You are right. Have to keep the smoke inside the wires. I just last weekend gave my A&P over $1000 of a $3300 annual bill just to keep that dang smoke inside the wires.
Swap aluminum for copper?
Help with electricity
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Swap aluminum for copper?
But the steel ball isn't doing any work, it is just pushing against the end. In order for that ball to do any work, it will have to move. In order to maintain the pressure in the tube, the balls behind it will have to move as well. The steel ball analogy is the same as water.
alfadog
Final Approach
No, pull the panel apart looking for some smell that escaped from some wire. The smoke being not far behind. Turned out to be in some add-on wing lights that were miswired back of the panel. Pulled the panel, scrapped the ADF, LORAN, and misc., rearranged the avionics and fabbed blanks, repaint a bit, rewired the PTT switches through the yoke instead of around, fix the guts of trim switch. Prolly 20 hours on that crap. All good.
EppyGA
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The secret to electricity (according to an EE I used to work with) is smoke. If you have a piece of equipment or a wire or anything electrical, and the smoke gets out, it won't work anymore
Covered in Post #14
Piloto
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+5 Excellent example of current flow. Also if current flow was related to mass flow there would be a high degree of signal attenuation (to the square of the frequency) in a wire with the frequency increase of square pulses applied to a straight conductor. This would be due to the inertia of the mass flow trying to reverse direction at close to the speed of light. This attenuation effect has not been observed.
José
EppyGA
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Is it time to move on to ELI the ICE man yet?
redtail
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Hey, maybe I was taught wrong in my high school electrical shop classes in Voc/Tech and my electronic classes in DeVry... but that's what I was taught.
Wiki: was taught the same theory
Electric current is a flow of electric charge through a medium. This charge is typically carried by moving electrons in a conductor such as wire.
edit: I could have gone deeper and more technical but the OP wanted a simple explanation not a science course in nuclear theory!
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alfadog
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alfadog
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Hey, maybe I was taught wrong in my high school electrical shop classes in Voc/Tech and my electronic classes in DeVry... but that's what I was taught.
Wiki: was taught the same theory
Electric current is a flow of electric charge through a medium. This charge is typically carried by moving electrons in a conductor such as wire.
It is a flow.
EppyGA
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Hey, maybe I was taught wrong in my high school electrical shop classes in Voc/Tech and my electronic classes in DeVry... but that's what I was taught.
Wiki: was taught the same theory
Electric current is a flow of electric charge through a medium. This charge is typically carried by moving electrons in a conductor such as wire.
The alternate theory is that since the energy (voltage) is exciting electrons in the valance shell causing them to travel to a hole in another valence shell then you can also say that the hole left by that electron is moving in the opposite direction.
redtail
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I'm well aware of that, thank you
but as I said, the OP wanted a simple explanation not a science class
been studying this stuff since I was 8 or 9 years old and I know that I don't know it all! Thanks for the nuclear theory
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EppyGA
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I'm well aware of that, thank you
but as I said, the OP wanted a simple explanation not a science class
OP's don't always get what they ask for!
Actually Henning's early explanation was very good.
alfadog
Final Approach
The messes that end up behind panels...
You should have seen the boxes of stuff that came out of my plane when I did the panel.3 generations of dead avionics and harnesses; all they ever did was pull the stuff that took up panel real estate.
My plane weighed in 200lbs lighter on the reweigh than the old W&B.
EppyGA
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The messes that end up behind panels...
3 generations of dead avionics and harnesses; all they ever did was pull the stuff that took up panel real estate.
I get a headache when I look up under mine.
Captain
Final Approach
More proof there isn't any 'mass transfer' that I just thought of:
Using the worlds most accurate scale you'll find a fully charged battery weighs the same as a fully discharged battery.
Using the worlds most accurate scale you'll find a fully charged battery weighs the same as a fully discharged battery.
Let'sgoflying!
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You won't believe the number of folks I have fooled when I am hauling an O2 tank that has just been filled "Man these are heavy when they refill them, puff, grunt"
"Oh, wow take a break then"
Captain
Final Approach
Actually, the O2 tank does weigh more filled than empty...just not much.
EppyGA
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So when the O2 tank is empty is there a vacuum in it. :wink2:
Captain
Final Approach
Ahhh, nice catch. But the point remains. An O2 tank with MSL pressure weighs more than one with a vacum and an O2 tank with 1,000 PSI weighs more than both.
Let'sgoflying!
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You're right. And next time I have a full 330cuft bottle and an empty one, I will allow you to attempt to tell me which is full.
If you're wrong, I get.....
I get a headache when I look up under mine.
Mine is now very neat and pretty and the G-500 has cables long enough that it comes out and can be laid on the yoke to unplug and plug where you can see clearly what's going on.
Makes it really nice to get to the P-stat system and back up instruments as well as the back of the stack too having that big old hole there.
alfadog
Final Approach
Actually, all those tanks weigh the exact same.
And would weigh the same if you filled them with water or with lead.
The battery thing you mention is proof of nothing; there are the same number of electrons in the battery charged or discharged. They are just in different locations within the battery.
alfadog
Final Approach
Mine is now very neat and pretty and the G-500 has cables long enough that it comes out and can be laid on the yoke to unplug and plug where you can see clearly what's going on.
I have seen the pix of your 310D. Very nice panel. Wish I had the money but if I did I doubt I would "invest" it in my Arrow panel.
redtail
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you can't produce a hole unless something moves (electron) from it's current location to another! So what's REALLY flowing, holes or electrons? and Voltage is the force that starts that motion!
Not sure I would invest in an Arrow panel either, the plane doesn't have the capabilities for me to make good use of it. Where it really comes in nice is low level and nasty night nav and that's not where I'd be in an Arrow nor would I be in IMC.
It's both, you need both push and draw.
redtail
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which produced the other? did the push leave a vacuum or did the vacuum cause the push?
redtail
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I say the push (motion of electrons) causes the vacuum (hole).
Without the flow or initial movement of the electron (due to the potential force) voltage, there would be NO vacuum (hole) in the first place!
and that's my final answer
Without the flow or initial movement of the electron (due to the potential force) voltage, there would be NO vacuum (hole) in the first place!
and that's my final answer
which produced the other? did the push leave a vacuum or did the vacuum cause the push?
It depends which you started first, the energy pump or the load.
redtail
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ok
Serious, without either you have no circuit. Without the generator the load sits empty; without the load the circuit is charged with potential but has no where to go, either way the electric meter reads '0' kW. Where ever you complete the dynamic whether it is at the load or supply will determine the first action which will be followed by the other at a nearly unmeasurable speed. With AC they can happen simultaneously though...
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redtail
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agreed but we were talking about what current IS. someone tried to prove me wrong with regard to THE FLOW OF ELECTRONS!
redtail
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Let me put it another way. When I go to work and close the 13KV high tension circuit breakers, take a current reading on the ammeters, I'm reading a flow. That flow is the movement of electrons through the meter (current), not the movement of "holes"
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Agreed, the question is, do you keep measuring the same electrons over and over jackhammering or is there actual 'flow'?
redtail
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Agreed, the question is, do you keep measuring the same electrons over and over jackhammering or is there actual 'flow'?
flow. electrons moving from atom to atom
redtail
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alternating direction of travel at 60HZ or 60 cycles per second (USA)
EppyGA
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Now we're having fun!
So, we've determined that we are counting the same electrons but rather than jack hammering, they are jumping back and forth.
So, in your 13kV line pulsing 60 times a second and carrying 1000A, how many electrons are getting counted over and over in the meter and how far do they travel?