Help me Pull the Trigger

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teethdoc

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Oct 3, 2012
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teethdoc
I found what I think may be the plane. I have 32h and plan to take my check ride the first of the year. I am looking for a plane to finish out my ppl, build some hours, and get my instrument license. I have 3 kids so will upgrade to a 6 seater in a few years. Here is what I've found (flew it this morning and it handled like any other 140.):

Late 60's pa-28 140/160. 4500TT 600SNEW engine installed in 2000. 8/10 paint and interior (both done in early 2003. IFR with Garmin 430. Wheel pants. Very well taken care of. The current owner has about $60k in the plane since 2000. Price $30k

Should I be all over this?
 
Sounds a little high, but the 430 probably helps some. Do a good pre-sale inspection. That was where I fell down and had to catch up on a lot deferred maintenance. Does it have the shotgun panel still or did he fix that? Having a standard six pack is better for instrument training, which I assume is next on your list.

Edit: just to qualify that, I did a pre-sale inspection, but the mechanic I had do it, did a lousy job and I had a $10,000+ first annual.
 
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Still has the shotgun. IFR is definately next on the list. Here is a pic of the panel:
140Panel.jpg
 
The '69 and up came with a standard six pack and a throttle quadrant. The 160 is nice, I only have 150 and the climb is pretty marginal on some hot summer days. Note that you have no right side brakes (mine doesn't either). Some CFI's don't like that, but you do have a hand brake they can use in a pinch. I got mine, when I had about 10 hours and it was great to finish my ticket in, but mine is not IFR and it is very hard to sell right now, so I am wishing I had stepped up for a better panel (I have about 285 hours now). They are great planes and fun to fly, though.
 
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There is nothing wrong with that panel for initial IFR. Many have done it. I see only one VOR CDI, but that's doable with the 430 for a Nav base.

Remember, in 7 years you'll need to upgrade to WAAS gps and ADSB-Out as a minimum.
 
Whoever flew it last doesn't do a shutdown checklist... Note Transponder. ;)
 
teethdoc said:
Late 60's pa-28 140/160. ... Price $30k
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Is it a 140 hp engine or a 160 hp engine? Or a 140 upgraded to a 160?

Price is really high for a 140. It's a little high for an upgraded 140.

Reasonably priced for a 160 hp engine with the 430....
 
bflynn said:
Is it a 140 hp engine or a 160 hp engine? Or a 140 upgraded to a 160?

Price is really high for a 140. It's a little high for an upgraded 140.

Reasonably priced for a 160 hp engine with the 430....
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It is a Cherokee 140, which comes with a 150 HP engine as standard, but there is an STC for 160 HP (swap the jugs for higher compressions), which this plane apparently has.

And going price for 140's seems to be about $25K. The 430 is worth something (maybe $2-3K?)
 
It's obviously your call, but my question is why a guy with three kids would be thinking about a plane with four seats. My fear is that you will want the extra seat in three months rather than three years. The buy/sell or trade cost is usually higher than people estimate, so I'd advise you to look for a six-seater, even if it's a fractional piece.

teethdoc said:
I found what I think may be the plane. I have 32h and plan to take my check ride the first of the year. I am looking for a plane to finish out my ppl, build some hours, and get my instrument license. I have 3 kids so will upgrade to a 6 seater in a few years. Here is what I've found (flew it this morning and it handled like any other 140.):

Late 60's pa-28 140/160. 4500TT 600SNEW engine installed in 2000. 8/10 paint and interior (both done in early 2003. IFR with Garmin 430. Wheel pants. Very well taken care of. The current owner has about $60k in the plane since 2000. Price $30k

Should I be all over this?
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John221us said:
It is a Cherokee 140, which comes with a 150 HP engine as standard, but there is an STC for 160 HP (swap the jugs for higher compressions), which this plane apparently has.
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Our partnership has a Warrior with the 160hp STC, it's a noticeable improvement and well worth having. The only down side is I don't think the 160hp motor can use mogas.

And going price for 140's seems to be about $25K. The 430 is worth something (maybe $2-3K?)
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If the 430 is IFR approved it would cost ~$10K to have it installed.

If the airplane flys straight (very important for IMC) and doesn't have significant corrosion then it's very suitable for a sole owner or partnership.
 
John221us said:
True, but it isn't WAAS, so it is probably about $5K, plus install, so maybe $8K and you never get that back on resale.
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Maybe not in direct funds, but you might sell the aircraft quicker because it is there.

when I'm previewing potential purchases, those with the GNS430 (or better) get a longer look. Those without I'm more likely to pass on.
 
Still searching. The owner would not budge on price and I want it down closer to $25k. I hope I'm being realistic. As for the 6 seater now, it will be about 3 times as expensive to by and more than double to own. 90% of my flying will probably be instrument training and $100 hamburger runs, fishing trips with another buddy.
 
You should be looking for a Cherokee Six instead of a 140. Wayne is right -- it costs a lot to keep trading. I think you could find a good Cherokee Six for a reasonable price and it is a great airplane.
 
