Horizon Jumpseater goes crazy

MPB said:
Concur, It's just interesting he didn't fire the bottle.
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Pulling the handle down shuts down the engine. Then you have to twist the handle to fire the bottles. If he had pulled the handles down, there would likely been at least 83 casualties since you cannot restart the engines once they have been shut down that way.
 
Almost FedEx 705 like.
 
Sad story. Fortunately people going through a crisis usually don't think devious plans through. Unfortunately they do stuff like this. I really wish pilots who want to do things like this, or who decide to act out, would not do it in an airplane.
 
I suspect you have to rotate them down, then pull on them for the shut down. I also suspect he got to the rotate them down part, at least partially. Then was met with full adrenaline, we're going to die, rage filled action on behalf of at least one of the pilots before he could get to the shut down pull. It will be interesting to hear the cockpit tapes.
 
X3 Skier said:
Pulling the handle down shuts down the engine. Then you have to twist the handle to fire the bottles. If he had pulled the handles down, there would likely been at least 83 casualties since you cannot restart the engines once they have been shut down that way.
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Really? Not even at altitude ?
 
Thankfully no one was hurt, but this is yet another example of the consequences of the FAA's awful policy on mental health. The FAA would rather incentivize a pilot with mental health issues to not seek help because the alternative is expensive and job jeopardizing.

Sad.
 
Vincent Becker said:
Thankfully no one was hurt, but this is yet another example of the consequences of the FAA's awful policy on mental health. The FAA would rather incentivize a pilot with mental health issues to not seek help because the alternative is expensive and job jeopardizing.

Sad.
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The problem you describe is true, but saying "...this is yet another example..." is premature. We don't really know those details yet. Several scenarios are possible.
 
PaulS said:
I suspect you have to rotate them down, then pull on them for the shut down. I also suspect he got to the rotate them down part, at least partially. Then was met with full adrenaline, we're going to die, rage filled action on behalf of at least one of the pilots before he could get to the shut down pull. It will be interesting to hear the cockpit tapes.
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Pull Down to shut down, then rotate to discharge bottles according to a E175 Pilot.

 
Vincent Becker said:
Thankfully no one was hurt, but this is yet another example of the consequences of the FAA's awful policy on mental health. The FAA would rather incentivize a pilot with mental health issues to not seek help because the alternative is expensive and job jeopardizing.

Sad.
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Please connect the dots for me.

If this pilot has sought competent mental health care, he would have been (rightly) grounded, yes? So how would his possibly being encouraged to do so incentivize other pilots to do so? It sometimes seems like the suggestion is that the FAA should encourage mentally ill pilots to get all help without any consequences, which seems (forgive me) looney.
 
Lindberg said:
Please connect the dots for me.

If this pilot has sought competent mental health care, he would have been (rightly) grounded, yes? So how would his possibly being encouraged to do so incentivize other pilots to do so? It sometimes seems like the suggestion is that the FAA should encourage mentally ill pilots to get all help without any consequences, which seems (forgive me) looney.
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Never said doing so shouldn't come without consequences. Just try to not make it a $10,000 and years long affair for seeing a therapist 3 or 4 times for situational anxiety/depression because your wife or girlfriend left you. You know, a more reasonable approach.
 
172andyou said:
Can you imagine going to prison for that. It's gotta be the worst to be sitting in jail for failing to commit a crime...
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Attempted murder is still very much a crime. Just not necessarily the one he was aiming for.
 
I would be shocked if he didn't have some sort of history or previously reportable condition.
 
Vincent Becker said:
Never said doing so shouldn't come without consequences. Just try to not make it a $10,000 and years long affair for seeing a therapist 3 or 4 times for situational anxiety/depression because your wife or girlfriend left you. You know, a more reasonable approach.
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How does that relate to this situation?
 
We simply don’t know.

This pilot may have been receiving treatment and stopped taking medication. Or he might have had some unknown trigger a few hours prior. Or any number of other scenarios.

