Hey Where's Ravioli?

And then, some of us work well OVER 40, though our pay doesn't necessarily reflect it. (It's called a salary.) It's better than not having a job though, that's for sure.
 
azure said:
And then, some of us work well OVER 40, though our pay doesn't necessarily reflect it. (It's called a salary.) It's better than not having a job though, that's for sure.
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True that. It's disgusting how employers use the salary con to not pay people what they deserve. Then they wonder why employees have no loyalty to the company. I really wonder what they teach in those management seminars.
 
Paulie said:
True that. It's disgusting how employers use the salary con to not pay people what they deserve. Then they wonder why employees have no loyalty to the company. I really wonder what they teach in those management seminars.
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Agree. As an hourly guy, I usually make several thousand dollars more per year than my salaried boss. As a senior guy in my position, I don't see much incentive to shoot for the next rung on the ladder.
 
Paulie said:
True that. It's disgusting how employers use the salary con to not pay people what they deserve. Then they wonder why employees have no loyalty to the company. I really wonder what they teach in those management seminars.
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In academia, salary is the rule rather than the exception. Professors are never paid by the hour.* The upside to that is supposed to be self-governance and tenure, but some professorships don't carry the possibility of tenure.

*Adjunct professors are usually paid by the class or by the credit hour, which usually works out to be MUCH WORSE than a full-time salary.
 
flhrci said:
People less fortunate than yourself sometimes have to trade work for cash, otherwise known as a job, to survive. :)
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I had to cancel 3 days of flying last week due to wind conditions. Still hourly and I still get 40 hours a week. Best of both worlds?
 
Personally, I’m very glad I get paid according to the results I achieve through a salary rather than according to the time I put in (eg hourly). I can outperform the bar by a lot on results while there is only so much I can do on time (an I say this as a salaried person who averages 55-65 hours a week)
 
Zeldman said:
What is this job thing so many talk about..??
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I don't have a clue. I went out to pasture in 2005 and am enjoying not seeing the time clock in the mornings. But unlike a good race horse I do not get introduced to enough fillies.
Please send a few to my corral. :D :devil:
 
azure said:
In academia, salary is the rule rather than the exception. Professors are never paid by the hour.* The upside to that is supposed to be self-governance and tenure, but some professorships don't carry the possibility of tenure.

*Adjunct professors are usually paid by the class or by the credit hour, which usually works out to be MUCH WORSE than a full-time salary.
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One more reason I have little interest in joining the academic world. Love teaching, love mentoring, but don't want to do it for some institution that reaps the profit (figuratively) and pays me very little.
 
azure said:
In academia, salary is the rule rather than the exception. Professors are never paid by the hour.* The upside to that is supposed to be self-governance and tenure, but some professorships don't carry the possibility of tenure.
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Tell the truth... in academia the pay is irrelevant because the true aim is to stay on the government teat as long as possible, while convincing young impressionable people that it is a noble aspiration.

I've always enjoyed the ******** of educators. "We don't get paid enough."

la la la

We work 3/4 of the year for our salaries and pensions.

You have know idea how much time goes in to the lesson planning for my 11th year teaching geometry. [I know, that damn Pythagoras keeps revising his theorem]

American History... wow... the dates change so often.

That damn periodic table of the elements is so periodic.

Now, if you're teaching "social studies" you bit off more than you can chew. Tracking what is or isn't a protected class is harder than calling the over/under on the Super Bowel.
 
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wsuffa said:
One more reason I have little interest in joining the academic world. Love teaching, love mentoring, but don't want to do it for some institution that reaps the profit (figuratively) and pays me very little.
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And in the case of private institutions, that reaping may not even be entirely figurative - though having sat through endless faculty meetings where university cash flow and expenses were discussed ad nauseam, I'm convinced that at least here, we aren't being shafted, it's just that overhead costs are huge.
 
Ravioli said:
Tell the truth... in academia the pay is irrelevant because the true aim is to stay on the government teat as long as possible, while convincing young impressionable people that it is a noble aspiration.

