Heard Somthing Different When Flying Today

Zeldman said:
And I always thought tower monitored 121.5.

Took off from ABQ late one night and when the gear went up I flipped the switch to monitor 121.5. As soon as I flipped the switch an ELT started blaring in my ears. I notified tower of my discovery and the questions started.

The ELT was on the airport, parked in a hangar..... maybe set off by a hard landing.
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We do monitor both UHF anf VHF guard...until there's a bunch of yapping going on or an ELT goes off. Many many times someone will notify us of an ELT and we can't hear it. Happens all the time.

When I'm flying on a cross country, I'll monitor guard because sometimes the radio is so quiet I'm wondering if I'm still talking to someone. I have just done a radio check with center just to see if they're still there.
 
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One of the best things that flowed down to GA was the flip/flop comm radios back in the 70's. Using one freq while you could dial in another in 'standby' was great and saved a lot of 'Oh DAMN, what was that freq I was on before I dialed in the wrong one?'.
 
Timbeck2 said:
On another note, one would be surprised at how many controllers assume pilots have their radios tuned to 121.5.
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Anything cross country I do. Have had requests to relay for ATC on both center and guard frequencies.

Was in your area (Marana eastbound) and heard the Tuscon controllers trying to get hold of an aircraft that crossed the ADIZ, they broadcast several times, then I heard the intercept plane trying to get their attention as well.
 
Sundancer said:
Seldom monitor it - just have two radios, one for ATC and the other for AWOS and everything else. If xctry, in good weather, I may tune it on comm 2.
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Do you continuously listen to the weather ?


My com2 is a flip-flop radio. I have 121.5 on one and the destination weather on the other. So outside of the minute or three I need to listen to awos/asos I have 121.5 in the background.
 
weilke said:
Do you continuously listen to the weather ?


My com2 is a flip-flop radio. I have 121.5 on one and the destination weather on the other. So outside of the minute or three I need to listen to awos/asos I have 121.5 in the background.
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When local, I'm in and around the DC SFRA and FRZ; once clear, but nearby, I leave Potomac on comm 2. Or, just drop off listening to either radio when well clear and just larking about, vice traveling.
 
Sundancer said:
When local, I'm in and around the DC SFRA and FRZ; once clear, but nearby, I leave Potomac on comm 2. Or, just drop off listening to either radio when well clear and just larking about, vice traveling.
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Around the SFRA it is even more important to monitor 121.5. That is where the AF is going to try to hail you before they do anything more drastic. I had an inbound PCT controller fatfinger my entry, as a result I was an 'unidentified return' for the AF kid. First I told rhe controller that the AF is hailing me, then I turned the the audio panel to com2 and told them my callsign and the frequency I was talking to PCT on.
 
I've served as targets for the interceptors - you won't be raining down in bloody chunks if you don't do an instantaneous freq change. If it's convention to use the second comm for actual aviation purposes, I do so. Bck int he day, the coordination was less well done, like when they intercepted some governors plane - Potomac had him, the "other" folks did not. I saw the intercept, as they flew down Georgia Ave. It got sorted, and is better organized now.
 
asicer said:
Any Traffic In The Area, Please Advise
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I keep hearing a LifeFlight pilot saying this. You would think a professional pilot would know the AIM phraseology and refrain, but he keeps on doing it.
 
You hear ATC calling people who have missed a handoff on guard on occasion. Another good reason to always monitor it (as well as ATC announcing that an aircraft has strayed into a R-area or TFR).
 
Most military aircraft monitor both UHF and VHF guard. I'll usually turn off VHF guard when the usual suspects start yapping non-stop. In the airlines, we always monitor VHF guard. If I'm flying light GA and it has a backup radio, I'll monitor guard as well...always a good practice.

Banjo33 said:
We in the Marine Corps and Navy call guard “Air Force Common.” Running joke as they do comm checks on it at least 3 times a day on what sounds like 3 different radios around here.
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Lol weird, we call it Navy Common. Often times we're asked by ATC to do Guard radio checks for their various transmitters. My record is 4 on VHF and a UHF check by one controller.
 
Banjo33 said:
We in the Marine Corps and Navy call guard “Air Force Common.” Running joke as they do comm checks on it at least 3 times a day on what sounds like 3 different radios around here.
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Yep, we call Guard "Navy common" - out here in the Pacific it's SO TRUE! I hear guys off the boat briefing stuff on guard literally every day. It's ridiculous!

Having hired a few Navy guys now, I've figured out that (at least in their mind) when they say "Air Force Common" they are talking about the USAF base towers doing guard checks. Fair enough, they do them often - any more often and I'd mistake them for a pair of USN F-18's!!! I don't claim our tower controllers as part of "us" for this argument - the operators in the USAF don't use Guard unless required. Navy operators? Different story IME.
 
EvilEagle said:
Yep, we call Guard "Navy common" - out here in the Pacific it's SO TRUE! I hear guys off the boat briefing stuff on guard literally every day. It's ridiculous!

