Horizontal Stab Skins drilled on!

wilkersk

wilkersk

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Display name:
KennyW
Now to tear it all apart and do all nit-noid stuff before final assembly.....

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My son Steven putting in that last cleco.​
 
Its an older (1998) RV-8 horizontal stab, made prior to the "pre-punched" kits. But, when I decided to incorporate the front spar service bulletin during the build, I went ahead and bought the pre-punched front spar extrusions. So, technically I really didn't need the jig to build them straight. But, since I built the jig already, it came in handy.

I'll use the jig to hold my quick-build wings, once I bust 'em out of the shipping crate.
 
Yup! I got one already. Got tired of the bash-and-dent method with the brand-x dimpler.
 
I also like the Avery hand squeezer a lot better than the Tasco. A bit heavier but has longer lever arms and much stronger yokes. The pneumatic squeezers were too heavy and bulky for me. Get a set of these also in 3/31 and 1/8. They are very handy. As you can tell I have done a LOT of sheetmetal work and have built my own RV-7 and done a lot of work on several RVs. Have fun. Don
 
I bought a Cleveland Main Squeeze and a used CP214 style pneumatic squeezer. I still need a narrow face short reach yoke for the leading edges.

Don, how do you get the flush rivets on the thin gauge skins to set so smooth. I've seen some work that was so smooth, you could barely see the rivet line after painting. My first attempt on the vertical stab looked fairly primitive in comparison.
 
I back rivet whenever possible, I also have Tungsten bucking bars and put masking tape over the rivet heads before driving. The mushroom flat set with the rubber guard works really well also. Getting the dimples and countersinks perfect also helps a lot. Setting up the air pressure on your gun is also critical so you don't overdrive the rivet. Unfortunately that is kind of a feel thing. The -3 rivets don't take a lot of pressure. When you rivet always try to work from the center of the panel out and set every third rivet or so then come back and set the rest on the second pass. If doing a straight line like the horizontal spars again set the center one first and work out skipping every third or fourth rivet. If you start at one end and rivet every one in the row it is surprising how much it will stretch the metal to the point that the holes on the last third will not line up and you start getting wrinkles. Don't do the vertical fin first like in the Vans instruction manual, do the horizontal. Those first rivets in the vertical fin leading edge ribs are probably the hardest rivets to set on the whole airplane and most guys will dent it. You will see that often on first time builder RVs and the perfect ones probably ordered a new skin and did it twice. Don
 
yakdriver said:
I also like the Avery hand squeezer a lot better than the Tasco. A bit heavier but has longer lever arms and much stronger yokes. The pneumatic squeezers were too heavy and bulky for me. Get a set of these also in 3/31 and 1/8. They are very handy. As you can tell I have done a LOT of sheetmetal work and have built my own RV-7 and done a lot of work on several RVs. Have fun. Don
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Hopefully Bob sells the design to somebody as he
and his wife retired and shut the business down. :(

Bob
 
I didn't know that. I wondered why the website didn't work this morning. I really liked Avery's service. Cleveland is good but not like Avery. Don
 
I never had the chance to work with Avery. I went with Cleveland from the git go because I liked their website design best. That said both Mike and Annette have been great and they stand behind their tools. Recently had a dimple die neck break while in the C-frame dimpler. I ordered a replacement but after talking to him he's crediting my account.
 
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I agree with Don on air pressure. I used a 3X gun and used between 35-40 psi to good effect on 3/32 rivets with a swivel flush set. Also heartedly endorse a tungsten bucking bar--one of the best tool purchases I made.
 
yakdriver said:
I didn't know that. I wondered why the website didn't work this morning. I really liked Avery's service. Cleveland is good but not like Avery. Don
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I found both Avery and Cleveland to be wonderful vendors to the RV community. I generally alternated purchases thinking it was good to keep both healthy.

To the OP: Keep drilling, deburring, priming, and riveting. Do something every day if you can - the first 2 minutes of shop time are the toughest. If you can make it out there for 2 minutes, you'll generally stretch it long enough to get something done.
 
kyleb said:
I found both Avery and Cleveland to be wonderful vendors to the RV community. I generally alternated purchases thinking it was good to keep both healthy.

To the OP: Keep drilling, deburring, priming, and riveting. Do something every day if you can - the first 2 minutes of shop time are the toughest. If you can make it out there for 2 minutes, you'll generally stretch it long enough to get something done.
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That's the only way to get these done. I work in the hangar almost every day and even if its just for a half hour. I try to put 25 hrs a week in as much as I can. The Supercub I'm building now will probably take 800-1000 hrs. Don
 
yakdriver said:
That's the only way to get these done. I work in the hangar almost every day and even if its just for a half hour. I try to put 25 hrs a week in as much as I can. The Supercub I'm building now will probably take 800-1000 hrs. Don
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To piggyback on this, if you're building at home and your intended hangar is a bit of a commute, don't move the project until you absolutely have to. Otherwise you'll most likely find your productivity will drop significantly. Mine did as my hangar is 30 min from my house.
 
tsts4 said:
To piggyback on this, if you're building at home and your intended hangar is a bit of a commute, don't move the project until you absolutely have to. Otherwise you'll most likely find your productivity will drop significantly. Mine did as my hangar is 30 min from my house.
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My airport is a good 25 mins away. I plane to literally do as much as possible in my garage before I move my project... not sure how much that is, but maybe right before engine and prop mount I'm guessing.
 