It’s very premature, and unjustified, to presume he had a mental illness but didn’t seek treatment out of fear of an FAA action. There are no facts yet to support such a supposition.
 
X3 Skier said:
Yes. It shuts off all fluid to the engine including Jet-A. No gas, no go. Has to be reset by maintenance on the ground.

See post 40
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The handles were both pulled and reset before the engines quit. The person speaking in post #40 is mistaken.

“Alaska Air spokesperson Alexa Rudin said via email that “fortunately some residual fuel remains in the line, and the quick reaction of our crew to reset the handles restored fuel flow and prevented fuel starvation.”
 
Not going to get specific here, but a pilot from a major 121 carrier had a hangar near me with his aircraft in it.

He hung himself in the hangar a while back. Wonder if things would have gone better had be been comfortable seeking help…. :/
 
the reality is - this person never should have been in the cockpit if it was a mental health diagnosis of some kind. We obviously dont know. But saying that this is another example of the FAA and their mental health policies is twisting the end result to some sort of other reality. The reality is that if it was a mental health issue - they will probably go harder in the other direction. And most people would say rightfully so. They cant and shouldnt take chances that endanger that many people because you just dont know how someone will act or react.
 
The NY Post has the wrong flight posted. The flight came out of KPAE in Everett to the north, going south. Not surprised given the Post's reputation. That flight track appears to be missed approach to PDX and a landing Redmond, OR.
 
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Vincent Becker said:
Thankfully no one was hurt, but this is yet another example of the consequences of the FAA's awful policy on mental health. The FAA would rather incentivize a pilot with mental health issues to not seek help because the alternative is expensive and job jeopardizing.

Sad.
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So, we want mentally ill pilots to be flying airplanes with lots of people on them? Compassion is a fine thing, but not everywhere, all the time. I would offer that flying an airliner is one of those places that we need top performers not needy marginal performers.
 
Meh… been done before, with a CRASH AXE… didn’t affect jumpseating.

So if there is a policy change, more a sign of the times then.

What ever caused the “break” will change something. Most likely in medical certification.
 
Do you really think he self reported?
 

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You can criticize the FAA medical policies on mental health issues, but historical speaking, it's hard to argue with the results of the primary reason for the policies. Protecting the public.

If the alternative is ultimately to let more people fly with some form of mental health issue, I doubt the results would be better than the current policies.

I understand the complaints, and unfairness for many, as a result of the polices. However, I doubt we'll ever hear a politician, or FAA administrator stand up and say,

"We need to relax the firm rules we have on mental health of pilots."

Unfortunately, it's the type of industry that cannot afford "fairness" when the failure mode is the death of hundreds of people.
 
I wonder what they told the pax about why they were diverting to Portland.
 
I am not justifying any actions here, I just don’t know, but…
How difficult would it be to pull the shut down handles ? I mean at least one of them successfully. I’m a bit surprised he wasn’t successful. And if so, doesn’t the aircraft have a reasonable chance of making an emergency landing?
I do want to hear his side of the story because this is very out of character.
 
Morgan3820 said:
So, we want mentally ill pilots to be flying airplanes with lots of people on them? Compassion is a fine thing, but not everywhere, all the time. I would offer that flying an airliner is one of those places that we need top performers not needy marginal performers.
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Yeah, but that is begging the question. Perhaps addressing the issue early on would prevent it from getting to the point of being dangerous.
 
The human brain is complex, and it’s easy to say you shouldn’t have these thoughts (aka a mental illness), I think we all experience similar thoughts and ways of thinking, but our upbringing, love received and values is what makes our actions in real life. Aka we can tell the difference from movies and real life.

I don’t think us saying we are better for this and that, helps those who were raised with less, and with social media that isn’t helping either.

There is too much stigma on mental illness, I’m sure we all experience mental health issues at some point in our life.

And I’m not justifying anyones actions, I just want to see everyone live life to their fullest.
 
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