Help a Newbie: Pre-Buy/Firewall

[machkhatib]

Hey guys. I’m about to buy a Piper Cherokee. I plan on getting my own pre-buy inspection but in the meantime, the seller shared the pre-buy findings from another buyer who backed out of the deal. The biggest “show stopper” for the prior buyer was the firewall. Apparently there was some exhaust leak scalding which was repaired with a large patch and riveted. The repair is documented but there is no 337 form.

Full list below:

1. Fuel cap gaskets need replacement
2. Minor hail damage (small dents/dings)
3. Minor play in aileron rod ends within limits
4. Small dents in left flap
5. Missing cowling prop rod
6. Brake reservoir cap missing stand-off pipe
7. Large patch on firewall. Entry made but no 337 form.
8. Crack in bottom wing skin, stop drilled.
9. Corrosion under battery drain holes under fuselage
10. Minor filiform spots of corrosion under fuselage
11. Stabilator trim tab cracked and stop drilled
12. Pilot window vent crazing and cracked
13. Dry cracks between treads on one tire
14. Dirt dobber nests in left wing
15. Minor surface corrosion inside wings
16. Primer lines missing clamps
17. Cowling arm broken clip retainer
18. Cracks in baffling previously repaired
19. Cowling latch cracked at attachment bracket
20. Prop safety bolts secured with .032 wire not .040 wire
21. Cosmetic cracks in cowling fiberglass, fairings, and wing tips
22. Cracks in bottom cowling near forward latch, stop drilled
23. Dent in top cowling. Multiple cracks in top cowling near windshield, repaired.
24. Primer does not extend all the way out.
25. Dent in right flap where it says “no step”
26. Main gear tire dry/cracked

Otherwise, engine time is low and compressions are great. Paint is good overall. Interior and instrument panel look good, too.

Your thoughts/comments appreciated!!!

 

[Bell206]

Your thoughts/comments appreciated!!!

The repair is documented but there is no 337 form

FYI: not all repairs require a 337. And the person you should be showing this list to is the APIA that will be maintaining this aircraft for you because he is the one who will be charging you to fix the line-items he doesn't like.

 

[Omalley1537]

Hey guys. I’m about to buy a Piper Cherokee. I plan on getting my own pre-buy inspection but in the meantime, the seller shared the pre-buy findings from another buyer who backed out of the deal. The biggest “show stopper” for the prior buyer was the firewall. Apparently there was some exhaust leak scalding which was repaired with a large patch and riveted. The repair is documented but there is no 337 form.

Full list below:

1. Fuel cap gaskets need replacement
2. Minor hail damage (small dents/dings)
3. Minor play in aileron rod ends within limits
4. Small dents in left flap
5. Missing cowling prop rod
6. Brake reservoir cap missing stand-off pipe
7. Large patch on firewall. Entry made but no 337 form.
8. Crack in bottom wing skin, stop drilled.
9. Corrosion under battery drain holes under fuselage
10. Minor filiform spots of corrosion under fuselage
11. Stabilator trim tab cracked and stop drilled
12. Pilot window vent crazing and cracked
13. Dry cracks between treads on one tire
14. Dirt dobber nests in left wing
15. Minor surface corrosion inside wings
16. Primer lines missing clamps
17. Cowling arm broken clip retainer
18. Cracks in baffling previously repaired
19. Cowling latch cracked at attachment bracket
20. Prop safety bolts secured with .032 wire not .040 wire
21. Cosmetic cracks in cowling fiberglass, fairings, and wing tips
22. Cracks in bottom cowling near forward latch, stop drilled
23. Dent in top cowling. Multiple cracks in top cowling near windshield, repaired.
24. Primer does not extend all the way out.
25. Dent in right flap where it says “no step”
26. Main gear tire dry/cracked

Otherwise, engine time is low and compressions are great. Paint is good overall. Interior and instrument panel look good, too.

Your thoughts/comments appreciated!!!

Bell 206 has far more experience than I do, so heed his input and others that will likely chime in…but here’s my .02.

Key questions:

-what’s the price? Does it reflect the cost to repair all those sheet metal issues? The one that would give me pause is the one on the wing itself…why is cracked there? Structural damage underneath?

-are you paying a premium for the “low-time” engine? If so, can you absorb the additional cost if the engine craps out long before tbo? Everyone has a different opinion, but mine is that I will never buy another airplane without a runout engine and a price to match. That way I can buy the nicest airplane I can find (avionics, paint, structure, interior) and install a new engine with the money in the budget as cost savings. My previous 182 had a mid-time (600-ish hour) O-470 that I paid mid-time $ for, only to have it make metal 100 hrs in. False economy buying a low or mid-time engine as far as I’m concerned…but conversely, I realize I’m a data pool of one.

-how long (calendar) since OH? By who? How’s the borescope look? Lots more to engine health than compression numbers.

-Lots of Cherokees out there. Don’t get emotionally attached. If you’re looking for a P-51, you might get what you get, because there’s not a lot of examples. Tons of PAs and C’s out there.

 

[machkhatib]

Many thanks for the advice and input. I definitely won’t get emotionally attached. That’s an interesting thought about buying a plane with a run-out engine - the problem I see is a lot of those listings with run-out engines price the plane with a discount that is less than half the cost of a major overhaul. It’s a weird market.

Since you asked, price is mid-to-high $40K range.

 

[DavidWhite]

Keep in mind that if an engine is calendared out on the TBO it is still “Past TBO” and the price should reflect accordingly. I know its a sellers market, but we bought a “low-time” 300 hour motor that was 8 years old and was nothing but trouble.

I’d much rather have a mid-time engine that has been flying 200 hours/year than a “low-time” one that has flown 20/year

 

[Omalley1537]

Many thanks for the advice and input. I definitely won’t get emotionally attached. That’s an interesting thought about buying a plane with a run-out engine - the problem I see is a lot of those listings with run-out engines price the plane with a discount that is less than half the cost of a major overhaul. It’s a weird market.

Since you asked, price is mid-to-high $40K range.

my apologies, my question was rhetorical for you to pose to yourself in your scenario. Wasn’t looking to pry.

 

[Magman]

It seems there are quite a few aircraft named “ Dimples “ due to small hail dings.
someof the squawks are easy to fix. Others you can just “ live with”. In todays market it looks like this is a typical deal. I don’t see DONT BUY flags here.

 

[machkhatib]

This one didn’t pan out but I appreciate all the advice. It’s educational for me.

 

[mandm]

This one didn’t pan out but I appreciate all the advice. It’s educational for me.

Was it because the seller refused a pre-buy? Get something without problems, last thing you want is a bird that will be down after you buy it.

 

[machkhatib]

Was it because the seller refused a pre-buy? Get something without problems, last thing you want is a bird that will be down after you buy it.

No. We are back on. It was off because I was the 2nd buyer in line and the 1st buyer was still on the fence. He finally ran out of time and the seller signed a contract with me. I am now working on the pre-buy. I finally found a mechanic who will do the pre-buy at onsite next week.