Handgun Questions (split thread)

[gibbons]

Re: Handgun question.

I'm not a gun enthusiast, but I'm not anti-gun either. I am curious about a few things:

How do you go about getting a carry permit? Does it differ from state to state?

Do you folks with carry permits carry a gun around with you all the time, or is it usually just to carry a loaded one in the car?

If you have a loaded gun in the car and you get pulled over (say, for speeding), do you inform the officer?

Years ago a friend of mine showed me his home/car protection. It was a double barrel 410 pistol. He called it a "snake charmer". I got the distinct impression that it wasn't legal, but for home protection it made a lot of sense. Are these available and are they legal?

For home protection, which type of hand gun is safer: a revolver with a speed loader near by, or a semi-automatic with the clip out and nearby? Better asked, what is the safest way to keep a handgun nearby in the house, but also be as safe as possible with young or teenaged children?

Chip

 

[Anthony]

Re: Handgun question.

I'm not a gun enthusiast, but I'm not anti-gun either. I am curious about a few things:

How do you go about getting a carry permit? Does it differ from state to state?

It variesfrom state to state. Some states its impossible to get a carry permit, mostly northeast and west coast. Other states require you to take a handgun safety course, some don't. ALL do a criminal background check. If you have any record at all, no permit.

Do you folks with carry permits carry a gun around with you all the time, or is it usually just to carry a loaded one in the car?

It depends what I'm doing and where I am going, but you can never tell when you need it, so I err on the side of carrying it most of the time. Bad things can happen in nice neighborhoods or upscale areas.

If you have a loaded gun in the car and you get pulled over (say, for speeding), do you inform the officer?

Its never happened to me, but in PA and CO where I have permits, you are only required to inform the officer if they ask. You do not have to volunteer that you have a permit and are armed.

Years ago a friend of mine showed me his home/car protection. It was a double barrel 410 pistol. He called it a "snake charmer". I got the distinct impression that it wasn't legal, but for home protection it made a lot of sense. Are these available and are they legal?

I'm not familiar with this weapon.

For home protection, which type of hand gun is safer: a revolver with a speed loader near by, or a semi-automatic with the clip out and nearby? Better asked, what is the safest way to keep a handgun nearby in the house, but also be as safe as possible with young or teenaged children?

It depends on the level of training you get and the amount of training you are willing to do on an ongoing basis to stay proficient. I would not keep guns unlaoded for self defense purposes. There are small single or double gun safes available where you can punch in a code quickly and get access. Only you know the code, so kids and criminals can't get it.

 

[poadeleted3]

Re: Handgun question.

I'm not a gun enthusiast, but I'm not anti-gun either. I am curious about a few things:

How do you go about getting a carry permit? Does it differ from state to state?

Varies from state to state. Some states do not permit their residents the right to carry tools to defend themselves. More and more, pushed by voters, have gone to a "shall issue" system. That means that if you pass a background check, the state must issue a carry permit.

Do you folks with carry permits carry a gun around with you all the time, or is it usually just to carry a loaded one in the car?

Cathy and I frequently carry ours, not always. Depends on how much a pain it would be. Walking the dog, always. Going to the gym, maybe not.

If you have a loaded gun in the car and you get pulled over (say, for speeding), do you inform the officer?

I would, though I haven't been pulled over. The officer will usually ask anyway.

Years ago a friend of mine showed me his home/car protection. It was a double barrel 410 pistol. He called it a "snake charmer". I got the distinct impression that it wasn't legal, but for home protection it made a lot of sense. Are these available and are they legal?

Yes, they are available. No, they aren't legal. No, they make no sense for protection, IMHO. Better off with an easier controlled pistol that won't land your butt in jail for using it.

For home protection, which type of hand gun is safer: a revolver with a speed loader near by, or a semi-automatic with the clip out and nearby? Better asked, what is the safest way to keep a handgun nearby in the house, but also be as safe as possible with young or teenaged children?

