Hate LM service? Take the survey and let em have it

The AOPA AFSS survey is

  • a good sign that our FSS troubles may be heard.

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • a good way to gather our input and complaints to present to the powers that be.

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • a pointless waste of our time. The LM outsourcing contract cannot be unwound.

    Votes: 11 45.8%

  • on a par with the Strawberry Statement.

    Votes: 1 4.2%

  • brought to you by Lockheed Martin.

    Votes: 7 29.2%
  • Total voters
    24
OK, I did the survey!

Yesterday is the very first time in the years I've been flying that a briefer ever insisted I convert times from eastern to zulu. And she clearly didn't know anything about Philly area airports.

Life was good until they shut down the Williamsport FSS...
 
I'd like a survey on the survey so I may voice my displeasure with the survey. Survey's are useless. They just filter out the negative, present the positive, and say "See!?! It works!!"
 
AWACSEng said:
I'd like a survey on the survey so I may voice my displeasure with the survey. Survey's are useless. They just filter out the negative, present the positive, and say "See!?! It works!!"
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I think we a survey on your suggestion :D
 
Hey now. Many a dumb copilot has survived to become an aircraft commander thanks to the professionalism, mentorship, and just plain old know how of the trusty flight engineer.
 
Took the survey.

A couple weeks ago or maybe even a month ago I called the complaint line and left my complaint about excessive hold times, briefer's lack of knowledge of the computer system, and trouble opening my flight plan - no one would answer my radio calls. So a couple days ago somebody finally emailed me a response.

Dear Mr. Kreager,

We received your complaint about file and opening your flight plan. We are sorry for this problem you encountered. We are continually upgrading our equipment and processes to better serve the pilots. We have had major software updates in the last two weeks to help with lost flight plans and numerous other problems.

We hope you will continue to use our services and if you have further problems please let us know.

Ida Champion
Lockheed Martin


From Ken's story, it sounds like their major software updates must have worked! :no:
 
bkreager said:
We are continually upgrading our equipment and processes to better serve the pilots. We have had major software updates in the last two weeks to help with lost flight plans and numerous other problems.
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Ugh... They just don't get it.

SOFTWARE and PROCESSES do not make good FSS. PEOPLE make good FSS.

It's quite obvious these days when calling LockMart when you get an "old" briefer or a "new" briefer. The "old" briefer will give you a thorough and well-informed analysis of the current situation and the likely developments along your route of flight, providing some very valuable insight that's gotten me where I'm going safely a lot more than once.

The new briefers read you the TAF's along your route (saw those already, no thanks) and similar uselessness. On my way out of Gaston's this summer, the operator (I can't call him a briefer) exclaimed THREE TIMES over the course of the briefing that "the airmet for IFR has expired, but the METAR still shows the field as being IFR, I just don't understand???" :rolleyes: Well genius, the METAR says what it does 'cuz it's RIGHT! And the airmet wasn't! Is that so difficult to get?

The worst part is the new guys will never get the chance to get better. Sure, you could say that under the gov't-run FSS system we had lots of "wasted" manpower keeping all those stations open all night (IIRC, minimum complement was 4 people on duty), but the reason the old briefers are so good is that when they were sitting there at 3 AM "doing nothing" they were actually able to watch weather develop and learn about it. In the profit-driven LockMart system, it's a call-center environment and there is no free time to be watching the weather, so it's likely to simply get worse as the good old briefers retire.

:(
 
Safety is in jeopardy as is our licenses when we bust something because these guys can't answer in under 15 minutes or the briefing is little more of a reading. On the 6 calls in the past month, I've hung up 3 times AFTER 15 minutes or more of waiting. The last call was answered in under 5 minutes and more like the old service in terms of the QUALITY of the brief.
LM will eventually make money since they won't have to staff the call centers. We'll just stop calling. Hope DUAT(S) doesn't turn to junk!
 
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silver-eagle said:
LM will eventually make money since they won't have to staff the call centers. We'll just stop calling. Hope DUAT(S) doesn't turn to junk!
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Well, as you're probably aware, the DUAT(S) system was scheduled to go away with LM taking that over too, but someone had the sense to extend the contract. I don't think it was extended for more than a year, though! That gives the vendors very little incentive to keep it up-to-date and respond to data format changes coming from NWS and others. There was a thread here recently about the differences between the graphical representations of airmets between DUAT(S) and www.aviationweather.gov that speaks to that.

