In September of '24 I became the proud owner of a Bellanca Super Viking. After logging only 10 hours in the plane, I became the victim of a left main gear collapse upon touchdown @ KBXK in October. After replacing the major damaged components, flap, aileron and pitot tube, and taping over the road rash. The plane was ferried to Mars Aviation Santa Paula, CA with gear down. Although the repairs are not yet complete, Dan Torrey has reported that the gear actuator pump motor brushes were, "completely gone"! If you have one of these classic planes, do you know the condition of these relatively cheap but necessary parts? In your annual inspection, does the mechanic simply cycle the gear and call it "good", all the while, your gear motor brushes could be on the verge of failure? In my case, and I'm just guessing, having a mechanic R&R the gear actuator motor and replace the brushes could not have cost $500 but would have saved more than $20,000!
Heads up BSV owners
- Thread starter JimJ
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bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hard lessons of ownership. I have many such stories.....
You'll find it boils down to what the owner wants in the inspection. The majority only want an inspection to the minimum under 43 Appx D which would give you that basic result. For the owners who want more detail, and are willing to pay for it, they request the use of OEM inspection guides that would usually require inspecting those motor brushes. Regardless, this has been an ongoing discussion topic for years. Perhaps PM @Rob58 here for some tips or pointers on what inspection guides to use for your BSV since he owns Bellanca Aircraft Company. Good luck.
I had that happen a year after buying the plane. Same cause: worn brushes on the gear pump motor. Alternator failed last year for same reason: brushes. Thankfully my outcome was less costly!
Personally, as a seller, I'd be less enthusiastic about people opening up all the motors to check their internals. I'd be understanding if logs show the unit hasn't been serviced in a long time -- but if I can show reasonably recent log book entries that it was serviced/overhauled/repaired/etc, I think that should cut it personally. The more items they take apart, the more items they need to reassemble to put humpty-dumpty back together. And unless it's my A&P or one that I trust, I don't want them touching any more components than they have to.
Rob58
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Hi Jim, sounds like Dan is doing a very thorough job for you. Sadly not all mechanics have that much experience with the Prestolite pumps. Please give me a call at your convenience and let's catch up. Been a while since we spoke. --Rob
jimhorner
Line Up and Wait
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Pretty sure I saw your wing last weekend when I went to pick up my plane from its annual. Dan was sanding away on it. Doubt if you'll be able to tell where the repair is; Dan does great work.
Question for you: Did you know something was wrong before landing? Three greens, no red with the collapse being your first indication? Or did you not get the three greens indication?
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Question for you: Did you know something was wrong before landing? Three greens, no red with the collapse being your first indication? Or did you not get the three greens indication?
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Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don't fully understand (I used to have a BSV, albeit engine-driven hydraulic pump) in any case - how did bad brushes cause this incident? (if that is what is being said)
I don't think the pump is even running after the gear is down and full hydraulic pressure is achieved.
If the brushes fail, does not the gear stop its downward motion, and no three-green?
I don't think the pump is even running after the gear is down and full hydraulic pressure is achieved.
If the brushes fail, does not the gear stop its downward motion, and no three-green?
jimhorner
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That's why I asked my question also. Once you have the three green, the gear should be down and locked, and I don't believe the pump is needed anymore. But one never knows. Maybe a limit switch hadn't been shutting the pump off?
BTW, I've had my Viking for almost 13 years now.
There's always something that can surprise you. The scissor link on my left main broke in November after landing. Left gear rotated 180°. I was lucky it didn't stop at 90° and rip itself out of the wing. Dan said he'd never seen anything like that before. no clue what could have caused that.
Hey Rob!
I tried to call you yesterday but you must have been busy. Thanks.
First, there was an issue with the gear not retracting. Then after a few minutes of flying outside the pattern, the gear did retract. upon re-entering the pattern, with the gear switch down, the red light remained on and the green lights corresponding to the mains were lit but not the light for the nose gear. After once again departing the pattern for some higher G maneuvers as well as the emergency extension procedure, the lights remained as they were, showing mains but not the nose gear. Then during a "low pass", a pilot on the ground reported that it appeared that the nose gear was down and "in position". That's when the decision was made to land. The touchdown was not a "perfect greased it" landing as the ensuing attempt to hold the nose off as long as possible since it did not have the green light, caused a slight lightening of the load on the wheels.
I say it that way because it wasn't a bounce. Then as the weight returned to the wheels is when the left main folded and the rest is history.
Please explain; How does the system build pressure without the pump running?
Same question: How does the system build pressure without the pump running?
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
I'm no expert, but I believe that when gear down is selected, the pump runs and pressure is directed to the down actuators. After the gear is down, the pump continues to run a little while, until the shutoff pressure is reached - then the pressure switch shuts off the pump.
That's all good but my question was, "How can the system build pressure without the pump running?"
Meaning if the brushes have worn to the point of non-existence, as Dan reported, the motor won't run and not drive the pump so the system pressure cannot rise. Therefore there may not be enough pressure to force the gear past "overcenter". That is a term that would interchange with the word, "locked". The gear doesn't actually lock, it is supposed to be held overcenter by spring pressure which requires 350+psi in the hydraulic system to overcome. An interesting side note is; The right main is designed to go about twice as far overcenter than the left main. That might have something to do with my seeing more left main incidents than right. Since at this time, the left wing is off the plane for repairs, the gear investigation will have to wait. So, until Dan tells me otherwise, I'm thinking that without the pump running, gravity and wind caused the mains to
come down and the combination of the emergency extension procedure with some higher G maneuvers caused the nose gear to drop into place and go overcenter along with the right main. Although it was down, I don't believe the left main got that far. Never made it overcenter and that's why it flopped back up into the retracted position. That leaves a question about, "Why did the mains have green lights lit but not the nose gear?" Thankfully, the nose gear held the prop off the ground even without a green light. It could be that somewhere in the last 49 years, the nose gear light wire became mistakenly crossed the the light wire of the left main. Just a theory at this point.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
I know nothing about Super Vikings, but I do know their gear is something that requires attention. We had one at our airport once collapse while parked on the FBO ramp. The owner flew in, left for a couple hours, came back and found the one main partially retracted and was sitting on the wingtip.