With a six y/o boy in the house, we've had to answer this question ourselves. The boy can figure out how to load the revolver with a speedloader, and he is strong enough to pull the trigger. The revolver is unloaded in the house now unless one of us is wearing it, and locked in the cabinet. The semi-auto we keep a magazine in for now, chamber empty. He cannot even budge the slide, and frankly I've usually got the gun on me in the house. So, I'm satisfied with the safety level that provides for now. As he grows, it'll also be locked when I'm not wearing the gun.

Best safety device around children is YOU, and the training YOU give them. Don't let the guns be a mystery to them. Let them look when they ask, and keep the safety rules simple: "If you find a gun, don't touch, tell an adult." Simple and easy to follow.

Sean has his own child sized .22. He can look at whenever he asks, and every time is accompanied by chats on gun safety. He learns to handle it safely, learns what to do, what not to do. He enjoys shooting it. He is also getting the "canteloupe or watermelon" demonstration in a couple weeks, so he can put a graphic image in his head to go with the lectures of what shooting Mommy or Daddy would mean. That demonstration is simple: you take the highest powered gun you can, and shoot something gooey at close range, something that will explode nicely. Works well with a face drawn on it, really drives the point home. Still, kids are kids. No matter how well they know the rules, they break them sometimes. That means we lock the guns, or keep them on us.

Chip

........

 

[Frank Browne]

Re: Handgun question.

I'm not a gun enthusiast, but I'm not anti-gun either. I am curious about a few things:

How do you go about getting a carry permit? Does it differ from state to state?

Do you folks with carry permits carry a gun around with you all the time, or is it usually just to carry a loaded one in the car?

If you have a loaded gun in the car and you get pulled over (say, for speeding), do you inform the officer?

Years ago a friend of mine showed me his home/car protection. It was a double barrel 410 pistol. He called it a "snake charmer". I got the distinct impression that it wasn't legal, but for home protection it made a lot of sense. Are these available and are they legal?

For home protection, which type of hand gun is safer: a revolver with a speed loader near by, or a semi-automatic with the clip out and nearby? Better asked, what is the safest way to keep a handgun nearby in the house, but also be as safe as possible with young or teenaged children?

Chip

Joe and Anthony answered your other questions but the .410 "pistol" is illegal for sure. Federal law requires a shotgun to have a barrell length of at least 18" with an overall length of at least 36".

 

[AirBaker]

Re: Handgun question.

I'm not a gun enthusiast, but I'm not anti-gun either. I am curious about a few things:

How do you go about getting a carry permit? Does it differ from state to state?

Do you folks with carry permits carry a gun around with you all the time, or is it usually just to carry a loaded one in the car?

If you have a loaded gun in the car and you get pulled over (say, for speeding), do you inform the officer?

Years ago a friend of mine showed me his home/car protection. It was a double barrel 410 pistol. He called it a "snake charmer". I got the distinct impression that it wasn't legal, but for home protection it made a lot of sense. Are these available and are they legal?

For home protection, which type of hand gun is safer: a revolver with a speed loader near by, or a semi-automatic with the clip out and nearby? Better asked, what is the safest way to keep a handgun nearby in the house, but also be as safe as possible with young or teenaged children?

Chip

In commie-fornia, getting a carry permit isn't all that easy. At least not in the area I live.

I'd prefer the semi-auto to a revolver, but I'm biased. I keep the gun and clips seperate, with one clip loaded. The gun is locked and there are no kids in the house.

In my area, I'm not too concerned about some late night break-in. We're more likely to chase off teenagers parking in corner of our property on a Saturday night.

 

[fgcason]

Re: Handgun question.

For home protection, which type of hand gun is safer: a revolver with a speed loader near by, or a semi-automatic with the clip out and nearby? Better asked, what is the safest way to keep a handgun nearby in the house, but also be as safe as possible with young or teenaged children?

The safest gun is the one you can operate in a safe manner. Me personally and growing up with guns: An unloaded gun isn't a home defense weapon. For home defense in a relatively safe neighborhood a revolver is loaded, hammer down safety on. Semi-auto, a loaded clip is next to the gun no safety since no bullets. Hostile environments are different rules.

