Help me replace my tach. And MP/oil/fuel/pressure gauges.

Deelee

Deelee

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Deelee
6PC's thread about helping him replace his tach only got me thinking of something we are planning to do with our panel. Since this is different from his post, I figured I would be a good internet citizen and start a separate thread with my own questions.

We have two needs - one is to install an engine monitor and two is to hopefully replace the old tach and MP gauges that are positioned waaaaaaaaay down there where they are hard to see when flying with an iPad mounted on a yoke. We are looking to get an all-in-one instrument that will also replace the fuel gauges and oil temp/pressure gauges. Basically clean up the panel to get rid of all those analog relics north of the equator in our Arrow.

I think there is room for a fairly large, portrait-oriented display on the left side of the panel. We have a blank and a clock that was created before Big Ben that needs to go (that will be replaced by a Davtron or some other digital timepiece produced after the industrial revoloution in a blank to the right side of the panel).

It looks like JPI makes a pretty nice one in the EDM900, but it doesn't look like it is portrait-mountable. Maybe two round-style gauges would work? Here's a pic of the panel expertly annotated to show what I'm thinking. Any ideas would be great. Spend all of my money. Don't let cost hold you back in your suggestions.

85R_Panel_Mod1.jpg
 
The EDM900 will mount and display vertically.

Also, if your transponder or GPS display time, you can ditch the clock.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
The EDM900 will mount and display vertically.

Also, if your transponder or GPS display time, you can ditch the clock.
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Awesome, thanks! That may be the way we go, then. Good point about the GPS and/or transponder replacing the clock. Even if they don't there is a panel blank on the right side that is crying out for some sort of gauge.
 
900 is basically 830 with expensive probes, earlier versions had a ton of problems. They were addressed with firmware updates. I would get some pireps on the 900 before spending the money. My 830 has been flawless and like you I don’t have space for 930.

Bw in my previous setup my 830 (think that’s same size as 900) was in that bottom left hole mounted horizontally. Right now it’s mounted where your TT is vertically.
 
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Yeah, I don't think I can fit the 930, unless I put it on the other side of the panel where there is some room. But I think I want the information over on the left where it will be more in the scan.

I'll check out the 830, too. I found a pirep thread on PoA where the recommendation on the 900 is a thumbs-down... I will keep looking. Too bad. I like the comprehensive monitors it offers and seems to fit the bill in terms of being able to replace all the engine instrumentation in one go. But if it doesn't work well, what's the point?
 
EI CGR-30P? Would fit in the 3 1/8" hole just fine.
 
I would get the CGR-30P and stick it up inline with the primary flight instruments.

That empty hole on the left or move something to it and put the CGR to the right of the Aspen, like where that King CDI is.

Then put the engine data download USB in the empty hole where the tachometer was and add a USB charger or something.
 
I"m keeping an eye on this thread because I am contemplating the same thing. I could not only replace my Tach and MP gauge and all of my engine instruments, but I could also replace the EDM700, the Shadin Fuel Gauge and the clock that has never worked with something like and EDM 900 or 930. Then my biggest problem would be what to do with all the holes and empty spaces. I might have to break down and do a whole new panel, but if I did that then I'd be looking at a G500 etc, etc...
 
mondtster said:
Maybe look at the GI275?
Click to expand...

Is a contender for sure. I think the Garmin has bluetooth download of engine data, which is nice. The downside to the GI is that it looks small... but maybe that's ok since wouldn't need anything too prominent except RPM and MP when adjusting power settings. Fuel levels, too... As long as MP and RPM are readable as part of a quick scan, this one is in the mix.

farmrjohn said:
EI CGR-30P
Click to expand...

Interesting. I hadn't looked at these. I like the form factor, but from first glance it doesn't look like we could get rid of the MP gauge with this one.
 
Deelee said:
IInteresting. I hadn't looked at these. I like the form factor, but from first glance it doesn't look like we could get rid of the MP gauge with this one.
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It will

can look at having two displays rather than one.

If you have the money, DO NOT reuse junky resistive floats fuel quantity transmitters. Buy new.

upload_2020-12-22_11-39-23.png
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bnt83 said:
It will

can look at having two displays rather than one.
Click to expand...

Yep and Yep. I didn't look hard enough. I like the way that instrument is laid out... quick turn of the knob to get different data... thanks. Yeah that's a contender, too.
 
Deelee said:
Yep and Yep. I didn't look hard enough. I like the way that instrument is laid out... quick turn of the knob to get different data... thanks. Yeah that's a contender, too.
Click to expand...

FWIW, I have physically installed both JPI and EI. They are both good units. I installed the JPI in a customer's airplane and the CGR-30P in my Dad's airplane. Someday I hope my airplane will get a CGR-30P too.

The Garmin unit is dealer install only I think so not likely to ever go down that road for my personal airplane.
 
bnt83 said:
FWIW, I have physically installed both JPI and EI. They are both good units. I installed the JPI in a customer's airplane and the CGR-30P in my Dad's airplane. Someday I hope my airplane will get a CGR-30P too.