OkieAviator said:
My airport is a good 25 mins away. I plane to literally do as much as possible in my garage before I move my project... not sure how much that is, but maybe right before engine and prop mount I'm guessing.
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I mounted my engine at home but I did the prop at the hangar. In my case I moved too early. The hangar became available and I simply got antsy about renting something and not using it --big mistake. When I moved I still had a ton of stuff to do that could have been done at home. I could have easily waited until I needed to mate the wings, so I cost myself a bunch of time and gas in my haste to move.
 
OkieAviator said:
My airport is a good 25 mins away. I plane to literally do as much as possible in my garage before I move my project... not sure how much that is, but maybe right before engine and prop mount I'm guessing.
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No. Absolutely not. Mount the engine, mount the prop, fit the baffles, run all of the plumbing, complete the cowling. Mount the wings and rig the ailerons, flaps, and tips in the driveway. Finish everything at home, including terminating every wire, powering up every system, and finishing every fairing. You'll be 3x as efficient time wise at home as you are in fits and spurts at the hangar.

In most cases, there is no bathroom at the hangar. In most cases, the TV and couch (necessary for the occasional 5 minute mental recharge) are not at the hangar. The hangar is hot. The hangar is cold. You cannot walk out to the hangar to check something when an idea (or an oh-Shiite) pops into your mind at an odd hour. The specialty tool you need (even though you didn't think you would) is always at the house. Once you're home in the evening, you can't easily go to the hangar to steal 30 minutes of project time. All of these things work against you unless you can schedule 8 hours at a time at the hangar.

Do everything possible at home. Everything.

Am I clear? ;-)
 
OkieAviator said:
Hope it all fits in the 2 car side of the garage!
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Until you put the wings on, any of the 2 seat RV's will fit in a single car garage (or half of a 2 car). You may have to leave the spinner and rudder off, but that's no big deal. Then, you roll it out onto the driveway to rig the wings.

No muss, no fuss.
 
yakdriver said:
That's the only way to get these done. I work in the hangar almost every day and even if its just for a half hour. I try to put 25 hrs a week in as much as I can. The Supercub I'm building now will probably take 800-1000 hrs. Don
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Are you doing plans or kit? I've spent way too much time reading Bill Rusk's thread on sc.org.
 
Sam, this is a 1954 certified Piper Supercub that got wrecked 6 months ago. I'm basically lifting up the data plate and building a new airplane under it. It has a new Airframes Alaska fuselage with all the mods, new extended tip Dakota Cub wings with slats, O-360 180hp with a MT three blade constant speed prop. It will be a new airplane when I'm done with it and will have a 8" thick pile of paperwork to go with it. I built a Backcountry Supercub a few years ago so I know how long it will take. Don
 

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My RV-8 will take probably 2,000 hours to build. So far, the empennage kit has sat for 17 years untouched due to 1 calamity after another. But now, with the kids gone and and me having an actual garage large enough to park the wife's 2 cars in and still build an airplane, I'm giving it a go.

If I can manage 10 hours a week, I should have it flying before Christmas 2020. I get out to the garage every day I have off. On the 3 days I work, I barely have time to come home and get a nap.

I have everything arranged and have gone over in my mind 1 thing I want to do, whether its clean the shop and organize the tools, build a jig or special tool, or even just drill out a rivet I'm not happy with. My biggest problem is that I've been trying to perfect my flush riveting on the skins. And, so far, i'm just not happy with the result. But, now I have a tungsten bucking bar and a DRDT-2. So, I'm hoping those tools, plus more practice will make the difference.
 
If you don't have a swivel flush set, I highly recommend getting one. This set is more forgiving and will give you consistent results. What gun are you using - 2X or 3X?
 
OkieAviator said:
My airport is a good 25 mins away. I plane to literally do as much as possible in my garage before I move my project... not sure how much that is, but maybe right before engine and prop mount I'm guessing.
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My buddy even hung the engine and prop at home....in his carpeted basement family room! He kept it at home until it was almost ready to fly! Still took nine years to build! (One of the original -6s with nothing pre-punched.)
 
wilkersk said:
My biggest problem is that I've been trying to perfect my flush riveting on the skins. And, so far, i'm just not happy with the result. But, now I have a tungsten bucking bar and a DRDT-2. So, I'm hoping those tools, plus more practice will make the difference.
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Just takes practice. After driven probably a few thousand rivets I'm not happy with all of them. In fact some are just ugly... the good news is structurally if they're fine then painting over them will hide it somewhat.
 
First RV I worked on was -6 kit #7. It had stamped ribs and bulkheads but everything else was up to you to fabricate. It flew in 1991 and I got to fly it for several years. Keep plugging away Kenny and don't try for absolute perfection or you will never get finished. Just make it to a slightly higher standard that a factory built and it will be really nice. Don
 
yakdriver said:
Sam, this is a 1954 certified Piper Supercub that got wrecked 6 months ago. I'm basically lifting up the data plate and building a new airplane under it. It has a new Airframes Alaska fuselage with all the mods, new extended tip Dakota Cub wings with slats, O-360 180hp with a MT three blade constant speed prop. It will be a new airplane when I'm done with it and will have a 8" thick pile of paperwork to go with it. I built a Backcountry Supercub a few years ago so I know how long it will take. Don
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Thanks for the info Don. Sounds like a very cool project.
 
OkieAviator said:
My airport is a good 25 mins away. I plane to literally do as much as possible in my garage before I move my project... not sure how much that is, but maybe right before engine and prop mount I'm guessing.
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That is about the 50% done point.
 
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