For children in the house with guns, well there are lots of heated opinions but I can only tell what we did. My dad collects guns so I've never not been around guns. On the farm we even had a 30.06 sitting by the front door with a box of ammunition right there and kids running in and out all day long. There were no locks on guns anywhere and ammunition was readily available. We live in a different world today but that was safe enough back then.
IMNSHO: The moment they can get curious or old enough, take them out right then and teach them about guns and responsibility. Don't wait until they're 18 or 21 or 30, teach them early. (I got busted in the forehead and knocked on my butt by a hot loaded 12 gauge when I was SIX) Teach them what a gun can do, show them the damage to something like a ground hog that they just shot themselves, that'll wake them up real quick about the serious consequences of guns. Take them out shooting regularly. As long as a gun is a secret mystery locked away thing that they're not supposed to touch, they're going to try to get their hands on it especially when their friends are around. When you take it down in a controlled situation let them shoot as much as they need to get the curiousity out of their system, the gun suddenly is no longer something to covet. At that point the gun is no different than a wrench sitting on a shelf, don't need it leave it alone woopie doo doo who cares. Opinions vary but in my experience, what they know gets left on the shelf, what they don't know gets messed with. Every person I've met that was raised around guns with training (and there are a lot of kids on that list) there has never been a single problem. OTOH I personally know of half a dozen cases of not so accidental shootings by kids that didn't have the exposure we had. We were evil, they were safe but somehow we managed to never shoot anyone and several of them did. IMO YMMV do what you want but I call it as I see it based on actual hands on experience as the kid and as the gun instructor for other kids.

 

[Anthony]

Re: Handgun question.

For children in the house with guns, well there are lots of heated opinions but I can only tell what we did. My dad collects guns so I've never not been around guns. On the farm we even had a 30.06 sitting by the front door with a box of ammunition right there and kids running in and out all day long. There were no locks on guns anywhere and ammunition was readily available. We live in a different world today but that was safe enough back then.

By the time I was nine or ten I had my own .22 rifle my great uncle gave me, and even a WWII bring back Walther PP (semi-auto pistol in 7.65MM) that my dad brought back from Germany after the war. I still have them both. There was never a problem as I knew the safety rules and was taught right from wrong. Today, I keep alll my guns in a safe except the one I'm carrying. We have no kids in the house.

 

[poadeleted3]

Re: Handgun question.

By the time I was nine or ten I had my own .22 rifle my great uncle gave me, and even a WWII bring back Walther PP (semi-auto pistol in 7.65MM) that my dad brought back from Germany after the war. I still have them both. There was never a problem as I knew the safety rules and was taught right from wrong. Today, I keep alll my guns in a safe except the one I'm carrying. We have no kids in the house.

As I said earlier, Sean has his own .22 rifle, a little single shot bolt action called a Cricket. Made here in PA, I think. He's also decided he wants his own handgun. We made several trips to the store so he can decide what he wants. He's decided on a stainless Ruger Bearcat .22 single action revolver. Cathy and I told him that if he saved his allowance, we'd each match him. Told him he had to save $100. Much to our surprise, he's forgone many a toy to save that money, and is halfway there at $5 a week. We've had to start popping pennies in the savings account to make sure we can match him, for if he saves $100 bucks, we'd better be ready to put up LOL. He has to share the pistol with us, though... it's going to be TOO much fun

 

[Frank Browne]

Re: Handgun question.

Ruger Bearcat .22 single action revolver.

Very cool. A friend of mine once owned a Bearcat in .22 magnum. Sweet little pistol and heeps of fun to shoot!

 

[AirBaker]

Not sure of the age when I started shooting BB/Pelet guns. But definitely was given the instruction and training of guns from that first moment. There was the progression to .22s, 12ga, .357s and so on. IF there is to be any guns in the house, they should all be treated the same. As if they are loaded and to be respected.

 

[TMetzinger]

While all states do background checks, not all criminal records are disqualifying. In some jursidictions non-violent misdemeanors (like petty shoplifting, trespassing, mischief) do not result in disqualification.

