Hit some "light" turbulence today - questions

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by CC268, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. Half Fast

    Half Fast Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    Messages:
    2,014
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Half Fast
    SkyDog58 likes this.
  2. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    Not when I checked this morning but maybe one was issued after I took off idk
     
  3. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    13,175
    Location:
    North Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    6PC
    1. The stall horn chirps are no biggie so don't let that bug you if you are cruising along and the rough air is tripping it.
    2. There is a time when I would have turned around and a time I likely wouldn't have.

    I turned around lots of times for things I now know I can get through.
    You're fine. Erring on the side of caution is never the wrong thing to do.
     
    Tantalum and CC268 like this.
  4. mscard88

    mscard88 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    21,336
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
     
  5. Sundancer

    Sundancer Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,158
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Sundog
    Hearing the horn briefly in turbulence isn't too unusual; IMHO, I tend to think of turbulence as annoying, rather than dangerous. But when you hit the "stops" on the controls, then it's probably a good sign to go home, especially the elevator stops. But flying for fun, you don't have to make a fight out of it, and I think you made a good call.
     
    Rhino and CC268 like this.
  6. mtuomi

    mtuomi En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    2,855
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    dera
    When it's really bumpy, you'll hear the stall horn chirping all the time even when you're in cruise.
     
    Zeldman and CC268 like this.
  7. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,213
    Location:
    The True Southeast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc
    Not all of us have those horns. ;)
     
  8. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,861
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoCal RV Flyer
    Yeah, I was gonna say I get around the stall warning horn by not having one. :D

    I've turned back a couple of times due to turbulence, going up a particularly ornery local pass, when it just didn't feel right. When stuff in the load area starts levitating, that's my limit!
     
    Sundancer and CC268 like this.
  9. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    2,944
    Location:
    KFAR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WannaFly
    I am.like u. I don't like being bumped around. During my training there were days when it was bumpy, I would just sit there do nothing and have CFI fly it. It was so bad that when I expressed my interest in buying a plane my CFI flat out said, I don't know if i can solo u, not sure if u shud buy a plane. He was not wrong making that comment. I got used to it. Had a few flight s pretty bumpy (light turb I am sure, but in my mind the wings were seperating) but I realized I lived thru it and didn't let Jesus fly the plane. Just came back from KGPZ and did hit some updrafts over the lake area, didn't worry about it. It gets better. But I will also say, the min I think it's beyond my personal limit, I am finding an airport (which would be pretty easy since I plan my flight in a way that there is at least 2 airport between my departure and destination) and landing and try again later.

    I think u made a sound ADM not to push when it was getting beyond ur limit.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  10. SaltH2OHokie

    SaltH2OHokie Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    253
    Location:
    Eastern Shore, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    I misread "cave dive" as "cliff dive".

    It's a funnier mental image of a cliff diving instructor (in a speedo?) telling a nervous student he can call the dive anytime.
     
    WannFly likes this.
  11. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,939
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    OP keeps saying microburst. Any indication of the weather where they occur being anywhere near you? If so, WTH were you doing flying VFR?

    Also, we know how many miles in before a front the weather starts getting disturbed. Anything like that in your pre or post analysis of the weather?

    I'm a chop wimp myself. I slow down or set down when it get bumpy.

    You started with 8000' to 10000' with rain. Where is that rain coming from? Could be moisture being pulled up into the cloud, condensing and falling? I wouldn't expect a smooth ride below that.

    But then, I got a D in meteorology.
     
  12. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    I was just exaggerating. Seriously...if you saw the weather you would not have thought it to be a "bad" day to fly by any stretch. The rain was a very very light drizzle for probably less than 30 seconds. But you could be right about your last statement regarding the moisture being pulled up, condensing, and then falling.
     
  13. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    Sort of off topic, but we get virga like this quite a bit in AZ. I know @mtuomi has experience with this. Do you just completely avoid and don't go near any areas that look like this?

    virga.JPG
     
  14. mtuomi

    mtuomi En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    2,855
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    dera
    The important thing is to understand what actually is happening there. The evaporation cools down the air, and it obviously causes the air to sink. This usually only happens within a very limited radius around the virga.
    Don't fly under it, give it a few miles, and you'll be fine. Underneath it, you're going to have a bad day.
    The really powerful stuff needs a lot more moisture, they look like this:

     
  15. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    Roger that thanks for the tips
     
  16. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,939
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    Does rain happen any other way?
     
    KA550 likes this.
  17. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    I’m not sure why you feel the need to be a smart ass? Everyone else here has been very helpful. Maybe I am misinterpreting your post.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  18. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,861
    Location:
    cone of confusion
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    KPTK
    Must have been a cereal killer. :D
     
  19. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,856
    Location:
    Eclectic, AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Hank
    More like "Woe be here" since MN Public Radio fired Garrison Keilor for inappropriate sexual conduct in the workplace . . .
     
  20. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,939
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    Perhaps others are explaining weather in a way you find more helpful. Or you're exaggerating my being a smart ass like you chose to with your microburst.

    Nonetheless... the way rain happens is fairly settled science.

    Numerous threads here talk about managing energy in flight. Among the energies we cannot control are the uneven heating of the earth's surface, which leads to ____, and evaporation that pulls moisture up through the air to form ______ and ___. Flying through those energy events may just disturb the ride a bit. Maybe.
     
  21. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    Roger that
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  22. jspilot

    jspilot Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,079
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    jspilot
    I think the one thing to keep in mind with turbulence is it is almost always unpredictable. We all know we can check the winds aloft, avoid flying under clouds and the like but the unpredictability of the turbulence leads me to wonder "how much longer is this going to go on for?"when in it. That's not fun and that unpredictability can be unsettling especially when one is a new pilot. Maybe it will end in 3 miles.... Maybe 20.... There is really no way to tell!

