Help me design a new panel for my Luscombe

[birdus]

I recently bought a 1946 Luscombe 8E. The panel is an ugly hodgepodge of gauges, has some empty holes, some questionably functioning instruments, has different breakers scattered around, and I have a stuck fuel sender in my right tank. Moreover, I don't have a turn & bank indicator or an artificial horizon. So, I'm missing some things I need in order to finish my private pilot training. On top of that, I need ADSB. Soooo...I'm going to put a new panel in it. Here's a picture of the panel that's in it now.



I think I'll keep a couple odds and ends just for sentimentality. Here's a bad Photoshop mock-up of a new panel I've put together. It's a certified Luscombe blank along with my initial attempt of a layout. I'll paint the new one, so don't pay too much attention to the aesthetics of my mock-up.



Let me walk you through everything. Starting with the high points, the two primary instruments are 3 1/8" gauges at the top. The one on the left is the Aerovonics AV-30. They were recently purchased by uAvionix. The one on the right is the Electronics International CGR-30C. These two will replace all primary instruments, including airspeed, altimeter, compass, VSI, tach, oil pressure, oil temp, EGT, amps, volts, and fuel levels in both tanks. I also get an artificial horizon, turn & bank, etc.

I can't think of a good reason to spend thousands of dollars to replace the radio, so I plan on keeping the Bendix/King KX-125. It seems like a decent nav/com. Below that will be a new Stratus ESGi for GPS & ADSB In/Out. To the far left and right are Stratus USB jacks, with two outputs each. Lower left is the original (I think) master switch and master power light. To the right of those are the original mag switch (I think) and the starter button (not original).

To the far right is a glove box. I thought I would reuse the door which the current panel still has. Upper center is a Comtronics DVX Intercom. Just below that, I thought I would see about having the Silvaire emblem made. Looks like you can get a custom one online, according to your own design.

Last is bottom center. Right in the middle is the throttle with carb heat just above it. I'm learning that you use those two a LOT together, so it made sense to put them adjacent to each other. To the left of those are 4 switches. I have one each for landing lights, nav lights, and anti-collision (there's an extra one in the image just in case). Right now, I just have nav lights, but my instructor told me I have to have anti-collision, so I thought I would replace the wingtip lights with combination nav/anti-collision lights. I don't know if I can turn the two on and off independently, but I put switches there for both, just in case. Below the switches are some breakers. Don't know how many of those I'll need. To the right of the throttle are mixture (might replace the original with a vernier—don't know yet), and then in a triangle to the right of that the primer on top and cabin air and cabin heat underneath.

By the way, I plan on using suction cups to mount my 11" iPad Pro to the big empty spot in the middle of the panel.

This layout makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm a clueless neophyte. My budget is around $10,000 + a couple payments to the A&P/IA. I'd love any and all feedback.

Thanks,
Jay

 

[pigpenracing]

If you want the ipad to sit flat and look good use Velcro.... I have not had good luck with suction cups. Maybe for 1 flight but if you plan to leave the ipad in the plane suction cups suck. If you want to take the ipad out each flight just mount a Ram exact fit/exrollr cradle on the panel...
https://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/ram-ipad-pro-11-perfect-fit-cradle-with-1-ball.html

 

[pigpenracing]

Ram cradle in my Pitts with the Ipad mini

 

[wheaties]

Given your budget, I can't see a way of doing this for less. That said, are you allowed to install the AV-30 in that bird?

 

[Grum.Man]

Given your budget, I can't see a way of doing this for less. That said, are you allowed to install the AV-30 in that bird?

Not yet. Their website says they expect STC certification second quarter 2020.

 

[Grum.Man]

Might check with Aerovonics to make sure it can receive nav signals from your KX125. Some of the new electronic flight displays can't process older Nav radio signals. If it can't I would find a GNC225 radio, you could then ditch the standalone intercom further cleaning up the panel.

 

[Jim Carpenter]

Regarding the carb heat control, on (some) Cessnas, the carb heat knob is just to the left of the throttle, making it easy to push in with your thumb while simultaneously going full throttle on a go-around, etc. I suppose it would work above as well, but seems a more awkward, less natural hand position.
Personally, I would not want headset cables plugged into the middle of the panel, in the way of throttle, etc.
And, a minor issue, but think about leaving room for the 406 Mhz ELT on/off switch, too.

 

[Eric Lehto]

You'd have to read the Aerovonix STC closely when it's released. The competition (G5/E5) are not certified to replace primary altitude and airspeed, so the AV-30 may be in the same situation.

 

[texasclouds]

I’d personally keep the steam gauges for the classic look. Checkout this pic I found online:

 

[texasclouds]

 

[Arnold]

This is my 8A panel. I Velcro a small tablet just under the radio on the left. No starter or mixture because it is an A-65 engine. If I were moving things I'd probably swap the tach and VSI.

I don't know why your instructor says you need a flashing beacon, they are not required for VFR day or night. I haven't looked lately but I don't recall Luscombes ever being certified for IFR. So I'm not sure why you would put thousands of dollars of fancy electronics in an airframe that is worth about 10K plus engine value and which you'll fly looking out the window. Still, it would be cool and your model might be IFR legal. Check the Type Certificate on the FAA website, I might be wrong.