On the other extreme - domestic violence, even if one was never prosecuted or convicted, is a federal disqualification for gun ownership. While I'm no fan of spouse-beaters, I feel that more than just an allegation and an arrest should be required before a person is stripped of his constitutional rights, especially since most localities have a "somebody's going to jail" policy when they get called out on a domestic abuse case. I know of one federal agent who was accused of domestic violence at a family party - though both he and his wife denied anything happened, his brother-in-law had called the cops and he was arrested. He was on admin leave without pay for almost a year before the investigations were done and the arrest was nullified, which made him eligible to go back to work.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Twenty nine states have repricocity - that is they will recognize other states carry permits.

I'm a Federal officer so I don't need one anyway.

You no longer need a permit up here in Alaska - though you can still get one if you want. I suppose that is so you can carry your weapon in one of those states that have repricocity.

There are some restrictions:

A person 21 or older may be charged with carrying a concealed deadly weapon under AS 11.61.220 if s/he

1. 1. fails to immediately inform a peace officer that s/he is carrying a concealed handgun
   2. fails to allow the officer to secure the weapon or fails to secure the weapon at the direction of the peace officer, or
   3. carries the weapon concealed within another person’s residence, unless s/he has first obtained the express permission of an adult residing there, whether or not the person has a concealed handgun permit.

 

[JRitt]

Re: Handgun question.

Joe and Anthony answered your other questions but the .410 "pistol" is illegal for sure. Federal law requires a shotgun to have a barrell length of at least 18" with an overall length of at least 36".

Although you are correct that a "Shotgun" has to have a barrel legnth of 18" a shotgun is defined as "In official BATF nomenclature, a shotgun is a smoothbore, shoulder fired arm, with a barrel of 18 inches or more, and a total length of not less than 26 inches".
A pistol that can fire a .410 shot gun shell is legal in either single or double barrel form. Most of these pistols are designed to fire either a .45 colt or a .410 shotgun shell from the same pistol.
SO yes the double barrel .410 pistol "Snake Charmer" is legal

 

[Ghery]

My first experience shooting was when I was 9. Took hunter safety when I was 10. Been around guns ever since. Our kids were around them from virtually day 1. They learned early that guns are not toys and that they must be treated with respect. I don't recall that my daughter has ever shot, but my son has and enjoys the sport. When they were growing up the guns and ammunition were stored separately. Still are. I'm looking forward to teaching my grandchildren (when there are some and they are old enough) about the safe enjoyment of firearms. They are like airplanes. Used safely with an understanding of the associated hazards they can provide significant enjoyment. Abused they can bite.

 

[Frank Browne]

Re: Handgun question.

Although you are correct that a "Shotgun" has to have a barrel legnth of 18" a shotgun is defined as "In official BATF nomenclature, a shotgun is a smoothbore, shoulder fired arm, with a barrel of 18 inches or more, and a total length of not less than 26 inches".
A pistol that can fire a .410 shot gun shell is legal in either single or double barrel form. Most of these pistols are designed to fire either a .45 colt or a .410 shotgun shell from the same pistol.
SO yes the double barrel .410 pistol "Snake Charmer" is legal

You're correct. I forgot about the Thompson/Center.
I guess the ol' noodle remembered the wrong number. Thanks for the correction.

Let me ask this though. If the .410 started out as a "full length" shotgun and was sawed off, would it still be legal?

 

[Anthony]

A good source for reciprocity info is here.

http://www.packing.org

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Re: Handgun question.

Here's a site to show you everything everyone needs to know about guns...

http://www.boneland.com/toys/aaa/index.html

 

[JRitt]

Re: Handgun question.

You're correct. I forgot about the Thompson/Center.
I guess the ol' noodle remembered the wrong number. Thanks for the correction.

Let me ask this though. If the .410 started out as a "full length" shotgun and was sawed off, would it still be legal?

There is a gray area where people have sawed off the barrel and the stock to classify it as a pistol. It should be legal but I would not bet the jail time on it. Just sawing a barrel shorter than 18" is not legal

 

[ausrere]

I pretty much carry mine just about anywhere I go. Being a LEO does give one the ability to carry in places CHL permit holders don't, but I don't usually carry in places that might get one in trouble (ie, bars-not that I go to many of those and when I do, I rarely drink ) This day and age one can't be too prepared though so I don't usually leave home without it.