The Garmin unit is dealer install only I think so not likely to ever go down that road for my personal airplane.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That is worth a lot - you have personally installed and have experience with both units. The EI video I watched said about 15-20 hours for a full install. So about $3700 for the unit and $2000 for the install round up about $6000 overall? About right?

The JPI looks like it is about $4500 for the unit (4cyl/2 fuel tanks). Wonder if that is still about 20 hours of labor?

OR............. This is pretty nifty.... the combo -
CGR-30P Premium
CGR-30C Cluster Gauge

That runs about $5000.
 
bnt83 said:
can look at having two displays rather than one.
Click to expand...

Just watched the video of both instruments. I like that a lot. The annunciators are pretty nifty. Wonder if I could make one fit where our clock is and the other where the panel blank is next to the backup AI.
 
Deelee said:
Thanks! That is worth a lot - you have personally installed and have experience with both units. The EI video I watched said about 15-20 hours for a full install. So about $3700 for the unit and $2000 for the install round up about $6000 overall? About right?

The JPI looks like it is about $4500 for the unit (4cyl/2 fuel tanks). Wonder if that is still about 20 hours of labor?

OR............. This is pretty nifty.... the combo -
CGR-30P Premium
CGR-30C Cluster Gauge

That runs about $5000.
Click to expand...

Seems reasonable.

Dad wanted a separate fuel gauge so we used an aerospace logic and Cies transmitters. EI does sell their own flavor of quantity transmitters (tank floats) which I'd like to try. https://ciescorp.net/

JPI dos not sell these fuel quantity transmitters, you either buy new ones from Cies or OEM, or try to reuse the ones you have. Every time I have tried to reuse the transmitters in the tanks and hook up a new electronic instrument to them I have regretted it.

With Garmin's warranty policy being "contact your dealer" the service you can get from EI or JPI is a better deal IMHO.
 
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good to know. So get new transmitters while they are doing the install. Makes sense. the ones in our plane are probably pretty vintage.
 
bnt83 said:
I don't believe anything about the Garmin equipment does. The JPI and EI come with a preassembled harness.
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That will have some effect on install hours and labor cost. With a harness, it may even be able to be partially installed by the owner with oversight, saving even more labor.
 
George Mohr said:
EDM 900 is an excellent piece of kit.
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455 Bravo Uniform said:
That will have some effect on install hours and labor cost. With a harness, it may even be able to be partially installed by the owner with oversight, saving even more labor.
Click to expand...

I am starting to like that EDM900 more every time I look at it. Either that, or a dual EI setup which would cost more.
 
Deelee said:
EI setup which would cost more.
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With or without rebates?

Have a decent place to put the EDM? They are almost too big for some panels.
 

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bnt83 said:
With or without rebates?

Have a decent place to put the EDM? They are almost too big for some panels.
Click to expand...

With the warning light you can put them anywhere. Assuming you have normal 3” size MP/tach instruments next to each other; pull them and replace with JPI. I would pull all, in addition the OAT, CHT, EGT, oil temp and pressure, fuel gauges, amp and voltage if you have them. Might give you space for some other stuff.
 
Deelee said:
ooh good question. If I could get a deal on the dual EI setup that would be great.
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Seems like they do them at least twice a year but here is the last one

upload_2020-12-23_10-38-37.png


I'm curious if you can pick the right display parameters and actually have either screen back up the other. If the 30P screen fails can you get enough data on the 30C screen to be legal?

upload_2020-12-23_10-51-46.png
 
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I installed a jpi 730 in my plane, essentially an 830 after I added all the options. I did the install myself, I also installed a 930 in an older 182 while working in a friends shop. The 930 took 40 hours to install, granted it was my first install, but I was told that is pretty much what it takes. There are lots of components to remove, and lots of wires to run, it had just about every option. There is only a partial harness, any extras have to be added, but it’s no big deal. I really like my 730, I like it better than the EI displays.
I went the non-primary replacement for a couple reasons, one is cost, the other is that old mechanical instruments work, and they do it without electricity. If I lose my generator and or battery, I can still fly. Mechanical oil temp and pressure, mechanical tach and manifold, ammeter, all work with no juice. I like to keep it simple. Glass panels are all the rage, but I have seen more than one occasion where someone with Only glass panel was grounded until they could get an alternator flown in.
I know a guy who had two EI screens go black, he couldn’t fly while waiting for a new screen.
 
The GI 275 EIS has a GI 275 MFD counterpart that can display other EIS information (like leaning procedure) and CDI. I think a nice 2-step design would be to put a GI 275 EIS in the left corner now and later replace that CDI in the right corner with a GI 275 MFD.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
The EDM900 will mount and display vertically.

Also, if your transponder or GPS display time, you can ditch the clock.
Click to expand...
Can I have your clock when you remove it? My windup clock died, no parts for the Wakmann anymore. I like my windup clock!
 
murphey said:
Can I have your clock when you remove it? My windup clock died, no parts for the Wakmann anymore. I like my windup clock!
Click to expand...

If we get rid of it, you are first in line! (I kinda like it, too.... kind of retro and hey, it works lol)
 
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