Having hired a few Navy guys now, I've figured out that (at least in their mind) when they say "Air Force Common" they are talking about the USAF base towers doing guard checks. Fair enough, they do them often - any more often and I'd mistake them for a pair of USN F-18's!!! I don't claim our tower controllers as part of "us" for this argument - the operators in the USAF don't use Guard unless required. Navy operators? Different story IME.
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And @Banjo33 @Timbeck2 and others of the afterburner crowd. Is "change to departures, monitor guard, cleared for takeoff" still a thing. That's what we did at El Toro and North Island. At Iwakuni, the pilots would call the Tower on the departure frequency for take off clearance. Local would key the freq, clear them and then unkey the transmitter. There was, and still is a rule that Controllers are not to give frequency changes to military turboprop/jet aircraft(except transport an cargo types) below 2500 feet. If Guard is being used as a means to make ATC transmissions if necessary, it makes sense that checking those frequencies are working more than say just once a week or so is a good idea. What about today's generation of Fighters? Does the cockpit layout make it easier to make frequency changes than it would have been in the older planes.
 
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Cleared for take off and change to departure is still a thing. I don't think I've ever told someone to monitor guard.
 
luvflyin said:
And @Banjo33 @Timbeck2 and others of the afterburner crowd. Is "change to departures, monitor guard, cleared for takeoff" still a thing. That's what we did at El Toro and North Island. At Iwakuni, the pilots would call the Tower on the departure frequency for take off clearance. Local would key the freq, clear them and then unkey the transmitter. There was, and still is a rule that Controllers are not to give frequency changes to military turboprop/jet aircraft(except transport an cargo types) below 2500 feet. If Guard is being used as a means to make ATC transmissions if necessary, it makes sense that checking those frequencies are working more than say just once a week or so is a good idea. What about today's generation of Fighters? Does the cockpit layout make it easier to make frequency changes than it would have been in the older planes.
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Never heard instructing military to monitor guard. We automatically monitored in the Army. Don’t think it was regulatory outside of the post 9/11 NOTAM though.

“Stone11, runway 23, wind calm, cleared for takeoff, change to departure.”

Never had any issues with nonsense on guard with pilots either. “Sea Lord” was annoying as **** but that’s a different story.;)
 
luvflyin said:
Do they change prior to roll? Do you have the departure frequency in the Tower?
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Fighter types get changed prior to roll and the departure frequency is Tracon's. We are also clearance delivery in the tower as a ground control duty and we give them the departure freq in the clearance.
 
Velocity173 said:
Never heard instructing military to monitor guard. We automatically monitored in the Army. Don’t think it was regulatory outside of the post 9/11 NOTAM though.

“Stone11, runway 23, wind calm, cleared for takeoff, change to departure.”

Never had any issues with nonsense on guard with pilots either. “Sea Lord” was annoying as **** but that’s a different story.;)
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I assume your talking about Beaufort. Do you know if they would change prior to roll and did you have the Departure frequency in the Tower?
 
luvflyin said:
I assume your talking about Beaufort. Do you know if they would change prior to roll and did you have the Departure frequency in the Tower?
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Oh yeah, they changed prior to roll. Departure freq in the tower also. I believe a rolling call was required from TC to FD. Definitely didn’t have auto release at the time either. “Departure, Hawk55 deck check climbin’ to two.”

Some of the AV-8 guys would even do their internal comms over departure freq.
“Beaufort Departure Lime22 cleared to two thousand.”

“Lime22, Beaufort departure climb and maintain one zero thousand.”

“Lime22, one zero thousand. Brakes...rolling....rolling....rolling....now!”
 
Most fields give us “cleared for takeoff, switch to departure” at the hold short. The “no switches below 2500’” remark is probably in response to the SFA (single frequency approach”); however, I think that’s only while on an instrument approach, as I’ve definitely gotten the switch while on the visual arrival. In IMC, I’ve had “contact tower” inside the FAF and “contact tower on the rollout”, so it’s definitely not standardized that I can tell (maybe on a military airfield only?).

Usually internal comms on ATC freq are usually reserved for if an aircraft is single-comm, meaning one radio (of the two onboard) on one of the aircraft is inop. The caveat to that is if you get a freq change from ATC, often times the flight lead will add “flight GO” into his response to ATC to avoid having to say it on his aux radio (tactical freq that his flight using for internal comms). You’ll also often hear the flight check into a freq too: “Doodad 11” “Doodad 12” “Dept Doodad checking in flight level umpty-fratz” to make sure the wingman made the switch to the proper freq .

As far as if it’s easier to change freqs on military aircraft radios than it used to be, it really depends on the aircraft. Some aircraft require you to change the freqs on the radios themselves (toggles switches under each digit), in the AV-8, you can change the freq using the keypad (“upfront control”) on the HUD.
 
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Regarding contacting departure on the roll, I think that is probably aircraft specific too. In the AV-8, we’d do a “deck check” with dept before releasing brakes. In the T-45, we don’t. May have to do with climb out performance difference between the two.
 