Everyone else has pretty much answered the question about the basic laws, they are pretty similar from state to state from what I understand.

As far as home security of the weapon, I don't have kids so I don't think about that as much as others might. There are laws in most states that makes it illegal to allow a child access to a weapon though so when I visit my brother or sister (who do have kids) I either leave it at home, leave it locked in a lock box in my car or lock it up in some other manor with the ammo and weapon in two separate places.

I grew up much like some of the other posters. When I was old enough to know what a gun was (6 or 7) my father took me out and showed me what a weapon could do. Watching a few watermelons and milk jugs full of water blow up when the bullet struck it was enough to let me know it was not a toy I wanted to play with. I did know how it was supposed to be handled though, and knew that if I were caught playing with it without dad around, I was in deep trouble.

By the time I was 11, I had been hunting with dad many times and been knocked on my rear by a shotgun..only to get up and do it again and again. I knew how clean the handguns, rifles and shotguns as well as most of the game we hunted, so like someone else said, the "mystery" was gone so I never saw a need to explore the weapons unless we had a reason to use them like any other tool.

 

[Earthroamer]

Chip,

It's not a big deal in Arkansas. I just let my conceled permit expire in Arkansas. I do have one in Oklahoma now. It's going to cost you $120 in Arknasas. Bascially, you have to go to a certified course CLEET based course. These are done at most gun stores or ranges. My very close friend owns a store in Fayetteville if you need his help with this. He used to the be Vice Principal over in Siloam Springs. There are a couple of places for you to go to in NW Arkansas. I think that course runs you 50 smackers. You have to fire, if I remember right 25 shots at a 3 to 5 foot target. If you cant hit that with your eyes closed you shouldnt have a gun. You will take the paper they give you to the county sheriffs department and ask for the conceled permit paper work. Get two passport photo's taken at the nearest Kinko's. Fill out the paper work with a copy of your CLEET approved training and a check to the state of Arkansas. Wait for about 90 days and then they will contact you to come and get your permit. You want to qualify (CLEET approved course) on a semi auto so that you are allowed to carry both revolver and semi auto. If you only qualify on the revolver, then you cannot carry the semi auto.

Yes, tell the cop. I got pulled over for doing 80mph in a 60mph zone here. The cop was so in awe at the .50cal desert eagle I had and the three other guns that I was transporting, that he let me off. However, they will tell you in class to give him your permit and your drivers license at the same time, so that they know you are carrying.

I carry mine on me most of the time and loaded. I have a couple of compact .40cals that I carry. I usually have a .40 cal two tone Browing Semi Auto under the seat with a 10 shot clip. I am driving over to Mountain View tomorrow (b/c God hasnt blessed me with an a/c yet) and will have mine with me. In the north woods there are two types of people there. The ones that will sell their dog to help you and the ones that will make you disappear in the mountains.

Chip, all this sounds complicated but is very straight forward when you do the process. It's very simple to do and is accomplished in a short amount of time. If I can at all help you, please let me know. If you would like to talk to my friend, let me know as well. He can help you locate various guns if you are having issues.

 

[gibbons]

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Chip,

It's not a big deal in Arkansas. I just let my conceled permit expire in Arkansas. I do have one in Oklahoma now. It's going to cost you $120 in Arknasas. Bascially, you have to go to a certified course CLEET based course. These are done at most gun stores or ranges. My very close friend owns a store in Fayetteville if you need his help with this. He used to the be Vice Principal over in Siloam Springs. There are a couple of places for you to go to in NW Arkansas. I think that course runs you 50 smackers. You have to fire, if I remember right 25 shots at a 3 to 5 foot target. If you cant hit that with your eyes closed you shouldnt have a gun. You will take the paper they give you to the county sheriffs department and ask for the conceled permit paper work. Get two passport photo's taken at the nearest Kinko's. Fill out the paper work with a copy of your CLEET approved training and a check to the state of Arkansas. Wait for about 90 days and then they will contact you to come and get your permit. You want to qualify (CLEET approved course) on a semi auto so that you are allowed to carry both revolver and semi auto. If you only qualify on the revolver, then you cannot carry the semi auto.

