Historical Sectionals

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Feb 23, 2005
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west Texas
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Dave Taylor
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KMRF
Is there a site that offers these?
Was looking for El Paso & San Antonio, but only in the last 10-20 years.
Could find nothing in the Library of Congress but it was not an intuitive search.
 
i could not dig what i wanted out of that site :(


340fe6c19245484f9c512a4529557771.jpg


ETA: not a sectional, but
430186f9e59c2ba5ff058196f9a023d3.jpg


 
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Those are really cool, love to see the huge changes, and imagine what it was like to fly in those conditions!

For my project I’m looking for changes (in the last 15 yrs) in the large block of “class E to 14,500” seen north of the Mexican border in west Texas - I’ll try to post a screen grab soon.
ThanksIMG_2476.jpeg
 
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It's crazy to me how much that area has exploded. It's like someone took this map and just spilled a gallon of yellow paint on it.

Also, Greater Southwest Int'l aka Amon Carter field... What a story! Paul Freeman's Abandoned Airfields writeup on it has lots of cool pictures and stories. When I was in Dallas recently, I may have briefly nerded out when we crossed Amon Carter Boulevard... And I think it's cool that there's still a chunk of GSW's runway 17 on the southern border of DFW. Kind of crazy that they didn't use the existing airport and instead built an entirely new one. "Progress."
 
It's crazy to me how much that area has exploded. It's like someone took this map and just spilled a gallon of yellow paint on it.

Also, Greater Southwest Int'l aka Amon Carter field... What a story! Paul Freeman's Abandoned Airfields writeup on it has lots of cool pictures and stories. When I was in Dallas recently, I may have briefly nerded out when we crossed Amon Carter Boulevard... And I think it's cool that there's still a chunk of GSW's runway 17 on the southern border of DFW. Kind of crazy that they didn't use the existing airport and instead built an entirely new one. "Progress."
Kent:

You'd have to understand the depth of the animosity between Dallas and Fort Worth back in the day; DFW was the only (and best) choice, and in hindsight, an amazingly good decision. Still, who ever could have guessed the juggernaut that DFW would become? When it opened, only one airline had enough traffic there to justify its own terminal - Braniff! AA shared with Eastern.

Amon Carter Field, later renamed Greater Southwest International in an effort to make it not offensive (failed effort) was a pretty robust airport for its time, but it was (purposely) built entirely within the city limits of Fort Worth (said city limits reconfigured to encompass the airport without burdening the City of Fort Worth with the obligation to provide services to anyone on the way), which made it a non-starter for Dallasites.

More practically, the majority of critical business traffic was Dallas-oriented, and in those days, driving to ACF/GSW to travel was an absolutely ludicrous notion - start an airplane trip with an hour-plus drive? Nah.

Other issues - Amon Carter, who was Fort Worth's long-time mayor and owner of the Fort Worth paper (the Star-Telegram), after whom the airport was named, was a very substantial shareholder in American Airlines, while the Dallas airline of choice, Dallas-based Braniff International Airways, was Love Field based. Dallas folks rankled at being asked to drive to Fort Worth to fly on an airline largely owned by a man who was open and obvious in his expressions of contempt for Dallas (he famously was known to always bring a sack lunch with him when business brought him to Dallas so he could avoid spending money with a Dallas business).

Fact is, having the big airport between the cities was a good idea, one discussed at length for decades before it actually happened, but it took the CAB (Feds) refusing any more airport development funds until a deal was reached to actually make it happen. Politically, it was best, because neither side (Dallas nor Fort Worth) had to "blink" - it was imposed upon them.

So when all that started happening for real (mid-sixties), expanding GSW looked like a good idea, but not only was it politically impossible, GSW, while thoroughly modern by early 50s standards, was utterly inadequate to ever be expanded to become a useful airport of the scale DFW was destined to be; and the DFW Airport Board recognized this, and embarked on the audacious and well-crafted plan to build what is, operationally, perhaps the best airport in the world (especially airside). They acquired what most said was way too much property (while it was cheap), so they'd have room for expansion that many said would never come. Instead, it is huge and effective, and has room to grow a great deal more without crippling and stupid changes (hello, ORD and LGA).

