How to get historical FAA Charts... all of em?

schmookeeg

schmookeeg

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Mike Brannigan
Hello,

I have always been fascinated with old sectionals and usually blow a large amount of cash at Oshkosh in the flea tents that carry them.. but I've been thinking more expansively recently.

What about an FOIA request to FAA/NACO/Whomever requesting scans/digitized copies of every civilian aeronautical chart they've ever made and/or still have record of? I don't want anything sensitive, military, whatever.. just whatever official charts they have and are willing to share for a fee, ideally digitized for me if it's not already. I wonder how one even scans a sectional... do they have giant scanners? :D

Assuming that this undertaking would take a few grand in fees (fine, no prob), would they even be responsive to such a request? Is there an easier/better path I might consider first?

Would FAA be the right agency to aim this at? Or maybe... some more official historical recordkeeping body that keeps this junk? I'm really DC ignorant so I'm not even 100% sure who I'd direct this to.

If I made a first attempt, I might just try for specific years (say, every 5 years) just to warm up and test the process out.

Idle thoughts. :)
 
FOIA only applies to records they have. Do you think someone is sitting on an ancient chart archive?

The FAA didn't start producing charts until about a decade ago. Prior to that NOAA did.

I think you underestimate the duplication charges even if the government had the documents. The rate is .15 per (8.5x11) page. The government is not obliged to scan things.
 
Also isn't the FOIA about information that ISN'T already public? This is simply historical records, which are already out there and always have been. It's not their job to find it for you.
 
flyingron said:
FOIA only applies to records they have. Do you think someone is sitting on an ancient chart archive?
Click to expand...

The opposite to that is that they kept zero copies of these things? Or they were destroyed after some archival period? I figured it unlikely that nobody kept a copy anywhere in government for archival purposes, ever. If someone did, though, it's mine for the querying, and I'm trying to figure out where to direct the query.

I agree with the duplication expenses, and joy of tracking down who did what when, which agency, etc.. and I'm willing to do what I can (hence posting it here to start the idea train rolling :) ).. my love of these things is such that I might go to five figures to get a set of them in digital form. My task is to figure out which person to pay to obtain them, and what might even be obtainable.

Re the other reply -- I have no idea about the distinction of public vs private records.. I haven't seen anything that suggests FOIA is for private things only. I'm referencing this:

http://www.dot.gov/foia

To wit, "The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) is a Federal law that gives you the right to access any U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) records... "

My thought process is:

1. IF they have an archive, a formal request will reveal the existence or nonexistence of the archive records to me.

2. IF they do have such an archive, their response will include what items they have available, and an estimate for duplication or digitization (apparently many agencies send oversize items to an external vendor for scanning, so the $$$ threat is a real one :) -- but there is a precedent that they'll accommodate if I'm the one paying for it)

3. If they don't, I can repeat the query at other departments that I think might have wanted to keep a copy until I strike out and go back to the flea tents at Osh..

4. It's not like I can call the FAA and get anywhere at all on this topic, and I haven't gotten even so much as a reply from NACO -- and I've asked them 3 times over the years. Apparently FOIA requests are taken more seriously "because the law" :rolleyes:

(no I'm not bitter than people aren't entertaining this whim of mine, although I'd have enjoyed at a minimum, a "sorry can't help, dunno who can" from them)

Am I misusing the FOIA framework/facility for this errand? I can't think of another way to even attempt this research.



I also ran across this fun thing:

http://historicalcharts.noaa.gov/historicals/search

Which has a lot of aeronautical charts as feedstock.. so clearly they weren't ALL tossed out. It is just far from complete (and oddly, has more of the very very old stuff and not so much of the 40s/50s/60s I'm interested in)
 
I'm sure the stuff is sitting on a shelf somewhere, but I'm also sure it's gonna be next to impossible to find someone who knows where and since it's already "public" you're unlikely to provoke anyone to go looking. Using the FOIA might get them to go dig on something that hasn't been released "because the law" but since it's something in the public domain they are more likely to tell you to find it yourself.
 
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