HIMS AME told me to not report

B

Boeing

Guest
What would you do in this situation?

- Doctor loosely diagnosed me with something, which I believe is an official diagnosis on my record
- Paid a senior HIMS AME (who is also a pilot) for advice on how to proceed
- Goal is to become airline pilot, looking to get class 1 medical for first time
- Senior HIMS AME reviewed my files, I told him the full truth, and the AME asked me a bunch of follow up questions
- At the end, HIMS AME STRONGLY urged me to not report the diagnosis, said you are a perfectly healthy person, never bring this up again
 
The most useless things in aviation are runway behind you, altitude above you, and fuel you left behind.
 
I’d fire this AME in a heartbeat and definitely report them to the FAA.

Lying on an FAA medical is a FELONY career ender, and comes with the unique fashion accessory of bracelets that connect (handcuffs), a complimentary up to 5 year stay in a federal hotel (prison), and a bank account robbery (fine) of up to $250k.

Not a bright idea this AME has just sayin.
 
Dana said:
Presumably the AME reviewed the record, and found there was no official diagnosis? In that case it would be good advice not to report it, no?
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I would say the key is what do the health insurance billing diagnosis codes say? Because that is what the FAA may be initially looking at.
 
Boeing said:
What would you do in this situation?

- Doctor loosely diagnosed me with something, which I believe is an official diagnosis on my record
- Paid a senior HIMS AME (who is also a pilot) for advice on how to proceed
- Goal is to become airline pilot, looking to get class 1 medical for first time
- Senior HIMS AME reviewed my files, I told him the full truth, and the AME asked me a bunch of follow up questions
- At the end, HIMS AME STRONGLY urged me to not report the diagnosis, said you are a perfectly healthy person, never bring this up again
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Curious why you hired the HIMS AME for a consult if you didn't intend to take his advice? You haven't given us enough details to know whether there's anything to report or not, but presumably you did to him. He's a representative of the FAA. But if you don't like his opinion, you could always go to another AME for a second one.
 
Lindberg said:
Curious why you hired the HIMS AME for a consult if you didn't intend to take his advice? You haven't given us enough details to know whether there's anything to report or not, but presumably you did to him. He's a representative of the FAA. But if you don't like his opinion, you could always go to another AME for a second one.
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I feel like I gave enough details. I said there is an official diagnosis on my medical record, which would need to be reported on Medxpress. However, my AME thinks the diagnosis is a bunch of baloney, and thinks I would be a moron to report it. While I would love to take his advice, I'm also fully aware that saying "this ame told me to do this" will fall to deaf ears if the FAA comes cracking down.
 
Boeing said:
I feel like I gave enough details. I said there is an official diagnosis on my medical record, which would need to be reported on Medxpress. However, my AME thinks the diagnosis is a bunch of baloney, and thinks I would be a moron to report it. While I would love to take his advice, I'm also fully aware that saying "this ame told me to do this" will fall to deaf ears if the FAA comes cracking down.
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Actually you haven't given enough details. Practically everything except a common cold has to be reported. Was your diagnosis a disqualifying condition? How hard would it be to prove you never or no longer have the condition? I certainly wouldn't want to start off a new career waiting for the sword of the FAA waiting to fall on me every year or six months...
 
Boeing said:
I feel like I gave enough details. I said there is an official diagnosis on my medical record, which would need to be reported on Medxpress. However, my AME thinks the diagnosis is a bunch of baloney, and thinks I would be a moron to report it. While I would love to take his advice, I'm also fully aware that saying "this ame told me to do this" will fall to deaf ears if the FAA comes cracking down.
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Well your story's already changed. But it doesn't matter. If there's something in your medical history that needs to be reported, report it. It apparently doesn't matter to you what the AME whom you say you hired and paid to tell you how to proceed told you, so why would it matter what SGOTI tells you?
 
idahoflier said:
Actually you haven't given enough details. Practically everything except a common cold has to be reported. Was your diagnosis a disqualifying condition? How hard would it be to prove you never or no longer have the condition? I certainly wouldn't want to start off a new career waiting for the sword of the FAA waiting to fall on me every year or six months...
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My apologies. If I put my diagnosis down, there is a very good chance it will be deferred, and I will need to see a HIMS psychiatrist to prove that I do not have this condition.

