Holy TFR - SoCal

eetrojan

eetrojan

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eetrojan
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It's a good thing I wasn't planning to do my first solo XC today (Edit, they're actually for Tue-Wed). There are TFRs every way you look. There are even TFRs inside of other TFRs.

TFRs_2013-08-04.jpg
 
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I have a few pilot friends that tell me there is no reason to get my IFR ticket, they will never get one. This is just another reason for me to finish this rating off.
 
At the expense of my possibly being called a lazy bum, what are those for?
 
So, assuming we could get the votes, would it be possible to get congress to pass a law that these TFRs would not follow the president everywhere?

What happens when he travels abroad? Do foreign governments give him a TFR?
 
jpower said:
At the expense of my possibly being called a lazy bum, what are those for?
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You got me curious, so I read the actual TFRs and this is what I see. The blue one is big, and in effect for a long time:

TFRs_2013-08-04_Annotated.jpg
 
Timing is everything! I start 5 days of recurrent training in Long Beach tomorrow. Hopefully I won't have to deal with this mess.
 
jpower said:
At the expense of my possibly being called a lazy bum, what are those for?
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The sheeple that think thier govt is protecting POTUS.

All they are doing is preventing legitimate businesses in the aviation industry from making any $$ in the next few days to pay into ObamaCare.
 
Why does the brown one (above) exist as it is surrounded by the blue one both in time and dimension.
 
DesertNomad said:
Why does the brown one (above) exist as it is surrounded by the blue one both in time and dimension.
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Reading the NOTAM, it seems like the restrictions with the "inner cores" are very tight (military aircraft supporting the United States Secret Service service, and the President only), whereas the restrictions in the "outer rings" are much looser (aircraft departing local airfields and, workload permitting, ATC-authorized transit operations).
 
[email protected] said:
Reading the NOTAM, it seems like the restrictions with the "inner cores" are very tight (military aircraft supporting the United States Secret Service service, and the President only), whereas the restrictions in the "outer rings" are much looser (aircraft departing local airfields and, workload permitting, ATC-authorized transit operations).
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Yup, for anything but training the outer rings aren't horrible. Being on an IFR clearance helps a bunch but it can be done VFR.
 
Just be thankful you don't live in Chicago where he lives.
 
I'm flying tomorrow - so I'll miss it - but the issue with most of these is that is it hard to get a transit through the 10/30nm ring. The TFR states that transit ops are at the discretion of ATC basically. I'm based at POC which is outside the 30nm right by about 3nm. When these things happen we often use 8L/R in the am when the winds are calm and land 26L/R - but if you want to get anywhere IFR you have to enter the TFR.

I've done it before. Many have. The last few times it has been a 33nm TFR which covers half our airport and then the outbound portion of the departure used 100% of the time - then you need to find a hole somewhere over the valley if you are heading to the Bay Area or the central coast - it does not affect the jets much cause they can climb above the turb from the heat and the mountains - but the rest of us are down low and get beat up over the mountains to stay out of the 10nm no fly zones. The real crapper here is that BUR/EMT and even VNY and SMO are inside the multiple no-fly zones . . . thats a real pain in the . . . .
 
DesertNomad said:
Why does the brown one (above) exist as it is surrounded by the blue one both in time and dimension.
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I made this semi-accurate animation from the same graphic. I shortened the overnight stay (purple inner core, blue outer ring), but it otherwise shows how the inner cores and outer rings move around in time and location.

You can almost see Obama moving around from 3pm on Tuesday 8/7 to 2:30 pm on Wednesday 8/8 - arriving at LAX (red in blue), going to something downtown (brown in blue), staying overnight (purple in blue), having breakfast (orange in blue), visiting Camp Pendleton (red in red), and then departing (green in green).

POTUS_TFR_2013-08-06-to-07.gif
 
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So we are worrying about AQAP taking a whack at 'US interests' and we continue to locate the President's LAT/LONG within 100 yards day after day after day
 
Well, if you google map the lat/long of the overnight TFR, he's sleeping in an L shaped strip mall with a hair salon, according to the street view.

Yes, it was a slow afternoon, the plane is in the shop, okay?
 
Clark1961 said:
Yup, for anything but training the outer rings aren't horrible. Being on an IFR clearance helps a bunch but it can be done VFR.
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Am in Laguna on vacation and headed north on Tuesday. Looks like I will be lucky and will have just left town before it becomes active.