It's getting so the best briefing you can get is one you do yourself with unofficial sources, and then you play CYA with an "official" (read "substandard") briefing. One of the reasons we got a 496!
 
DUAT(S) in it's simple form has been around for many years. I remember accessing it via 2400 baud modem. So simple, hopefully LM can't screw it up. The advantage of the two current carriers are the flight planning software that goes with them. (Golden Eagle's latest update though does need work. NDBs, VORs, and waypoints in the middle of oceans or elsewhere where they shouldn't exist.)
I just want a safe LEGAL flight. Whatever I need to do, I'll do. But LM just has to get better!
 
gprellwitz said:
It's getting so the best briefing you can get is one you do yourself with unofficial sources, and then you play CYA with an "official" (read "substandard") briefing. One of the reasons we got a 496!
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I agree. Anymore, the only reason I call is to get it on record that I did get a briefing. The briefings themselves are now useless.:mad:
 
AWACSEng said:
I'd like a survey on the survey so I may voice my displeasure with the survey. Survey's are useless. They just filter out the negative, present the positive, and say "See!?! It works!!"
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Eggs Zackary...

This one is only for persons that have used FS in the last 30 days...

Why not ask why people don't use FS at all any more and why they decided to stop... I feel excluded...
 
Sleek-Jet said:
Eggs Zackary...

This one is only for persons that have used FS in the last 30 days...

Why not ask why people don't use FS at all any more and why they decided to stop... I feel excluded...
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I'm just thankful that my local rental place has speakerphones. 5+ minutes. Bah.
 
I just got an email from ole Phil asking me to take a survey. I don't think this one will pass muster, either.
 
I used them 3 times this week. From home, Del Rio, TX and Alpine, TX. All waits <5 minutes, 3 good, knowledgeable, friendly briefers. What's the problem?
 
The Old Man said:
I used them 3 times this week. From home, Del Rio, TX and Alpine, TX. All waits <5 minutes, 3 good, knowledgeable, friendly briefers. What's the problem?
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Consistency. I used to get Macon all the time and occasionally Nashville. At least the latter is more familiar with my area and terrain; certainly unlike a briefer from Montana or Utah which has happen.

I'm told now I should only get Macon or Sarasota, FL. Even there, do you think a briefer in South Florida understands the terrain and usual activity over North Georgia? I'd like the ability to call my nearest FSS directly. That's been taken away.

On a recent return, I canceled the flight plan in the air during approach. I was called by Lockheed two hours later asking for me and verifying I made it on the ground. The odd part was he said it looked like it should have been canceled two hours earlier. So, they received the order to cancel but it wasn't done. Thankfully, SAR wasn't initiated after the usual thirty minutes.
 
How many times have you called FSS on the radio in the past 30 days? 0, I haven't flow XC since July 29. Oops, we don't want to hear from you.

July 27 they wouldn't answer the radio so I could open my flight plan. And I tried a number of times. July 29 on the other side of the state they answered on the first call, plus on call ups to update and cancel the plan on the west side.

Inconsistent is the term I would use for that experience.

Don't know about now.

So far, I'm not impressed.
 
KennyFlys said:
Consistency. I used to get Macon all the time and occasionally Nashville. At least the latter is more familiar with my area and terrain; certainly unlike a briefer from Montana or Utah which has happen.

I'm told now I should only get Macon or Sarasota, FL. Even there, do you think a briefer in South Florida understands the terrain and usual activity over North Georgia? I'd like the ability to call my nearest FSS directly. That's been taken away.

On a recent return, I canceled the flight plan in the air during approach. I was called by Lockheed two hours later asking for me and verifying I made it on the ground. The odd part was he said it looked like it should have been canceled two hours earlier. So, they received the order to cancel but it wasn't done. Thankfully, SAR wasn't initiated after the usual thirty minutes.
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SAR was initiated... the first step is to attempt to contact the pilot... but they probably couldn't get a working phone for two hours... :rolleyes:

They just found you quicker then they are finding Fossett...
 
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