To better explain the situation, I'm going to create a completely fake example as to not reveal details. I went to the doctor and told him I was having trouble focusing. Doctor diagnoses me with mild adhd after asking me a couple of questions. We all know how willy nilly doctors can be with diagnoses (I didn't know I wanted to be a pilot at the time, so I didn't push back). I tell this to my hims ame, and of course, he's like wtf, asked me if I ever had a history or adhd, am i on medication, if there were personal reasons why I was having trouble focusing, and some other personal questions, and was like yeah you do not have adhd buddy, do not disclose this...
 
Lindberg said:
Well your story's already changed. But it doesn't matter. If there's something in your medical history that needs to be reported, report it. It apparently doesn't matter to you what the AME whom you say you hired and paid to tell you how to proceed told you, so why would it matter what SGOTI tells you?
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I'm not sure how my story has changed. I said in my original post that I have a diagnosis on my medical record.

I'm not asking people to tell me what to do, I'm just reading different opinions, and will ultimately make the decision myself.
 
My advice:

Since you want to fly as a career...play the long game...not the short game.

One further thing:
Read post #4. Vet before Med Express goes live.
That is rock solid advice.
 
It's amazing to me how people can be willing to gamble on a career and pour thousands of dollars and years of training into a job that can be immediately yanked out from underneath them at the mere disclosure of an intentional omission like the one this OP's AME has suggested.

I guess it stems from a belief that something that is "loosely diagnosed" and recorded just isn't a concern?
 
So, to "boeing": Say you nonreport....and within one cycle you do and you obtain what is necessary to get vetted. At that point the Federal Med. Officer still has the authority to warn, slap yiour wirsts and say (via certified mail), "sin no more.

Now look up Ron Chrisman. Lie and omit several times, and that doesn't happen any more.
www.pilotsofamerica.com

First of 4 Pilots indicted for lying on Medical is Sentenced.

GREGORY JAMES CHRISMAN was sentenced 09/15/2020 to two years probation, lost his pilot certificates and it's unemployed. Chrisman previously worked as a commercial pilot, and this prosecution arises from false statements that Chrisman made on medical certifications submitted to the Federal...
www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com
the alleged HIMS AME on this this case is no more on "the list", BTW.

www.ktvu.com

2 Bay Area pilots indicted on charges of lying on medical forms

SAN FRANCISCO (BCN) Four pilots, including two from the Bay Area, have been indicted by a U.S. grand jury in San Francisco on charges of making false statements to the Federal Aviation Administration about their medical conditions.
www.ktvu.com www.ktvu.com

Don't be a fool.
 
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realistically though, what are the odds of the FAA ever finding out? Probably close to 0. All the cases of people being caught are because they reported the condition to another government agency. There is no scenario where I would ever do this because I do not have this condition. There is 0 chance of this condition worsening and me needing to seek additional treatment because I do not have this condition. I am not, and have never been on medication for this condition. In 10 years, this one single misdiagnosis will be so deep buried in my medical record, no one will never know. So while I am clearly biased, it would seem reporting would actually be an incredibly foolish decision.

My intent is not to come off as argumentative, but ulimately, if I am not 100% convinced, I will continue to voice what I am thinking.
 
boeing said:
I'm not sure how my story has changed. I said iy originall post that I have a diagnosis on my medical record.
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Your initial post said you qu "believe" you have a diagnosis. Yet the AME who reviewed your records disagreed. Then you said there's a diagnosis in your records.. You also gave us a completely fake scenario, that's not helpful at all.

If you want actual advice, then you need to provide more information. According to the example that you gave, if all that happened more than 4 years ago, you'd qualify for the ADHD Fast Track.

As for whether you'd get caught and prosecuted if you like, the odds are much better that you want. I'm certain that we all know pilots who've been lying on thpeir medical applications for years and getting away with it. So that's not the reason to tell the truth. The fact that we only ever see the same examples of pilots i got caught backs that up. Surely there are many Pilots who get caught by some stupid thing that we never hear about. But they're a tiny minority.

Disclose what you're required to disclose, and no more. If you want a second opinion, you'll need to give the same information that you gave the guy who gave you the first opinion.
 
Lindberg said:
Your initial post said you qu "believe" you have a diagnosis. Yet the AME who reviewed your records disagreed. Then you said there's a diagnosis in your records.. You also gave us a completely fake scenario, that's not helpful at all.