Banjo33 said:
Most fields give us “cleared for takeoff, switch to departure” at the hold short. The “no switches below 2500’” remark is probably in response to the SFA (single frequency approach”); however, I think that’s only while on an instrument approach, as I’ve definitely gotten the switch while on the visual arrival. In IMC, I’ve had “contact tower” inside the FAF and “contact tower on the rollout”, so it’s definitely not standardized that I can tell (maybe on a military airfield only?).

Usually internal comms on ATC freq are usually reserved for if an aircraft is single-comm, meaning one radio (of the two onboard) on one of the aircraft is inop. The caveat to that is if you get a freq change from ATC, often times the flight lead will add “flight GO” into his response to ATC to avoid having to say it on his aux radio (tactical freq that his flight using for internal comms). You’ll also often hear the flight check into a freq too: “Doodad 11” “Doodad 12” “Dept Doodad checking in flight level umpty-fratz” to make sure the wingman made the switch to the proper freq .

As far as if it’s easier to change freqs on military aircraft radios than it used to be, it really depends on the aircraft. Some aircraft require you to change the freqs on the radios themselves (toggles switches under each digit), in the AV-8, you can change the freq using the keypad (“upfront control”) on the HUD.
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The 2500 rule is specifically for departures. SFA has no particular altitude or distance criteria on when to get on the ‘final’ frequency other than have it done before transfer of control to the Final Controller. But yeah, it’s all about the same thing, no frequency changes for the pilot during critical phases of flight.
What I usually remember hearing on check in was simply one word from the elements. Like “three”, “two”, “four”, then lead would Check in with the usual call sign and altitude.
At Lemoore we’d put TACAN Approaches on GCA frequencies and give them to a Final Controller even if the Pilot didn’t want a GCA. They’d just monitor the Approach and give the pilot landing clearance when they got it from the Tower. End result was the same as a GCA as far as frequency changes go.
 
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luvflyin said:
The 2500 rule is specifically for departures. SFA has no particular altitude or distance criteria on when to get on the ‘final’ frequency other than have it done before transfer of control to the Final Controller. But yeah, it’s all about the same thing, no frequency changes for the pilot during critical phases of flight.
What I usually remember hearing on check in was simply one word from the elements. Like “three”, “two”, “four”, then lead would Check in with the usual call sign and altitude.
At Lemoore we’d put TACAN Approaches on GCA frequencies and give them to a Final Controller even if the Pilot didn’t want a GCA. They’d just monitor the Approach and give the pilot landing clearance when they got it from the Tower. End result was the same as far as frequency changes go.
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We always tried to keep it to a minimum for single seat tactical at any altitude but the only time that I know of the book mentioning it, is in arrivals. IFR or night at that.

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There’s really no absolutes when it comes to the flight talking over ATC freqs. Some flights I noticed they checked in over the freq, while others didn’t. Like Banjo was saying, it’s aircraft dependent and probably a lot to do with different unit SOPs. Worked the Blue Angels on approach and they all checked in with their personal calllsigns. That was a little different.
 
Velocity173 said:
We always tried to keep it to a minimum for single seat tactical at any altitude but the only time that I know of the book mentioning it, is in arrivals. IFR or night at that.

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There’s really no absolutes when it comes to the flight talking over ATC freqs. Some flights I noticed they checked in over the freq, while others didn’t. Like Banjo was saying, it’s aircraft dependent and probably a lot to do with different unit SOPs. Worked the Blue Angels on approach and they all checked in with their personal calllsigns. That was a little different.
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Ah, there it is. There is a ‘keep it to a minimum’ criteria of 2500
 
Velocity173 said:
Yep. And the switch to departure on the ground.

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There it is. Why some Towers may seem to make a lot of radio checks on Guard. Probably once a shift or something like that. They may need to rely on it to issue control instructions. Somewhere I think is a ‘hard’ limit of 2500 for frequency changes on departures. It says don’t do it, unlike the ‘avoid’ it for arrivals.
 
AKBill said:
So I monitor 121.5 when flying on com 2. Heard something a little different today. It went something like this.

"Anchorage center Alaska Flight xxx on Guard 121.5"

"Can't pick up anchorage center on XXX.XX, is there another frequency?"

It was a strange request on a frequency I did not expect that type of communication.

Is 121.5 (Guard) used as an information frequency at flight levels?
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This is very common, especially in more remote areas with obstacles. You'd be surprised how much you'll hear it in Albuquerque Center's airspace.

Timbeck2 said:
On another note, one would be surprised at how many controllers assume pilots have their radios tuned to 121.5.
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Timbeck2 said:
That's not why they assume it and I have yet to meet a pilot with 121.5 tuned on the radio in a tower environment. Usually they'll have approach and tower or tower and ground etc.
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I was taught to always monitor 121.5 outside the terminal environment. In a busy terminal environment, like SoCal or NorCal approach airspafe, it is not particularly feasible to listen to guard with a Comm 2, both because of the distracting clutter on that frequency and because of the high volume of radio calls, plus the need to listen to ATIS, etc. Once I get outside such busy areas, I set 121.5 in comm 2 and monitor.
 
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