Yes, tell the cop. I got pulled over for doing 80mph in a 60mph zone here. The cop was so in awe at the .50cal desert eagle I had and the three other guns that I was transporting, that he let me off. However, they will tell you in class to give him your permit and your drivers license at the same time, so that they know you are carrying.

I carry mine on me most of the time and loaded. I have a couple of compact .40cals that I carry. I usually have a .40 cal two tone Browing Semi Auto under the seat with a 10 shot clip. I am driving over to Mountain View tomorrow (b/c God hasnt blessed me with an a/c yet) and will have mine with me. In the north woods there are two types of people there. The ones that will sell their dog to help you and the ones that will make you disappear in the mountains.

Chip, all this sounds complicated but is very straight forward when you do the process. It's very simple to do and is accomplished in a short amount of time. If I can at all help you, please let me know. If you would like to talk to my friend, let me know as well. He can help you locate various guns if you are having issues.

Yeah, just remember that some states like Alaska REQUIRE you to immediately inform an officer if you are carrying a weapon. Also remember that not all cops are gun afficianados - some are not going to be impressed with discussing the relative merits of the Desert Eagle vs the S&W model 657 etc. if you are otherwise in trouble for something. To many it's just a tool hanging on their belt. An important one but just a tool nonetheless. I myself am a somewhat lukewarm firearms buff, but I'm always amused by people that assume I'm a gun nut (and I mean that with all affection) just because I carry one at my side.

 

[alaskaflyer]

I pretty much carry mine just about anywhere I go. Being a LEO does give one the ability to carry in places CHL permit holders don't, but I don't usually carry in places that might get one in trouble (ie, bars-not that I go to many of those and when I do, I rarely drink ) This day and age one can't be too prepared though so I don't usually leave home without it.

I started old school, we carried ours everywhere, bars, hid them in Federal court, out of state, snuck 'em into Canada once on a softball team tournament trip...we considered it our "right." It went with the rationalization that officers tend to get after a while.

Thinking back we did some pretty stupid stuff. Usually involving off-duty weapons and alcohol. My (former) department was actually relatively tolerant of this then even though it was against policy.

Now talking to my friends at my former agency it is strictly verboten. Guy got fired last year for it after he got into an altercation with another patron. Things are more PC these days, I suppose rightfully so. Sigh. And frankly I would prefer not to carry my hogleg anymore when I am off duty out of jurisdiction anyway. Like Frodo carrying his ring of power What a change 16 years can bring!

 

[ausrere]

I started old school, we carried ours everywhere, bars, hid them in Federal court, out of state, snuck 'em into Canada once on a softball team tournament trip...we considered it our "right." It went with the rationalization that officers tend to get after a while.

Thinking back we did some pretty stupid stuff. Usually involving off-duty weapons and alcohol. My (former) department was actually relatively tolerant of this then even though it was against policy.

Now talking to my friends at my former agency it is strictly verboten. Guy got fired last year for it after he got into an altercation with another patron. Things are more PC these days, I suppose rightfully so. Sigh. And frankly I would prefer not to carry my hogleg anymore when I am off duty out of jurisdiction anyway. Like Frodo carrying his ring of power What a change 16 years can bring!

I hear ya. I have friends in the 'biz' who are NEVER without it.. I'm not that bad. If I'm not wearing something that makes it easy to conceal, I'm not fretting over not having it. And I'm far from a gun nut. My favorite off duty weapon is a Walther PPK/S and I've had it the whole 20 years I've been in this. Can't remember the last time I bought a new gun.

I think back to some of the things we did when I first got out of the academy and it's a miracle some of us made it this far.. and things have changed a LOT in this business. My first year we made almost as many arrests off duty as we did on because we were so gung ho. I'm just as happy that no one knows I'm a cop when I'm off duty and enjoying myself in public and I have no problem calling the on-duty guys to come save the day.