If you want actual advice, then you need to provide more information. According to the example that you gave, if all that happened more than 4 years ago, you'd qualify for the ADHD Fast Track.

As for whether you'd get caught and prosecuted if you like, the odds are much better that you want. I'm certain that we all know pilots who've been lying on thpeir medical applications for years and getting away with it. So that's not the reason to tell the truth. The fact that we only ever see the same examples of pilots i got caught backs that up. Surely there are many Pilots who get caught by some stupid thing that we never hear about. But they're a tiny minority.

Disclose what you're required to disclose, and no more. If you want a second opinion, you'll need to give the same information that you gave the guy who gave you the first opinion.
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I never said the AME disagreed that I have the diagnosis on my record. I said the AME disagreed that I have this condition, but never disputed whether or not this diagnosis is on my medical record. My story has been consistent.
 
Boeing said:
I never said the AME disagreed that I have the diagnosis on my record. I said the AME disagreed that I have this condition, but never disputed whether or not this diagnosis is on my medical record. My story has been consistent.
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Your medical record becomes the FAA's medical record, and when the situation presents itself they seem to love going over it with a fine tooth comb, in which case the AME's opinion takes a back seat to factual data, i.e. your medical record. If you like painting yourself into a corner hoping that the paint will dry quickly, go ahead. There's a lot at stake for a revenue pilot, however.
 
On the one hand, as OP has noted, the odds of it being discovered are slim.

On the other hand (1) failing to disclose a known and diagnosed condition is a criminal offense, and (2) if it comes up, it could materially cripple your ability to be an airman in the first place.

Bottom line: if you're staking a future as a professional aviator on this, deal with it properly. Dr. Chien offered golden advice, the real deal. Disregard at your peril.
 
It is really simple for the FAA to pull up your recorded diagnosis if the visit was paid, even in part, by medical insurance. The diagnosis will be recorded in the medical information bureau database and can be requested by the FAA, life insurers, etc.. I had a diagnosis that was still on the books from 1993 that was discovered during application for life insurance when I requested my file from the MIB. I was not required to disclose it because the event was greater than 10 years prior (insurance company policy) and was a non-issue with insurance but was a 'required to report event' with the FAA...leading to an SI. Had I failed to report it I can see how easy it is for the FAA to verify my responses on certain sections of the MedExpress form.
 
robin ardoin said:
It is really simple for the FAA to pull up your recorded diagnosis if the visit was paid, even in part, by medical insurance. The diagnosis will be recorded in the medical information bureau database and can be requested by the FAA, life insurers, etc.. I had a diagnosis that was still on the books from 1993 that was discovered during application for life insurance when I requested my file from the MIB. I was not required to disclose it because the event was greater than 10 years prior (insurance company policy) and was a non-issue with insurance but was a 'required to report event' with the FAA...leading to an SI. Had I failed to report it I can see how easy it is for the FAA to verify my responses on certain sections of the MedExpress form.
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this is very helpful. I am going to pull my MIB record now
 
robin ardoin said:
It is really simple for the FAA to pull up your recorded diagnosis if the visit was paid, even in part, by medical insurance. The diagnosis will be recorded in the medical information bureau database and can be requested by the FAA, life insurers, etc.. I had a diagnosis that was still on the books from 1993 that was discovered during application for life insurance when I requested my file from the MIB. I was not required to disclose it because the event was greater than 10 years prior (insurance company policy) and was a non-issue with insurance but was a 'required to report event' with the FAA...leading to an SI. Had I failed to report it I can see how easy it is for the FAA to verify my responses on certain sections of the MedExpress form.
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I don't have a MIB file. Just tried to pull it, and they said you only have a MIB file if you applied for life insurance?
 
OR IF REQUESTED BY THE FAA. Or other Federal Agencies.

You are obviously a closet gambler.

Engineers make good pilots because they read the manual, and expect the plane to fly as described.

Some people see the book as suggestions, and exceed the limits when needed to meet the flight desired performance. A good friend of mine advanced professionally until he made an entry in the NTSB database, in the fatal category.

Exploring the edges of the rules is not the gateway to a long professional flying career.
 
Lindberg said:
If you want actual advice, then you need to provide more information. According to the example that you gave, if all that happened more than 4 years ago, you'd qualify for the ADHD Fast Track.
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in the example provided, is that fast track likely to lead to certification, and how fast is it?

At the age of 78, one thing I've noticed is that impatience has cost me a lot over the years, with a lot of that cost consisting of lost opportunities.
 
Boeing said:
I don't have a MIB file. Just tried to pull it, and they said you only have a MIB file if you applied for life insurance?
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If you apply for life insurance now, it sounds like that would result in an MIB file being created for you. I wonder whether that would settle any uncertainty over whether there is or is not a diagnosis in your medical records.
 
Palmpilot said:
in the example provided, is that fast track likely to lead to certification, and how fast is it?

At the age of 78, one thing I've noticed is that impatience has cost me a lot over the years, with a lot of that cost consisting of lost opportunities.
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If he qualified for the ADHD fast track, the AME can issue.
 
boeing said:
I'm not sure how my story has changed. I said in my original post that I have a diagnosis on my medical record.
Click to expand...

Boeing said:
- Doctor loosely diagnosed me with something, which I believe is an official diagnosis on my record
Click to expand...
This suggests you're unsure whether you were diagnosed with anything.
Boeing said:
I said there is an official diagnosis on my medical record, which would need to be reported on Medxpress.
Click to expand...
No, you didn't. See above. You didn't say you had a diagnosis in your record, you said you believed you did. And you didn't say you thought it needed to be reported until this post.
Boeing said:
- Senior HIMS AME reviewed my files, I told him the full truth, and the AME asked me a bunch of follow up questions
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You said this in your OP. The Senior HIMS AME reviewed your file and said you had nothing to report.
Boeing said:
I said the AME disagreed that I have this condition, but never disputed whether or not this diagnosis is on my medical record.
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Again, you didn't actually say it was in your record until post #8, but I am still not clear on what's in your record because you later said,
Boeing said:
this is very helpful. I am going to pull my MIB record now
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Was there a diagnosis in the records you provided to the AME, or not? If there was, why do you need to pull your MIB file to see if there's a record?
boeing said:
To better explain the situation, I'm going to create a completely fake example as to not reveal details.
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Completely fake examples do not better explain. In the example you gave, the AME could issue your certificate in the office if the "diagnosis" was more than four years old.
Boeing said:
There is 0 chance of this condition worsening and me needing to seek additional treatment because I do not have this condition. I am not, and have never been on medication for this condition. In 10 years, this one single misdiagnosis will be so deep buried in my medical record, no one will never know.
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So a doctor diagnosed you with a serious, disqualifying condition but never provided any treatment for it?

* * *
I am sure every professional has had the experience of providing advice that gets wildly misconstrued. Based on your posts and the limited information you're giving us, I am more inclined to believe that this is a communication issue than that a senior AME just came out and told you to lie to the FAA. Not that I don't believe that can happen, but it doesn't happen as often as we get people in here complaining about having to jump through FAA hoops because they reported something they weren't required to. So I'm just more inclined to believe that the AME who reviewed your records didn't see anything that required reporting. As a professional, I've also been asked to controvert another professional's opinion based on less information, which is always a trap. If you want a second opinion, go to another AME and give the same information you gave the first one.
 
Lindberg said:
You said this in your OP. The Senior HIMS AME reviewed your file and said you had nothing to report.
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No I didn't say that. I said the HIMS AME "strongly urged me to not report the diagnosis". I did not say the AME said there was no diagnosis.

Was there a diagnosis in the records you provided to the AME, or not? If there was, why do you need to pull your MIB file to see if there's a record?
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Yes. Because the US medical record system is scattered, and I want to know if its even possible for this diagnosis to show up in another database or if its just all one big scare tactic.

So a doctor diagnosed you with a serious, disqualifying condition but never provided any treatment for it?
Click to expand...

Depends what you mean by disqualifying. If I put the diagnosis down, the FAA would defer it, and I would likely need to go through the HIMS program. And you are correct, doctor did not provide any treatment.
 
bbchien said:
So, to "boeing": Say you nonreport....and within one cycle you do and you obtain what is necessary to get vetted. At that point the Federal Med. Officer still has the authority to warn, slap yiour wirsts and say (ivia certified mail), "sin no more.

