so, they were on coffee break when the engine quit?
 
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