help narrow down possible aircraft

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
I have a friend who wants to get flying and needs a 2plc a/c (I think, with 125hp or greater) with which to complete ifr training. He has listed these a/c:
Cessna 150/152 (especially the Sparrowhawk)
Grumman AA14? (the two seater)
Beech Skipper
Piper 140
Piper Tomahawk
Rockwell (two seater)

What others??
Thanks
DT
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I have a friend who wants to get flying and needs a 2plc a/c (I think, with 125hp or greater) with which to complete ifr training. He has listed these a/c:
Cessna 150/152 (especially the Sparrowhawk)
Grumman AA14? (the two seater)
Beech Skipper
Piper 140
Piper Tomahawk
Rockwell (two seater)

What others??
Thanks
DT
Click to expand...

the 150 is a 100 horse, the 152 may be a 108 horse.

there are a couple of plastic jobs now too
 
I'd truly suggest the Zlin. But that's 200 h.p. Either something heavier or funner.
 
Dave,

The Grumman two seat aircraft models AA1, -A & -B came from the factory with Lycoming O235s rated at 108HP. The Grumman AA1C came from the factory with a Lycoming O235 rated at 115HP.

Via STC these aircraft can be fitted with an O235 rated at 125HP. Another STC allows them to be fitted with a Lycoming O320 rated at 150HP.

I've seen a number of Grumman two seaters advertised with these mods. I used to fly an AA1B with the 125HP mod and I think it is the best compromise of increased HP, fuel burn and weight. Though I've never flown a 150HP 2 seat Grumman and I hear they climb like the proverbial bat out of he!! and are very quick.

I'm curious as to the requirement for a 2 seat 150HP aircraft.

Note that in the Grumman line up the original AA5 Traveler has four seats and a 150HP engine (stock, note that there is a very popular 160HP STC for this aircraft which many owners have employed). Initial purchase price will be about $10K (maybe $15K) more than a 2 seat Grumman but the operating expenses will not be that much more.

Len
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I have a friend who wants to get flying and needs a 2plc a/c (I think, with 125hp or greater) with which to complete ifr training. He has listed these a/c:
Cessna 150/152 (especially the Sparrowhawk)
Grumman AA14? (the two seater)
Beech Skipper
Piper 140
Piper Tomahawk
Rockwell (two seater)

What others??
Thanks
DT
Click to expand...

Why 2 seats? Quite often a two plus costs very little more to own and operate and offers lots more flexibility. Also what's with the 125 HP requirement. The majority of 2 seat trainers are below that. C-150=100hp, C-152=110hp etc. And if a two seater is what he really wants/needs, there are quite a few taildraggers available as well.
 
Dave;

There was in the 1970s a two seater that was I do believe and please correct me if I am wroing. It was a two seat tandem trainer with a 150 0-320. It looked like a small BT 13 WWII trainer. I cannot remember the name of it Varga? or somthing clos to that. It was not in production very long but they were fun to fly.

Maybe a good stock PA140 or a Traveler as Lenny above mentions is the way to go. I did know that the C 150 had at one time an STC for a 0-320 150 for it and that would "Climb" . nothing like extra horsepower.

John
 
To start with, none of the listed planes with stock engines other than the 140 Cherokee is 125HP, and pretty much all the rest are near max gross with full fuel and two FAA "average" people. Also, while there are 125 HP STC's for the 150/152 and AA-1-series available from Air Mods NW, none of those provide max gross weight increases, so while you get better takeoff/climb performance and a bit more speed, you don't get any extra payload.

Therefore, the question in my mind is what are his requirements for payload, range, speed, etc. Is he operating at a high elevation airport? It may be that a low-end 4-place will better fill his needs, or maybe just a 2-seater with a big engine.
 
Of those choices, the Cherokee 140 or the Skipper would likely be the better choices.

The Beech will be bigger ... but hence slower. Beech parts have a reputation for being a bit "dear", but what isn't in aviation.

Would be hard to go wrong with a good Cherokee 140. Lots of them around, cheap to maintain (aviation cheap, that is), easy to fly. With some mods (wingtips, votex generators, gap seals, ala Art Matson) can get a significant improvment in performance. So long as he doesn't want to get 4 butts off the ground with full fuel ....

If your friend doesn't have his PP yet, try and talk him out of buying the plane he'll do his primary training in. Learning to fly is quite enough to bite off at once ... he can learn to be an owner later. Way to many horror stories of folks that tried to learn both at the same time and ended up doing neither.

IMHO
YMMV
Brett

Let'sgoflying! said:
I have a friend who wants to get flying and needs a 2plc a/c (I think, with 125hp or greater) with which to complete ifr training. He has listed these a/c:
Cessna 150/152 (especially the Sparrowhawk)
Grumman AA14? (the two seater)
Beech Skipper
Piper 140
Piper Tomahawk
Rockwell (two seater)

What others??
Thanks
DT
Click to expand...
 
mgkdrgn said:
Of those choices, the Cherokee 140 or the Skipper would likely be the better choices.

The Beech will be bigger ... but hence slower. Beech parts have a reputation for being a bit "dear", but what isn't in aviation.

Would be hard to go wrong with a good Cherokee 140. Lots of them around, cheap to maintain (aviation cheap, that is), easy to fly. With some mods (wingtips, votex generators, gap seals, ala Art Matson) can get a significant improvment in performance. So long as he doesn't want to get 4 butts off the ground with full fuel ....

If your friend doesn't have his PP yet, try and talk him out of buying the plane he'll do his primary training in. Learning to fly is quite enough to bite off at once ... he can learn to be an owner later. Way to many horror stories of folks that tried to learn both at the same time and ended up doing neither.

IMHO
YMMV
Brett
Click to expand...

I disagree as there is a lot of us who had great experiance being an owner and being a student PPL. When I started I not only owned my own but was a partner in another. Now over 6 yrs later I still own both and have another that is a project. Like anything else you have to go into ownership with your eyes open.
 
Two seater with power? How about the new Symphony 160? I haven't flown one, but did get to sit in one at Sun n Fun in April. 160 hp in a two seater should make for some good performance. Plus, it's a stick...
 
The two seats is not a limitation, but an option - sorry.
I really don't think it can be done for 20K. I think you need about double that to do what he wants. Just kind of a quick post without much thought as he was shooting ideas at me, I will forward your ideas thanks.
 
mgkdrgn said:
Of those choices, the Cherokee 140 or the Skipper would likely be the better choices. The Beech will be bigger ... but hence slower.
Click to expand...
I think you're confusing the 2-seat, O-235 engined Model 77 Skipper (so similar to the Tomahawk as to be often confused at a distance) with the Beech Model 19 Musketeer Sport, which, like the 140 Cherokee, has a Lycoming O-320 engine, although a 150 HP version rather than the derated 140 HP version in the Piper.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
The two seats is not a limitation, but an option - sorry.
I really don't think it can be done for 20K.
Click to expand...
IFR training equipment in a plane for under $20K? Not easy to find, but possible with a Grumman AA-1x, although not likely with an uprated engine. I believe C-150/152's with that equipment tend to be in the mid-20's.

BTW, speaking as an instrument instructor, since this plane is for IFR training, I don't think any of the tandem-seat planes mentioned would be suitable. I can't see teaching instruments effectively other than side-by-side. While the military does it, they do a lot of simulator work before they get in the aircraft.
 
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