    Therefore, I'll admit, with a passenger on board, I've aborted a flight a few times because of turbulence. By myself,I'll keep going but I'm more sensative with a passenger.

    OP, thanks for sharing your story. The guys giving you a hard time about being sensative are not doingyou any favors. Take the advice given and ignore all the noise from the name callers!
     
    tspatrick, SoCal RV Flyer and Rhino like this.
  23. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    9,999
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Old dog w/o new tricks
    That could really wash out a day of flying.
     
  24. Rhino

    Rhino Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Double oak Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ray
    One thing that I don’t believe was mentioned previously is that if turbulence is encounter is consider slowing the plane down to maneuvering speed (Va). Not only is it better on the aircraft, but smooths the bumps for you and your passengers. May be a loose analogy, but to me it’s kind of like the difference between taking your car down a really bumpy round at 10mph versus 30-40 mph.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Ravioli likes this.
  25. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,503
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    Not me man, I'd do just the opposite. I don't want to die alone.

    ;)

    OP - you did the right thing.
     
    Radar Contact likes this.
  26. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    The maneuvering speed in my cherokee is is 129 mph. Which is funny because my typical cruise speed is 115-120 mph. I was no where near even that in this occasion so I was well below VA.
     
  27. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,721
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    Sounds like maybe a light mountain wave preceding the front that is coming in.

    Was this while over the "shelf"?
     
  28. ActiveAir

    ActiveAir Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    SoCal
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ActiveAir
    Turb doesn't always smooth out by climbing. Yesterday, while flying back to SoCal from NoCal (I was around Visalia), I was hitting some pretty good light to moderate turb at around 9500. I asked ATC for ride reports, and they said mod turb had been reported between 8500 and 13,500. I descended to 7500, and everything smoothed out. It was clear skies where I was, but I was west of the Sierras, and the wind was out of the east.

    Airmet Tangos aren't a guarantee for turbulence. There was one for most of my route of flight for under 12k and below, and only in that one area did I find any turb. More times than not, I have had smooth flights through ATs. They are not in and of themselves, reasons to cancel flights.

    Use winds and temps aloft forecasts, pireps, and ask ATC for ride reports. Also, look at any frontal activity, note the surrounding terrain enroute, and figure time of day for your flights.

    An understanding of types of turbulences and their causes is a big help. Here was a quick site I found helpful....http://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lists/2016/03/types-of-turbulence-that-can-rock-your-flight/

    I always, immediately, slow to at or slightly below Va when the turb gets kicking pretty good. I also, tighten the lap belt, so I don't get knocked out hitting my head on the ceiling....:confused:

    It's a part of life in the SW.
     
    rtk11 and Rhino like this.
  29. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    Yea I was thinking maybe the same thing. If you look at a VFR chart of the Phoenix area you can see Squaw Peak as a visual reporting point. Just north of KPHX. In that area is where this was happening.
     
  30. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    Great post. Thanks for the help.
     
  31. JonH

    JonH Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    San Diego
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JonH
    My last trip with my dad was supposed to be 2.5 hours and ended up being 0.45. I returned home over much less of an issue.

    We're both still alive, that's all that matters.

    Wx should be scary.
     
    Rhino likes this.
  32. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,721
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    Ok, I see where you were at.

    I seem to remember coming into KPHX from the north east and the ride smoothing out most of the time once I get below 7000-8000 msl and past the shelf. During summer that is. Monsoon season is a different story.

    Passenger comfort is part of flying. No big deal turning around if passengers are hanging on for dear life.
     
  33. ActiveAir

    ActiveAir Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    SoCal
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ActiveAir
    It's also better to turn off the auto pilot with anything more than light turb. You can do a better job of smoothing out the bumps and so your ap won't get over-worked.

    Worst turb I've experienced is in the Owens Valley, heading up to Mammoth, or back down from Lake Tahoe. Had to climb to over 16,500' and put on O2. Rotors are gnarly and no fun.
     
  34. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,167
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    No autopilot in the ole Cherokee 140 lol
     
  35. ActiveAir

    ActiveAir Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    SoCal
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ActiveAir
    Doh....nevermind.
     
  36. rtk11

    rtk11 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    Southern California
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rtk
    Can I ask what time of day (and year) that was? I am thinking of flying up through the Owens Valley to visit with a friend at KCXP one of these days. As a SP flying a LSA, I have a ceiling of 10,000 feet. Do you think it would be just too brutal a flight in a LSA?
     
  37. mtuomi

    mtuomi En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    2,855
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    dera
    Depends on the winds. Summers can be bad.
     
  38. ActiveAir

    ActiveAir Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    SoCal
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ActiveAir
    All the flights were in winter, in February or March. Morning and late afternoon flights. It is not always windy through the valley. What you want to pay attention to are the winds speeds coming over the Sierras from the West. If the wind speeds are over 15 -20kts, it probably won't be comfortable through the valley. Some guys have higher tolerances.

    Check the winds aloft @ 10k, 12K & 15K, maps here: http://aviationweather.gov/adds/winds/

    There is another website for wind reports over the Sierras, but I can't find the link. A lot of good posts on flying the Owens Valley over on AOPA forums.

    CharlieTango on this forum flies (or used to fly) an LSA out of Mammoth. Look up some of his posts.

    An understanding of flying in the mountains, and mountain wave, etc. is very important before you go. My plane is a Comanche 260B, with 3 blade prop and an internal O2 system for the higher alts.
     
    rtk11 likes this.
  39. rtk11

    rtk11 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    Southern California
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rtk
    Thanks guys. And thanks for the great links, ActiveAir! :cheerswine: