Hangar vs Tie Down

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by tspear, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    As I was landing today, passing all the jets and a few planes tied down, I had a few random thoughts:
    • As a percentage of value, a hangar for a jet is a lot less then the hangar for a most piston planes. Especially the older planes.
    • Most jets are parked outside.
    • In large metro markets, a T-Hangar for a piston plane runs 600-1000 a month. An outside tie down is 100-300.
    • A good plane cover about to cover the whole plane is about 2K.
    • Putting the plane in/out of the hangar is 20 minute task. Especially when you add time waiting for the fuel truck before you put the plane away.
    • A new paint job on most piston singles is 10K

    When you crunch the numbers, T-Hangars do not make much financial sense. You could re-paint, reseal, fix any issues within a couple of years of savings.
    The only things I can foresee a hangar being useful for is dealing with a frozen plane, or baking in the sun. If this problem can be solved, why would we continue to pay for hangars?

    At the same time I ask these questions, I can almost guarantee when I buy another plane, it is going in a hangar, and dam the cost. Any one else stuck in this same conundrum?

    Tim
     
  2. Vaflier

    Vaflier Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That would be me. Love my hangar !!!!. Dont have to drag my tools all over the place and try to work on my plane in the wind, rain,sun. Have a fridge and recliner in the hangar. All my tools stay there. Can let friends use it for repairs and annual inspections. They often thank me by buying me tools I do not already have. Spent the day taking my plane apart for annual and my wife was not there to nag me ( priceless ), got a lot done with friends coming in to help. Would do it again in a heartbeat.
     
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  3. fudge80

    fudge80 Pre-Flight

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    Where I'm at I don't think a plane would be lucky enough to survive 1-2 years parked on the ramp. Between high winds, hail, yearly temperature swings of 150 degrees and the occasional tornado it would play heck with a plane outside.
     
  4. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    I'd be right there with you if I could find a hangar for rent in SoCal. Sadly, all that's available is a tie-down and a wait list for a hangar.

    Having said that, I would ask: Why park your car in a garage instead of on the street? For me, I could repaint the car, but I sure don't want to. And I like that I can work on the car in a secure location and it'll be exactly as I left it if I have to take a break from working on it. For me, this applies to airplanes as well. If I want to detail my aircraft, or do an oil change, I can do that in a hangar. And if I want to leave the cowling off overnight while I work on something, I can do that too. But if tied-down, I doubt the airport manager would be keen to see me do an oil change at a tie-down spot, and I am pretty certain that any tools I leave out overnight won't be there in the morning.
     
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  5. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    Like all else, it depends.

    If I were in San Fran, LA, or NY I'd probably be in a tie down.

    Fortunately, I'm in Fort Worth and I've got a hangar that is "reasonable" with enough space for my plane, golf cart, and office, and whole bunch of other stuffs.

    If I were to move, I'd be considering distance and cost of a simple T in the equation.
     
  6. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route PoA Supporter

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    A place to work on the plane and store aviation tools and supplies. Can't envision dragging an extension cord out to the plane to keep the battery charged up, or buffing/polishing. Snow, ice accumulation. Plus, the camaraderie of talking with and helping your hangarmates.

    But you're right in the sense that $600/mo is a lot of juice to consider. $200, no brainier.
     
  7. wayne

    wayne Cleared for Takeoff

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    Plus, with a hangar you get to park the car inside while you are on a trip. Makes loading and unloading in the rain much nicer. Plugging in the engine warmer on cold mornings. Makes changing the oil nicer, especially when it's hot/cold/rainy.

    Hangars are great to store aviation stuff. From tools, to oil, life jackets, cover, and lots more

    Hangars are really nice.



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  8. chartbundle

    chartbundle Cleared for Takeoff

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    I live on the coast, there are no hangars available at the airport across the street from me, but I'd happily pay 2-3x more than I do for a hangar an hour drive away from me right now. I'd never have an airplane outside here, and except for visitors I almost never see any. Humidity and ocean spray would be major problems. Winds during storms regularly hit 40KTS with 70KTS happening a couple times a year.
     
  9. RudyP

    RudyP Line Up and Wait

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    I'm in the process of moving from Columbus OH ($200 /month T hangar) to San Diego ($1000 /month T hangar). It's a bummer but I will pay that to have the convenience of protecting my airplane, keeping stuff safe and easily accessible and having a place to relax and have a drink after a flight.

    Technically I could probably live in a tent or RV but I choose to spend the money on a nicer permanent home - same goes for the hangar. It may not be 100% rational but neither is owning an airplane and I like both!
     
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  10. GaryV

    GaryV Pre-takeoff checklist

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    My airport just raised the hanger rent after 10 years from $180 a month to $200. We're just south of Houston at KLBX. There is a waiting list but I happened to hit a sweet spot when I bought my plane. I got the hanger three weeks before the plane

    Gary
     
  11. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer En-Route

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    I found one pretty quickly at Cable...generous T-hangar goes for $338/mo. It's a 50-minute drive there from my place in South Orange County (on a good day), but sooooo worth it. Another bonus for us VFR-only guys is that it's far enough inland to avoid the marine layer on most days.

    Hardly...grab a tow bar and push. Five minutes tops, and that includes unlocking and rolling open the hangar doors. I always use the self-serve pumps, so no waiting on the fuel guy. So nice to get a cold drink from the fridge, turn on the radio, sit on the hangar couch and make my logbook entry. Then I hop on the hangar scooter and blast around the airport to cool down a little after the flight and visit friends, watch some landings, etc.
     
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  12. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    Paint jobs are more than 10K. The dispatch logistics of re-painting an aircraft is also pretty crummy. That said, I couldn't justify more than 250 bucks a month on my airplane's insured hull value. For me, geographic location has to be compatible with affordable and proximate access to my airplane, otherwise it's a non-starter. Not everybody, I'd argue most, have the luxury of placing their hobby as a competing interest in their homesteading choices. Especially so when it comes to the added demands of dependents and spouses.

    It's a crummy situation all around, the hangar quagmire in this Country.
     
  13. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    There is no waiting list for hangers in Juneau all hangers are owned by folks. From time to time there is hanger space rented out, normally around $400/mo. "T" hangers sell for around $80,000 and you lease the spot the hanger is on from the airport. I tie down for $60/mo. Would love to own or rent hanger space for all the reasons already posted but I just don't have the cash.....:(
     
  14. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route

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    Since when does ANY of this make financial sense?

    I was on a tie down for three years while on hangar wait list. Man it was a PITA. I do a lot of traveling and XC trips and the ability to just push the plane in now and close the door without worrying about securing, covering, closing up, cowel plugs, pulling headsets, pulling stratus, pulling iPad and deal with it all later sometimes is priceless!

    Plus sitting in your car next to the plane on the ramp is not nearly as cool as hangin on your couch next to the plane in your hangar!
     
  15. JCranford

    JCranford Pattern Altitude

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    It's not even a consideration for me. I spent a lot of money for an airplane I really like. No way am I leaving it on the ramp in Texas to get hailed on and baked in the sun.
     
  16. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    You guys are lucky; I guess I have always been stuck with old T-Hangars where it takes a solid three minutes to open or close the hangar door. Plus pulling the car out, plugging in the tow.... It all adds up. I can beat 20 minutes, but not by a lot from the time I shutdown the engine till the car door closes and I pull away.

    I rarely do the log book at the airport. Most of the time, at home. I use a tiny notebook to make my IFR notes, I just bring that home and make the entries.
    Except for oil and a tug; I did not store anything in the hangar. Now I fly out of an airport with SIDA access, so no real chance to drive around and hang out with others. Much more business/transaction focused.

    Tim
     
  17. John221us

    John221us En-Route

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    Your money and your choice. I pay about $350 for a hangar vs $50 for a tie down and would not consider it. I keep a lot of stuff there (cleaning supplies, tools, compressor). I really like having a hangar. Getting in and out is much quicker than a tie down and covering a plane (hint; I don't tie down in a hangar or cover the plane). As mentioned, paint jobs around here are probably double your estimate.
     