Now look up Ron Chrisman. Lie and omit several times, and that doesn't happen any more.
www.pilotsofamerica.com

First of 4 Pilots indicted for lying on Medical is Sentenced.

GREGORY JAMES CHRISMAN was sentenced 09/15/2020 to two years probation, lost his pilot certificates and it's unemployed. Chrisman previously worked as a commercial pilot, and this prosecution arises from false statements that Chrisman made on medical certifications submitted to the Federal...
www.pilotsofamerica.com www.pilotsofamerica.com
the alleged HIMS AME on this this case is no more on "the list", BTW.

www.ktvu.com

2 Bay Area pilots indicted on charges of lying on medical forms

SAN FRANCISCO (BCN) Four pilots, including two from the Bay Area, have been indicted by a U.S. grand jury in San Francisco on charges of making false statements to the Federal Aviation Administration about their medical conditions.
www.ktvu.com www.ktvu.com

Don't be a fool.
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Curious- how would you address a "diagnosis" that was incorrectly put in your chart by a physician? You and I both know we physicians (and lets not even start on PA, NPs) will often list a presumptive diagnosis to get a lab or imaging study approved. There isn't a way on Medexpress to put "this idiot Dr said I had [insert BS ICD10 code here] and I don't".
 
What you do is go to the next highest diagnostic authority and get that ruled in or ruled out. And advise. ....Before the MedX goes live.
 
boeing said:
My apologies. If I put my diagnosis down, there is a very good chance it will be deferred, and I will need to see a HIMS psychiatrist to prove that I do not have this condition.

To better explain the situation, I'm going to create a completely fake example as to not reveal details. I went to the doctor and told him I was having trouble focusing. Doctor diagnoses me with mild adhd after asking me a couple of questions. We all know how willy nilly doctors can be with diagnoses (I didn't know I wanted to be a pilot at the time, so I didn't push back). I tell this to my hims ame, and of course, he's like wtf, asked me if I ever had a history or adhd, am i on medication, if there were personal reasons why I was having trouble focusing, and some other personal questions, and was like yeah you do not have adhd buddy, do not disclose this...
Click to expand...
OK, understood. Unfortunately, as you probably already know, the hoops you're going to have to jump through are probably slightly less as burdensome as a DUI case. That being the case, I completely understand why you would want to take the AME's advice and not mention the diagnosis. Still, if it was me, I would disclose and sort through it. Yes, it will be expensive and time consuming, but you will come through the process with nothing hanging over your head. Some people have to work harder than others to be successful in their chosen profession.

If you're concerned that you may not be successful getting a SI then maybe professional pilot career won't work out for you. If that's the case and you still want to pursue flying as a hobby, go Sport Pilot and don't look back.

While replying I see Dr. Chien weighed in again, it sounds like there may be one other opportunity for you rule out the first diagnosis and move on.

Best of luck and Blue Skies!
 
Realistically, if you are convinced that your medical history is not a concern, and if you are correct in that assumption, then in the interest of long-term compliance with the regulations, going through the hoops to prove your assumption is probably worth the cost in time and money, as it's possible that it's not a lot of either. We don't know what that medical history is, and don't really need to in order to answer your question of, "What would you do?"
 
Boeing said:
What would you do in this situation?

- Doctor loosely diagnosed me with something, which I believe is an official diagnosis on my record
- Paid a senior HIMS AME (who is also a pilot) for advice on how to proceed
- Goal is to become airline pilot, looking to get class 1 medical for first time
- Senior HIMS AME reviewed my files, I told him the full truth, and the AME asked me a bunch of follow up questions
- At the end, HIMS AME STRONGLY urged me to not report the diagnosis, said you are a perfectly healthy person, never bring this up again
Click to expand...
The problem is, if you get caught, YOU get caught.

“But, Mr. FAA, my AME told me not to report this.”

“Mr. AME, is this true?”

“Nope.”

And you are busted.
 
boeing said:
I went to the doctor and told him I was having trouble focusing. Doctor diagnoses me with mild adhd after asking me a couple of questions. We all know how willy nilly doctors can be with diagnoses (I didn't know I wanted to be a pilot at the time, so I didn't push back).
Click to expand...
So in other words you went to the doc for study pills and got exactly what you were hoping for, and now it’s a problem…
 
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