If so, no reason to pay for more than you need. My experience indicates the opposite is more likely to be true. Once trained, the opportunities to fly with the family become more apparent and the lack of adequate seatage more problematic.

teethdoc said:
Still searching. The owner would not budge on price and I want it down closer to $25k. I hope I'm being realistic. As for the 6 seater now, it will be about 3 times as expensive to by and more than double to own. 90% of my flying will probably be instrument training and $100 hamburger runs, fishing trips with another buddy.
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AggieMike88 said:
Maybe not in direct funds, but you might sell the aircraft quicker because it is there.
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There is no 'might' about it. I was involved in trying to sell a Warrior that had only an old VFR GPS. There was Zero interest in it from buyers, everyone wants to get that 430 (or at least KLN94) paid for by the prior owner.

I also think that $25K for a PA-28 with a 430, paint and interior in decent condition is really too low. $30K for that is a steal.
 
JimNtexas said:
There is no 'might' about it. I was involved in trying to sell a Warrior that had only an old VFR GPS. There was Zero interest in it from buyers, everyone wants to get that 430 (or at least KLN94) paid for by the prior owner.

I also think that $25K for a PA-28 with a 430, paint and interior in decent condition is really too low. $30K for that is a steal.
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I was thinking $27K to $28K, but if the condition is really that great, it could easily be worth a couple more grand, otherwise you'll end up spending that anyway, to get it there. It is really worth what you are willing to pay for it. There are a lot of people giving advice on how little you should pay, but when I was out looking, there was a lot of c**p out there that you could get cheap, but you would end up dumping a bunch of money into after you buy it. The truly good ones will sell fast and/or command a better price.
 
I wish there was a 6 sweater available for rent nearby.
 
teethdoc said:
I wish there was a 6 sweater available for rent nearby.
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Just come to Texas in August and we'll accommodate that request real easy!
 
JimNtexas said:
There is no 'might' about it. I was involved in trying to sell a Warrior that had only an old VFR GPS. There was Zero interest in it from buyers, everyone wants to get that 430 (or at least KLN94) paid for by the prior owner.

I also think that $25K for a PA-28 with a 430, paint and interior in decent condition is really too low. $30K for that is a steal.
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A decent offering for a 1972 PA28-180. No 430 in it, a smidge high on the times. but if they are willing to let go for a modest discount, it could be a good one for somebody to have, fly a few hours beyond TBO with a good dry rate to save up for the replacement motor.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Single+Engine+Piston/1971/Piper/Cherokee+180/1595025.html
 
I looked at the subject line and though, "Slow, steady squeeze while the sights are lined up. Hold that pressure when they drift off, and then continue when they align with the target. Be surprised when the rifle fires." That wasn't the intended subject? Nevermind... :D
 
denverpilot said:
Whoever flew it last doesn't do a shutdown checklist... Note Transponder. ;)
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I have done that, when ATC had me stay on squawk through the landing and taxi (a couple of times). I have always caught it on the startup checklist, though. My shutdown checklist is pretty short. Radios off, lights off, idle cutoff, mags and master. I sometimes do a mag switch check, but not every time.
 
John221us said:
I have done that, when ATC had me stay on squawk through the landing and taxi (a couple of times). I have always caught it on the startup checklist, though. My shutdown checklist is pretty short. Radios off, lights off, idle cutoff, mags and master. I sometimes do a mag switch check, but not every time.
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I always leave my TXP set on whatever I landed with.
 
Ghery said:
I looked at the subject line and though, "Slow, steady squeeze while the sights are lined up. Hold that pressure when they drift off, and then continue when they align with the target. Be surprised when the rifle fires." That wasn't the intended subject? Nevermind... :D
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LOL, I was thinking the same thing. ;)
 
Ghery said:
I looked at the subject line and though, "Slow, steady squeeze while the sights are lined up. Hold that pressure when they drift off, and then continue when they align with the target. Be surprised when the rifle fires." That wasn't the intended subject? Nevermind... :D
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I hav no problem squeezing that trigger. Especially if there is a big deer or duck on the other end.
 
teethdoc said:
Still searching. The owner would not budge on price and I want it down closer to $25k. I hope I'm being realistic. As for the 6 seater now, it will be about 3 times as expensive to by and more than double to own. 90% of my flying will probably be instrument training and $100 hamburger runs, fishing trips with another buddy.
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You mean "2 times as expensive to buy" and "less than double to own".

You can find some 6/260s out there in decent shape for 50 large. And c6s are not super expensive to own.

I would also look at beech sierras with child seats as a compromise.
 
teethdoc said:
Still searching. The owner would not budge on price and I want it down closer to $25k. I hope I'm being realistic. As for the 6 seater now, it will be about 3 times as expensive to by and more than double to own. 90% of my flying will probably be instrument training and $100 hamburger runs, fishing trips with another buddy.
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What's the general condition? If it scores in the 5+s on P&I you would turn that plane down at $30k why? How did you arrive at $25k? Bloody thing has 600hrs on a first run engine.

I kinda question why you want it at all, jst buy the Cherokee 6 now.
 
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