Helicopter Kits/Plans/Important Parts?

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Kevin Eggert

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Kevin
So, I'm interested in building a kit helicopter, but many of the options that were previously available, don't seem to be around any more. I like the newer Rotorway, but they are no longer in business. I like the Safari 500 or even the 400, but after talking to someone on the phone at their business number, they have nothing built and aren't sure when anything might even be available. I saw the Aerokopter Ak1-3 at Airventure this year, but after speaking with the man about their 51% E-AB option, I didn't walk away with the feeling that anything would be available to buy any time soon there either. Other than buying someone else's project and not knowing what their build standards are or were, or if the parts I'm unable to fabricate are even all there or available, what are some current options in building a 2 person personal helicopter? Are there even any out there?
 
Did you see Vic Syracuse's series on building a hummingbird in Kitplanes? That one looks like 4 seats though...
 
Kevin Eggert said:
what are some current options in building a 2 person personal helicopter? Are there even any out there?
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There are options, but I've found knowing the reason why or what you hope to achieve with an E/AB helicopter will narrow your choices. For example, in the 2-place category you may be better served to look at a gyroplane vs a helicopter. Its considered a "rotorcraft" so depending on your need it may be a better option. However, for a single-seat the Mosquito or Helicycle is one route and for a 4-seater there is the Hummingbird which is actually based on the S-52. Then there is the Hill HX-50 but its still in the design stages however could set the next standard for E/AB helicopters... but at a price.
 
I do like the Hummingbird option. All in, though, you're getting close to $400k by the time you're done. The HX-50 is beautiful, but beyond my means as well.
 
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I'm sure there are plenty of second hand Rotorway kits on the market. Based on what I saw with two friends who had earlier versions, I'd run away as fast as possible. Same for Mini-500's.

The others? I have no idea.
 

another choice just popped into my youtube suggestions. I have daydreamed for many years about building a helo like this. Always wanted to fly one but they're just so expensive!
I often wonder what life would have been like had I followed through with my thought about joining the USCG after college with the goal of flying helicopters. I was talking to recruiters but "chickened out"
 
k9medic said:
I survived flying 10 hours off of an initial built rotorway. It was a hell of an experience and I would never do it again. For the cost of a Rotorway, I would find a TH55 or H269a
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Would you mind elaborating a little on this. You aren't the first one I've heard (read) this from, so I'm just curious what the problems are. It seems like people either love or hate the Rotorway. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground.
 
It was evaluated by a rotor way guru prior to me taking out for test flights.

First couple of hours were spent hovering and doing ground maneuvers.

I then progressed into quick stops and a little bit more aggressive maneuvering still close to the ground.

My first flight around the pattern, I started to hear some squealing and was losing tail rotor authority. Wound up doing a run on landing to the field at the airport. The belt for the tail rotor had stretched well beyond limits when measured with the dowel.

That was fixed and I went out on a subsequent flight. Wound up getting low rotor rpm on short approach and had to slide it on again.

I left it in the field for the owner to pick it up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Kevin Eggert said:
so I'm just curious what the problems are. It seems like people either love or hate the Rotorway. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground.
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The basic design lends itself to premature failures and other issues especially with the tailrotor drive and engine. Its my understanding there have been some upgrades done, but even that has not improved the overall aircraft much. Add in at 200 hours there are some major component replacements so people tend to move on from them once they get close to that.

The only kits I've seen garner a better rep is the Mosquito and HeliCycle. Know a few people that used them with success and moved up to the next level. Regardless, you'll find anytime you deal with a one-off or unique aircraft there will be people for it or against it with minimal middle ground people.
 
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I looked in my loogbook to see where that Rotorcraft 162F wound up. My first flight in it was 3/19/2004 and the last flight I did in it was 5/4/2004. To the best of my knowledge, the original builder (who owned an R22 as well) never flew it. Looks like it was sold 12/12/2005.

The original builder passed away in 2022 at 82 years old.

There was one recorded accident in the helicopter. This was not me - "THE PILOT ABORTED THE TAKEOFF AFTER REACHING APPROXIMATELY 50 KNOTS AIRSPEED BECAUSE OF A HIGH ROTOR RPM INDICATION. DURING THE TOUCHDOWN SEGMENT, THE AIRCRAFT TOUCHED DOWN HARD ON THE AFT SKIDS WITH THE TAIL LOW. THE SURFACE THAT THE AIRCRAFT CONTACTED WAS SOFT MUD APPROXIMATELY 100 YARDS OFF THE DEPARTURE END OF RUNWAY 33. THE AIRCRAFT RECEIVED DAMAGE TO THE SKIDS AND TAIL ROTOR BLADES."
 
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I had two hangar neighbors with Rotorway 162's. Years of showing up on Saturday to see them run-up the helicopters, maybe hover, maybe air-taxi. I literally saw one of those two helicopters out of ground effect once in probably 5 years. Airshows 50 miles away? They trailered the helicopters. One of the guys converted his to a Jet Exec. Among other things, that involved swapping in a drive shaft and gearbox for the tail rotor. The shaft failed one day in a 4' hover and he went for Mr. Toad's wild ride. He set it down quickly enough he just bent the skids. Fixed and sold that one. Entered the business of converting others to Jet Exec's. After 2-3 of them went down for various reasons, he chose a different retirement business. Helicopters are serious engineering because of the fatigue and vibration issues. I'd run and hide from all of the homebuilts other than maybe the Hummingbird, which is/was a certified design.
 