When researching regulations pertaining to this aircraft note that it is not certificated pursuant to CAR 3 as many people think. It is certificated under part 4b which pre-dates 3.

Last thought. My understanding is the market for these airplanes places more value on authenticity rather than capability.

 

[Dana]

I'm in the "keep it original" camp too. By all means build a new panel, it's a mess, but steam gauges with the modern radios confined to the corner of the panel.

 

[texasclouds]

Do any of y’all know if a 6’2” pilot would fit in this model? I’m all legs, usually they hit the panel on these older planes.

 

[Arnold]

Do any of y’all know if a 6’2” pilot would fit in this model? I’m all legs, usually they hit the panel on these older planes.

I don't know for sure. I can tell you that a friend I fly with regularly is 6' 0" and he has never complained. Comfort is of course relative, you'd fit great in a Mooney. My issue is normally useful load. I can tell you that the donut I had this morning messed up my useful load improvement program.

 

[Grum.Man]

This is my 8A panel. I Velcro a small tablet just under the radio on the left. No starter or mixture because it is an A-65 engine. If I were moving things I'd probably swap the tach and VSI.

I don't know why your instructor says you need a flashing beacon, they are not required for VFR day or night. I haven't looked lately but I don't recall Luscombes ever being certified for IFR. So I'm not sure why you would put thousands of dollars of fancy electronics in an airframe that is worth about 10K plus engine value and which you'll fly looking out the window. Still, it would be cool and your model might be IFR legal. Check the Type Certificate on the FAA website, I might be wrong.

When researching regulations pertaining to this aircraft note that it is not certificated pursuant to CAR 3 as many people think. It is certificated under part 4b which pre-dates 3.

Last thought. My understanding is the market for these airplanes places more value on authenticity rather than capability.

This is my 8A panel. I Velcro a small tablet just under the radio on the left. No starter or mixture because it is an A-65 engine. If I were moving things I'd probably swap the tach and VSI.

I don't know why your instructor says you need a flashing beacon, they are not required for VFR day or night. I haven't looked lately but I don't recall Luscombes ever being certified for IFR. So I'm not sure why you would put thousands of dollars of fancy electronics in an airframe that is worth about 10K plus engine value and which you'll fly looking out the window. Still, it would be cool and your model might be IFR legal. Check the Type Certificate on the FAA website, I might be wrong.

When researching regulations pertaining to this aircraft note that it is not certificated pursuant to CAR 3 as many people think. It is certificated under part 4b which pre-dates 3.

Last thought. My understanding is the market for these airplanes places more value on authenticity rather than capability.

Some form of anti collision light is required for night flight, be it a rotating beacon or a strobe as well as the typical 3 color position lighting...

Type certificate datasheets don't dictate whether an airplane is IFR certified or not. As long as it has the equipment listed in 14 CFR 91.205 and the proper inspections it can be IFR legal.

 

[Dana]

Oh yeah, the ipad can go on a kneeboard. And if you were to replace the com, Becker makes some nifty ones that fit in a 2" instrument home (I pulled the unused VOR out of my plane and replaced it with a Becker com radio, allowing me to get rid of the ancient and heavy Narco com).

 

[Tusayan]

The panel on a Luscombe 8 is far forward compared with most of its contemporaries, because the fuel tank isn’t there - it’s either behind your head or in the wings. A 6’2” pilot fits with his knees behind the panel, not under it. One potential issue is that the original upholstery in a Luscombe was thin to provide room for taller pilots but if it’s been made thicker and cushier there is less room.

I think the best plan for a Luscombe panel re-do is to use an original blank and make it look as much like stock as practical. Avionics etc can go in the glovebox areas on the left and right sides of the panel as these were originally designed for huge radios and offer plenty of room. If wanted you can make quick detach glovebox doors covering the modern avionics when desired. I think relatively few people would put an intentionally modern looking panel in a Luscombe nowadays.

 

[birdus]

...you could then ditch the standalone intercom further cleaning up the panel.

Yeah, I wasn't thrilled about putting that there, but didn't know of a better spot. At first, I had standalone jacks on the far left and far right, thinking they could probably be connected to the radio behind the scenes. That would be nicer.

Jay

 

[brcase]

I generally like your proposed layout but I would recommend keeping your analog airspeed and altimeter, after all you already have them.
While some digital displays are better than others I find it difficult to see trends on many digital displays. For example you have to watch a digital speed display for a few seconds to see if it is increasing or decreasing and how fast, where as seeing the relative movement of the needle is almost instantaneous.
Same with altitude seeing a 1/2" displacement for 50 feet off of altitude is more intuitive the reading 3550, as well as seeing the movement of needle to indicate if you are climbing or descending. Optionally you might want to keep your Rate of Climb indicator for the same reason.

I would put 4 or 5 instrument in a row like you have them, put the ASI to the far left, and the Altimeter to the right of Attitude indicator.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[Huckster79]

Its a classic, keep it classic...