Help out an 11 year old girl with aviation aspirations?

At what point are all the common sense military members going to jump ship and do the correct thing and ditch the bizarre commands from idiot supervisors.:idea:.....;)
Never happen. They'll load you and me on the train if told to do so.
 
yeah.... murphy asked for CAP idiots.. And I delivered... ma'am..

I didn't ask for anything other than my original question qbout budgets. And as our esteemed Management pointed out, there is stupidity in aviation as well as everywhere else.

As for not following stupid orders - no one in the military is going to invoke the Unlawful Order option for something that does not jeopardize life or national security.
 
From the 11 year old's dad:
"It is Wisconsin Wing Squadron 002. As I understand it, the money doesn't get the activities off the ground but helps keep the kids involved by defraying some of the cost of getting them there. I've been told it also helps to afford drill team uniforms and such. The Air Force and the Wisconsin Wing do have budgets for these activities, but we have seen monetary outlays from cadets and families that can make it very difficult to send them. Fundraising is part of how the units pay for their activities."

Thanks for the update. I have no contact/involvement with CAP cadets except very peripherally - I have 3 that are volunteers in my team at the museum, and I didn't even know they were in CAP until one of the parents told me. I knew there were dues and such but not aware that the budgets didn't cover everything.
 
5 hours sel, 5 glider flights if they can find a cap glider op. For the hours they put in marching it ain't much.

That's the required introduction. If they choose, they can use CAP resources (CFIs and airplanes) for instruction on the condition they pay their own way.
 
Equating CAP cadets with the Hitler Youth movement is the most offensive comparison imaginable. CAP is a choice unlike the HJ in Germany in the 1930s. From wikipedia

"By December 1936, HJ membership stood at just over five million. That same month, HJ membership became mandatory for Aryans, under the Gesetz ĂĽber die Hitlerjugend law. This legal obligation was re-affirmed in 1939 with the Jugenddienstpflicht and HJ membership was required even when it was opposed by the member's parents. Massaquoi claims,[14] though, that the war did not allow the law to go very far. From then on, most of Germany's teenagers belonged to the HJ. By 1940, it had eight million members. Later war figures are difficult to calculate, since massive conscription efforts and a general call-up of boys as young as 10 years old meant that virtually every young male in Germany was, in some way, connected to the HJ. Only about 10 to 20% were able to avoid joining.[15]"

Dave, Ben, et al - you don't like CAP, fine. Your privilege & right. But the kids in CAP, JROTC, SeaScouts (Navy version) and similar join by choice. Not peer pressure, and hopefully not parental pressure.

Do some/many of them take it too seriously (Oshkosh, air shows, etc)? Sure - but think about it. Unless you have a car or access to a car you're dependent on the parents, everyone tells you what to do, and so on. All of a sudden CAP (JROTC, etc) tells you that you're in charge of handing out food & water at the floods/fires in Colorado last year. (There's always senior members nearby in the background) Responsibility - what a concept.

It's really not much different than a high school sports team. Less applause & adulation, of course.
 
CAP mostly sucks and while some kids get a lot out of it, being marched around by army wannabes isn't my idea of a good use of a kids time.
 
CAP mostly sucks and while some kids get a lot out of it, being marched around by army wannabes isn't my idea of a good use of a kids time.

Then don't participate. Don't let your kids participate if you feel like being an overbearing prick.

I'm a senior member in a composite squadron, and these kids get quite a bit more than marching around. Last week, we had them designing balloon rockets, and they learned a ton -- mainly about thrust per weight (they all built plenty of thrust, but most of the designs were excessively heavy -- and two blew up on the pad). Some form of aerospace education is done monthly, and the senior officer in charge is quite good. The aerospace room has quite a lot of models in it, including the biggest E6-B I've ever seen. That room is used exclusively by the CAP, mostly for the cadets.

The excessive generalization is not a sign of intellect, or even relevance. I'm sure you can find a really bad squadron if you look. But there are definitely some gems. The cadets do march around a bit much for my taste -- I wouldn't have gone for it at that age, for that reason, and I suspect my son won't either when he gets old enough (but that's his choice). Some people like that stuff, and it really does you no damage for them to do so.
 
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Equating CAP cadets with the Hitler Youth movement is the most offensive comparison imaginable. CAP is a choice unlike the HJ in Germany in the 1930s. From wikipedia

"By December 1936, HJ membership stood at just over five million. That same month, HJ membership became mandatory for Aryans, under the Gesetz ĂĽber die Hitlerjugend law. This legal obligation was re-affirmed in 1939 with the Jugenddienstpflicht and HJ membership was required even when it was opposed by the member's parents. Massaquoi claims,[14] though, that the war did not allow the law to go very far. From then on, most of Germany's teenagers belonged to the HJ. By 1940, it had eight million members. Later war figures are difficult to calculate, since massive conscription efforts and a general call-up of boys as young as 10 years old meant that virtually every young male in Germany was, in some way, connected to the HJ. Only about 10 to 20% were able to avoid joining.[15]"

Dave, Ben, et al - you don't like CAP, fine. Your privilege & right. But the kids in CAP, JROTC, SeaScouts (Navy version) and similar join by choice. Not peer pressure, and hopefully not parental pressure.