I would not have the stomach for (what I imagine is) their accident stats.
And I think I’m pretty tolerant of risk.
 
As an offshoot of my original question, what about building plans only? What I mean by this is, rather than buying a kit, are there any building plans available out there for a two seat E/AB helicopter? I feel like my fabrication skills are sufficient to build most of the parts that would come ready to assemble in a kit. Do such blueprints or building plans exist for sale?
 
Kevin Eggert said:
Do such blueprints or building plans exist for sale?
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There have been many one-off attempts at building helicopters. Some of those plans may still be out there if your dig deep enough. However, the main reason a lot of them failed was in trying to design the components: engine, transmissions, MR head, etc. And when one would decide to use someone else’s components because of this roadblock, their “new” design becomes moot has they need to change the design to fit those components. So the project is dropped and that person buys the existing kit. So unless your fabrication skills include those different types of disciplines it would be a steep hill to climb. But that hasn't stopped everyone. The guy behind the HX50 I mentioned above is designing everything for his E/AB helicopter to include the turbine engine, gearboxes, blades, etc. Quite remarkable in my opinion.
 
kyleb said:
I'm sure there are plenty of second hand Rotorway kits on the market. Based on what I saw with two friends who had earlier versions, I'd run away as fast as possible. Same for Mini-500's.

The others? I have no idea.
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The Rotorway used to really get my interest---but I had to notice that most completed models for sale had very few hours. I just never saw one with say a couple hundred hours on it.
 
I barely trust helicopters built by professionals with decades of experience. I don't see myself getting in one that was amateur built.

Not saying it shouldn't be possible for an intrepid builder, it's just something outside of my (fairly expansive) risk tolerance.
 
GaryM said:
I don't see myself getting in one that was amateur built.
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Its my understanding that with the changes in MOSAIC there will be some interesting LSA helicopter options in the future that may just fill the gap between E/AB and TC options. However, I'm not talking about the one that is making the rounds online as its just a Rotorway with different lipstick and an "auto-pilot."
 
A used R-22 (not cheap) would be your best bet. I worked at Robinson and saw many with 2000TT come in for overhaul. That says something. I'm would trust a Robinson, but not an experimental.
 
Brad Smith said:
A used R-22 (not cheap) would be your best bet. I worked at Robinson and saw many with 2000TT come in for overhaul. That says something. I'm would trust a Robinson, but not an experimental.
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Not really a comparison given the R22 is type certified. And the 2200hr/12 year overhaul is merely the mx cycle Robison elected to use. But even with their track record and history there are R22s with 20,000+ hrs TT flying around. That said, IMO there a couple E/AB helicopters I would put on the same general level as the R22.
 
Why do the african homebuilt experimentals come to mind? Seriously, experimental helicopters are in no way comparable to the success of experimental airplanes. The machining and metallurgy necessary for helicopters is much more demanding than for any airplane parts. Consider the scrap life of so many certified helicopter components. Now try to replicate those parts in an economical kit helicopter.

It may not always be like this, but for now its the state of the art. Disappointingly impractical for now.
 
moparrob66 said:
It may not always be like this, but for now its the state of the art. Disappointingly impractical for now.
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Depends on how you look at it. Rotorcraft, in general, make up a very small percentage of Part 91 private recreational aircraft. Same for E/AB helicopters. But that may be changing with the Hill HX50. While its outside of most airplane E/AB price ranges, from the rotorcraft side its broke the mold on what an E/AB helicopter can be. And it has 1000+ pre-orders. Plus with MOSAIC’s changes the HX50 may end up changing more than just E/AB helicopter side. Time will tell.
 
Looks really great. I'll watch for the updates, but until its whopping around Oshkosh, my compliments to the photoshop artist!
 
Kevin Eggert said:
So, I'm interested in building a kit helicopter, but many of the options that were previously available, don't seem to be around any more. I like the newer Rotorway, but they are no longer in business. I like the Safari 500 or even the 400, but after talking to someone on the phone at their business number, they have nothing built and aren't sure when anything might even be available. I saw the Aerokopter Ak1-3 at Airventure this year, but after speaking with the man about their 51% E-AB option, I didn't walk away with the feeling that anything would be available to buy any time soon there either. Other than buying someone else's project and not knowing what their build standards are or were, or if the parts I'm unable to fabricate are even all there or available, what are some current options in building a 2 person personal helicopter? Are there even any out there?
Click to expand...
You can still build a two seat kit, but options are fewer now. Rotorway support is limited and Safari has long wait times. Look at the Helicycle and the Mosquito XE for active kit support, but both are single seat. For two seats, most people buy a partially completed Safari or Rotorway from someone who stopped their build. Check the condition and parts inventory carefully before you buy. This avoids the risk of missing parts or stopped production.
 
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