In my home town (El Paso), his visits severely shut down ALL VFR traffic. ATC doesn't recognize the 'work oermitting' statement and won't let anything move. The problem is that we are a border town. His presence blocks the only 2 ways to transit (downtown and Anthony gap) due to the White Sands restricted areas immediately to our north. Transiting AC have to set down at Las Cruces to the west and Fabens to the east if they're VFR. Circumventing the restricted areas takes you WAY north in our area.
 
Luvrv8 said:
I have a few pilot friends that tell me there is no reason to get my IFR ticket, they will never get one. This is just another reason for me to finish this rating off.
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Why is this a reason to finish off the rating?
 
kkoran said:
Why is this a reason to finish off the rating?
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Not to change the topic, but the instrument rating was probably one of the best things I ever did in aviation.

Unless you fly a VFR-only aircraft, there is no good reason NOT to get it.
 
These TFRs were bogus when 43 was in office, and make no more sense nw.

Query: are the TFRs worse (quantity, size, duration, restrictions) now than they were then? I just don't know. Recall that, when President Bush came to Dallas, the resultant TFR shut down KADS completely.
 
SCCutler said:
These TFRs were bogus when 43 was in office, and make no more sense nw.

Query: are the TFRs worse (quantity, size, duration, restrictions) now than they were then? I just don't know. Recall that, when President Bush came to Dallas, the resultant TFR shut down KADS completely.
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I'm in general agreement with your point. I'll also point out that it isn't just unscheduled flight ops that are disturbed since they also close freeways and restrict parking. We've created a monster and it isn't going away.
 
I've never flown the LA basin before (or any Cali for that matter) but I keep getting pulled in that direction, evertime I see the ATC and TFR nightmare It makes me think more and more that I will dread the day I give up the peaceful flying of the plains for the cluster of LA.
 
catmandu said:
Well, if you google map the lat/long of the overnight TFR, he's sleeping in an L shaped strip mall with a hair salon, according to the street view.

Yes, it was a slow afternoon, the plane is in the shop, okay?
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It doesn't take much to figure out where he is going to be . . .
 
Is this the first time you've encountered a presidential cluster F?

It's like that. Every time. And you have to read the NOTAMs because they aren't as nasty as it looks. There are usually no more than two of those TFRs active at a time, and unless you want to fly pattern work locally, the outer ring is not that big a deal. You need a flight plan and a squawk code (flight following), so if you want to train, pick an airport outside the ring and fly a cross-country there by the most direct route. That's not prohibited.

Routing gets annoying if you want to cross an outer ring.
To head off the partisan silliness, it was EXACTLY the same under the previous administration.
 
And the Disney Land TFR (Permanent ) is missing from this map.
 
MAKG1 said:
Is this the first time you've encountered a presidential cluster F?
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Yup.


MAKG1 said:
It's like that. Every time. And you have to read the NOTAMs because they aren't as nasty as it looks. There are usually no more than two of those TFRs active at a time, and unless you want to fly pattern work locally, the outer ring is not that big a deal. You need a flight plan and a squawk code (flight following), so if you want to train, pick an airport outside the ring and fly a cross-country there by the most direct route. That's not prohibited.

Routing gets annoying if you want to cross an outer ring.
To head off the partisan silliness, it was EXACTLY the same under the previous administration.
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Thanks. It looked a lot more intimidating when they're all shown together without regard to their effective time. I also now understand the difference between the "inner core" and the "outer ring". I learned a lot from this thread.
 
MAKG1 said:
No it isn't.
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He's probably talking about the animated map. The Disney TFR is shown in the static maps, but not in the animated one.

MAKG1 said:
It also tops out at 3000, so it's not nearly so hard to deal with.
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And per the NOTAM*, so long as you're on flight following with SoCal Approach, you can fly through the Disney TFR like it's not there. At least that's what I've been taught and, in my limited time, have experienced.

*It says that the restrictions do not apply to aircraft that are "authorized by and in contact with ATC for operational or safety of flight purposes."
 
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Has anyone ever been "busted" for flying through the Disney TFR? I doubt ATC cares about this one very much.
 
dans2992 said:
Has anyone ever been "busted" for flying through the Disney TFR? I doubt ATC cares about this one very much.
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If you fly into Kisimmee, FL there is a good chance ATC will send you right thru the Disney TFR.
 
dans2992 said:
Has anyone ever been "busted" for flying through the Disney TFR? I doubt ATC cares about this one very much.
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Probably not, Socal sends planes through it quite frequently from my experience. I think the point that of it is to prevent GA planes from loitering the area.
 
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