I've always enjoyed the ******** of educators. "We don't get paid enough."

la la la

We work 3/4 of the year for our salaries and pensions.

You have know idea how much time goes in to the lesson planning for my 11th year teaching geometry. [I know, that damn Pythagoras keeps revising his theorem]
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And you have "know" idea what you're talking about. At small private universities like the one I work for, that government teat provides not enough milk to keep the place running. Tuition and materials fees provide the vast majority of the money the university spends to maintain the facilities and pay our salaries.

That 3/4 or the year you're talking about is only face-to-face time. The other 1/4 is largely spent preparing for the 3/4 where we are actually interacting with students... or else trying to get some research done. Those lucky enough to have government grants are constantly writing proposals to get them renewed - and unless you have something solid to show for the time you've held the grant, you can forget about the renewal.

And some of us teach subjects that are active areas of research, like astronomy. Keeping my course up to date takes a significant chunk of prep time. Even when the material doesn't change, we keep learning more and more about what works best as far as teaching technique goes. Departments that don't keep up with education research tend to decline and the possibility of getting cut or absorbed is very real.

As others have said, if you want to become wealthy then academia is a bad career choice, unless of course you can find your way into the upper echelons of administration. I'd say THOSE salaries are the ones that are overblown. Lowly rank and file faculty make just enough to get by, in most cases. If you want to get rich, look for a position in industry.
 
azure said:
And in the case of private institutions, that reaping may not even be entirely figurative - though having sat through endless faculty meetings where university cash flow and expenses were discussed ad nauseam, I'm convinced that at least here, we aren't being shafted, it's just that overhead costs are huge.
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LIz,

If I may be so bold as to question academia and their motives, I'm of the impression they are corrupting education with the intent of favoring one political side. I say that based on comments from a friend who was Dean of the College of Science at one of the smaller western universities and thought I was very literate with a high school education of the fifties.

She and the provost got into some serious disagreements over his policies.

Back when I was young "College Prep" was the course most of my fellow high school friends they preferred. I, OTOH, wanted vocational training and took courses that prepared me to follow that path.

I have no regrets that I followed what I thought best for me at the time. Sure, I did not become a highly paid corporate executive but in retrospective I was reasonably successful in life sans the sheepskin.

Does one need that piece of paper to be a successful businessman? I think not. My former employer built his business based on trust and honesty. He thrived while doing so and his business became one of the most respected aircraft maintenance shops in Michigan. I was honored when he and I had lunch together and he asked me to come work at his shop.

Degrees may seem impressive on resumes but are not as important as hands on experience in some cases.
 
azure said:
And you have "know" idea what you're talking about. At small private universities like the one I work for, that government teat provides not enough milk to keep the place running. Tuition and materials fees provide the vast majority of the money the university spends to maintain the facilities and pay our salaries.
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In fairness, if your school is like most, some very large percentage of the tuition and fees is paid using government grants and loans that wouldn't be made if they weren't subsidized and guaranteed by the government.
 
azure said:
And you have "know" idea what you're talking about. At small private universities like the one I work for, that government teat provides not enough milk to keep the place running. Tuition and materials fees provide the vast majority of the money the university spends to maintain the facilities and pay our salaries.
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This.

Some private institutions are fortunate enough to have large endowments or holdings (one has a very large investment portfolio, another that I know of owns a huge amount of valuable real estate worth more than the rest of the university), some have wealthy alumni donors, and large research universities have patents and IP that generates royalties. Even for those, the faculty is underpaid. Unless, of course, you're a large school footbalł or basketball coach that draws high revenue for the athletic programs.
It's left me jaded enough that I find other ways to help students rather than get on the merry-go-round.
 
I'm very lucky to get paid overtime even though I'm salaried. They can expect me to work extra for free, but fortunately the program I'm on pays overtime as long as I work 8 hours extra in a week (so 47 hours in a week gets me no overtime but 48 hours gets me 8 hours overtime). It's just straight time, not time and a half, but it's better than working for free.
 
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