  18. Dana

    Dana Line Up and Wait

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    I wish I could get a "real" hangar. The elements aren't kind to fabric covered planes. As it is I make do with a "covered tiedown", meaning the hangar doors got so bad that the airport owner just removed them and charged less. The T-hangars on the other side of the field cost twice as much and are all full with a waiting list.
     
  19. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Depends on where you live, lots of places in the us it's a couple hundred a month and is quite useful to have for more than just storing your plane

    Add to that the security from not only people, but animals, other aircraft, cars, etc, I just ask too much of my plane to treat it like a hooptie car.

    Also if it takes almost half a hour to move your plane into the hanger.....
     
  20. Glenn D

    Glenn D Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Here in So Cal, there are hangers open at KEMT... but at $550 and up, it is out of my reach.... I tie down outside for $60 per month.... No working on the plane at the tie downs!... Today I changed the oil, after first going off to a corner, out of sight.... and forgot some tools, and the pickup screen gasket!.. 3 trips home to get stuff that would have sure been nice to have on a shelf in a hanger... but at that hanger cost, in 3 3//4 years, I could replace my airplane..... it just is not in the cards. now for $335 at cable, that looks interesting!,
     
  21. Datadriver

    Datadriver Line Up and Wait

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    Hail = game over
     
  22. MD11Pilot

    MD11Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    In the Austin Texas/Central Texas area, hangars are a very rare commodity. I was fortunate enough to get into a T Hangar at GTU from a private company that has since "sold" the hangars to the city. I use the hangar to for the plane and a lot of my tools/equipment and work on my plane there. I almost partnered on a plane there that has been tied down for the last ten years and had to clean out several large wasp nests from the tail and I am sure the wings were filled with nests of birds and wasps. The paint is so baked that a professional aircraft detail-er said that it was a waste of his time and my money to try to recover any shine.
    The last annual before I became involved was $9000 and mainly due to the replacement of some major components of the fuel system due to water. I suggested to the other potential owner that we replace the fuel caps with Monarchs and he said they cost too much. ?????? I had my T Hangar already so while we were negotiating a partnership and I was renting the airplane I kept it in the hangar and started trying to inspect and repair things. I commented that I got dirty water out of one of the tanks every time I checked it and the owner asked how much? I said about a fourth of a tester cup and he said "That's nothing, I usually get about a pint to a quart". My wife was not happy with the idea of a partnership and especially this one. I backed out. The long term cost of the wear and tear of sun baking, weather exposure (Central Texas...we do get some nasty storms and hail here) would probably be close to what the hangar costs. The $9000 dollar annual equaled almost two years in the hangar.
    We purchased a Bonanza and honestly we would not have it if I had to keep it outside. It is too large of an investment and I love it too much to do that to it.
     
  23. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Once I switched to a hangar (mine was a ways out from the DC Metro and hence only ran about $230, no heat but did include electrical), I'd never go back.

    Now I have a heated hangar, hot and cold running water, and all I have to do is walk up the stairs to my living room.
     
  24. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    Crunching the numbers, very little of what I have makes financial sense. Anyway, resale value is something to think about if you think that may happen someday.
     
  25. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

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    A cheap hangar in Anchorage is $500K. A nice one, and a couple are available, are $1 mil. My outdoor tiedown at a state airport is $50 per month. No restrictions on working on the plane or self-fueling. Alaska weather is sometimes harsh but our UV index is low. Parking outside has worked for me for 25 years and counting. I'll spend that hangar money on better things that offer much better returns on investment.
     
  26. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Curious, how do you deal with the winter weather in terms of cleaning the plane off, or just starting it.

    Tim
     
  27. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

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    Wing and tail covers. Reiff preheat powered by a portable generator.
     
  28. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Did not think of the portable generator. Hmm, I wonder if I can pull that off here....

    Tim
     
  29. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    Glad the wife cleans the plane off when I'm working. We do fly in the winter just takes a bit of work to get it ready to fly.
     