The terminal GSW was a beautiful building, and Fort Worth maintained it like it was going to spring back in to operation; would have made a great set for a doomsday, "where did all the people go," kind of movie. My dad would take me there for airshows, and I even got one of my first airplane rides there during one airshow (it was in a brand-new Cherokee Six).

Happy to share more some day when we're (1) at the same table, and (2) holding frosty brews!
 
Kent:

You'd have to understand the depth of the animosity between Dallas and Fort Worth back in the day; DFW was the only (and best) choice, and in hindsight, an amazingly good decision. Still, who ever could have guessed the juggernaut that DFW would become? When it opened, only one airline had enough traffic there to justify its own terminal - Braniff! AA shared with Eastern.

Amon Carter Field, later renamed Greater Southwest International in an effort to make it not offensive (failed effort) was a pretty robust airport for its time, but it was (purposely) built entirely within the city limits of Fort Worth (said city limits reconfigured to encompass the airport without burdening the City of Fort Worth with the obligation to provide services to anyone on the way), which made it a non-starter for Dallasites.

More practically, the majority of critical business traffic was Dallas-oriented, and in those days, driving to ACF/GSW to travel was an absolutely ludicrous notion - start an airplane trip with an hour-plus drive? Nah.

Other issues - Amon Carter, who was Fort Worth's long-time mayor and owner of the Fort Worth paper (the Star-Telegram), after whom the airport was named, was a very substantial shareholder in American Airlines, while the Dallas airline of choice, Dallas-based Braniff International Airways, was Love Field based. Dallas folks rankled at being asked to drive to Fort Worth to fly on an airline largely owned by a man who was open and obvious in his expressions of contempt for Dallas (he famously was known to always bring a sack lunch with him when business brought him to Dallas so he could avoid spending money with a Dallas business).

Fact is, having the big airport between the cities was a good idea, one discussed at length for decades before it actually happened, but it took the CAB (Feds) refusing any more airport development funds until a deal was reached to actually make it happen. Politically, it was best, because neither side (Dallas nor Fort Worth) had to "blink" - it was imposed upon them.

So when all that started happening for real (mid-sixties), expanding GSW looked like a good idea, but not only was it politically impossible, GSW, while thoroughly modern by early 50s standards, was utterly inadequate to ever be expanded to become a useful airport of the scale DFW was destined to be; and the DFW Airport Board recognized this, and embarked on the audacious and well-crafted plan to build what is, operationally, perhaps the best airport in the world (especially airside). They acquired what most said was way too much property (while it was cheap), so they'd have room for expansion that many said would never come. Instead, it is huge and effective, and has room to grow a great deal more without crippling and stupid changes (hello, ORD and LGA).

The terminal GSW was a beautiful building, and Fort Worth maintained it like it was going to spring back in to operation; would have made a great set for a doomsday, "where did all the people go," kind of movie. My dad would take me there for airshows, and I even got one of my first airplane rides there during one airshow (it was in a brand-new Cherokee Six).

Happy to share more some day when we're (1) at the same table, and (2) holding frosty brews!
Ah. I had thought that the animosity was mostly just from Carter himself. I didn't realize that it was more of a Chicago-Milwaukee/Green Bay kind of situation, since that's more driven by the state line than the city limits!

But, it seems that maybe expansion of the existing airport could have been done more cheaply because of the existing land and runways, and be just as good and large and everything else as DFW is now. Basically, you could have ended up with DFW but just a mile or so to the south-southwest. Force Fort Worth to give up their control of the land and create the City of Flying Brisket or whatever to make it back into neutral territory.

Plowing under a pretty new airport because it happens to be on the wrong side of an imaginary line is pretty silly.
 
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