Do some/many of them take it too seriously (Oshkosh, air shows, etc)? Sure - but think about it. Unless you have a car or access to a car you're dependent on the parents, everyone tells you what to do, and so on. All of a sudden CAP (JROTC, etc) tells you that you're in charge of handing out food & water at the floods/fires in Colorado last year. (There's always senior members nearby in the background) Responsibility - what a concept.

It's really not much different than a high school sports team. Less applause & adulation, of course.

Something fishy there, my dad was never a member.
 
Then don't participate. Don't let your kids participate if you feel like being an overbearing prick.

I'm a senior member in a composite squadron, and these kids get quite a bit more than marching around. Last week, we had them designing balloon rockets, and they learned a ton -- mainly about thrust per weight (they all built plenty of thrust, but most of the designs were excessively heavy -- and two blew up on the pad). Some form of aerospace education is done monthly, and the senior officer in charge is quite good. The aerospace room has quite a lot of models in it, including the biggest E6-B I've ever seen. That room is used exclusively by the CAP, mostly for the cadets.

The excessive generalization is not a sign of intellect, or even relevance. I'm sure you can find a really bad squadron if you look. But there are definitely some gems. The cadets do march around a bit much for my taste -- I wouldn't have gone for it at that age, for that reason, and I suspect my son won't either when he gets old enough (but that's his choice). Some people like that stuff, and it really does you no damage for them to do so.

You've obviously never been told by one the little grubs you can't adjust your chair to keep in the shade of an airplanes wing because it takes you over the 500' airshow line. They didn't know how to handle it when I climbed up the front entrance of the plane and popped my head out the back (past the 500' line) it was kinda funny watching them hut hut hut all around trying to figure out how to keep me from doing that. They really got riled up when I climbed on top of the plane and sat on the tail.
 
You've obviously never been told by one the little grubs you can't adjust your chair to keep in the shade of an airplanes wing because it takes you over the 500' airshow line. They didn't know how to handle it when I climbed up the front entrance of the plane and popped my head out the back (past the 500' line) it was kinda funny watching them hut hut hut all around trying to figure out how to keep me from doing that. They really got riled up when I climbed on top of the plane and sat on the tail.


David and I, and I bet ALOT of others have seen the BAD side of" out of control" cadets...

I applaud the CAP in trying to instill responsibility in the youth of America but their training concept is flawed......

The proper way for Cadets to act is when confronted with unique situations like David explained or if you search for some of my experiences with those little hitlers you will see a common denominator.

Instead of the cadets going and getting a senior member, they impart their own actions and it always seems to be the same reaction, whether they are in Rexburg Idaho or Oshkosh Wisconsin or an airshow in Texas.

The shear fact they behave the same nationwide leads me to believe it is from poor training and some bizarre protocol taught to them in the Cadet program..... IMHO...
 
Respect mah authoritah

:rofl:...:lol:....:wink2:...

I hope one day David and I end up at an airshow together where those little nazi's are patroling the flightline... We could make a youtube video that would get 10 million hits and a billion laughs..:D
 
Yeah, but we won't see any of the whiny people about the organization step up and find enough people to handle flight line duty at any of the smaller air shows that rely on CAP cadets, either.

Bitching without action is just useless drivel. And attacking kids learning to volunteer in their community is really beyond lame.
 
..... And attacking kids learning to volunteer in their community is really beyond lame.

Nate...........It ain't the kids that are the problem..... It is the
adults" who condition the kids to think and act this way....:mad2:
 
The shear fact they behave the same nationwide leads me to believe it is from poor training and some bizarre protocol taught to them in the Cadet program..... IMHO...

I blame the Air Force.

Another common them with the CAP nationwide is that whenever you question some bizarre policy they have or way they do business, they instantly say it is because of 'Air Force policy'.
 
Yeah, but we won't see any of the whiny people about the organization step up and find enough people to handle flight line duty at any of the smaller air shows that rely on CAP cadets, either.

Bitching without action is just useless drivel. And attacking kids learning to volunteer in their community is really beyond lame.

Is it volunteering in a community or stroking their own egos? Most of the kids I've met just like telling people what to do.
 
Is it volunteering in a community or stroking their own egos? Most of the kids I've met just like telling people what to do.

I don't think the CAP cadets are the kids in this thread.

There are some truly out of hand, wild generalizations going on here.
 
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