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  30. coloradobluesky

    coloradobluesky En-Route Gone West

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    I looked a Husky the same age as mine (1996) that has been tied down on the ramp. Lots a sun damage. Cosmetically it needs new paint and maybe fabric, new windows and new plastic. But, its still flyable. In Colorado its mostly sun damage. But the chance of a hailstorm are not insignifigant.
     
  31. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Pattern Altitude

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    As others have already mentioned, I view a hangar as invaluable.
    • When I land all I have to do is push a button to raise the door, hook up the power tug and push it in then walk away (total time 5 minutes)
    • The airplane is always in the exact same condition I left it and when I near the airport I call for fuel and the truck is there when the door opens for a quick top off if needed
    • No worries about covers, waiting for the engines to cool down to put in plugs, etc
    • No worries about someone tampering with my plane
    • No worries about wind/hail damage or water getting in the gas tanks
    • Less wx/sun = less wear on the paint/corrosion issues
    • I have couches, tables, refrigerator (cold drinks for post flight), and TV for the kids to watch during pre-flight
    • No worries about removing snow and ice
    • Nice climate controlled environment to work on the plane with all my tools handy
    • Being able to do a nice pre-flight with lights for night or in the heat during winter
    I lucked out as hangars are pretty expensive in the Chicago area by being able to buy a hangar at ARR (equity vs renting) as they are the only place in the Chicago area I know of where you can own vs rent. While I know there are some places in the country where it's almost impossible to hangar, I feel that if you have the possibility of getting in one, it is well worth it.
     
  32. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    Hail would be a killer. We get a lot of rain and snow here, 2 thunderstorms in 20 years, a small amount sleet but no hail thank god....
     
  33. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    The only way to live...:)
     
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  34. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I use a group hangar in Florida sept to June,when up north intie down outside,with full covers. Can't afford a hangar ,if I could find one in the Boston area.
     
  35. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    Hangars here are $75-$125 a month. It'd be stupid for me not to. Now I'm trying to get out of this damn community hangar and into a T-hangar...
     
  36. Axtel4

    Axtel4 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Here in the Midwest, definitely a hanger. The aircraft are subjected to fewer elements.

    Our club had planes on tiedowns for about 10 years before getting into a hangar. During that time we suffered almost $20k total in environmental damage to the aircraft. Though covered by insurance, we were still out of pocket for the deductibles and the loss revenue for being in for repairs.


    One had hail damage, one had wind damage that yanked the tail tie down out of the airframe, and one that had major wind damage to an aileron and control links and to a door. These were from different storm events over the years.

    In the above instances, a cover and control locks did no good in preventing damage.
     
  37. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    And how much is the annual cost of the hangars now?
    If more then $2K total for all planes per year; you are spending more than you are saving.

    Tim
     
  38. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    100% agree with the merits of hangaring, but driving 50 minutes one-way to get to a hangar vs. the ongoing environmental costs of tie downs, is a distinction without a difference to me. A Pitts I take for a loop once a week for 20 minutes and otherwise never leave the pattern in? Maybe. A family XC cruiser? Non-starter.
     
  39. Twin_Flyer

    Twin_Flyer Cleared for Takeoff

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    The piece of mind is worth it alone... It took me 10 months to get my hanger and during that time I was a wreck every time weather came through and I don't want to even talk about the birds...:mad2: My stress level dropped tremendously after I got in the hangar...:cheers:
     
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  40. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    IMHO, if a plane is worth flying it is worth taking care of. Paint is not the only part of a plane that deteriorates in the weather.

    I am extremely fortunate to finally have a 65 x 65 hangar. I keep both my planes and sublet to a friend for a third of the rent. A hangar is much more than a place to get a plane out of the weather. It serves to keep it and tools/equipment secure as well as a place to have a party and socialize with hangar neighbors.

    When I bought my first plane I made the decision that if I could not put it in a covered space at a bare ninimum, I would not buy the airplane.

    I wince when I see REALLY nice, hangared all their lives airplanes bought and tied outside to rot into the ground. Don't get me wrong. It is the owners money and their plane to do with as they choose, but to see super nice examples left in the weather just makes me sad. It would seem that the overall situation would be taken into account when making a purchase decision.

    My $0.02,
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
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