hand-holding during the buying process

[Rigged4Flight]

So it's been a while since my last post here. I stopped visiting/posting because I had at least a year to go before I could even start my PPL training and I felt like a starving person looking in the window of a restaurant.

Anyway, I'm ready now to find/purchase a small IFR certified trainer. Other than The Big Step of the actual purchase, I've got to admit that I'm frankly intimidated as heck by the whole process. The biggest hurdles I'm looking at all stem from my need to find/purchase a plane before I get home. Yup - before I get home.

I don't think that buying a plane sight unseen is a good idea, but given my circumstances I need to make it work. I'm in Afghanistan. Once I get back to the USA, I have a block of 30-45 days that I can devote exclusively to flying. When that block of time is up, I need to get back to earning a living and I won't have much time to spare (and I may even be overseas again). Hence my desire to front-load the purchase of the plane and have it ready to go when I get home. I know I don't live in a perfect world, but if I did, it would show me as the proud owner of a gently used IFR trainer, ready and able to be a reliable daily flier within the next month.

So everything I'm looking at wanting to do, and the way I need to get them done, all seem to all lead me to thinking that hiring someone to find, evaluate and handle the purchase of the plane for me is making a lot of sense. Do purchasing agents (brokers? not sure of the proper term) handle situations like this for a price limit of ~$30K? (I'm looking hard at C150s and possibly 172s.)

So how would I find and evaluate someone that I could work with in this capacity? I'm sure I'm not the first person to do this. Any/all suggestions, critiques, etc would be appreciated.

 

[murphey]

Ask Henning if he's interested. He's trustworthy, knows airplanes & engines, and will probably charge a reasonable and fair fee for the service. At least he does for floating vehicles.

Where are you going to be located for that 30-45 days?

 

[Rigged4Flight]

Still looking at training options. I was sold once on Sheble Aviation, but I just read a few reports of some shenanigans regarding flight examiners there, resulting in students having to re-do their check rides.

Since I'll be training in the winter, I'm leaning heavily toward Arizona. Just not exactly sure yet who/where I'll train with.

 

[marcoseddi]

Seems like it may be better to do one of the those accelerated courses, as if yiu have no time afterwards you'll have a plane you have to pay to maintain, store and it won't fly.

 

[Rigged4Flight]

I'm thinking that if I can use my own aircraft and fly daily for a month or more, I'm essentially doing an accelerated course at a discount (at least over the short term).

If it turns out that I'll be out of the country for another extended period, I may look in to getting a partner that can keep it flying while I'm gone - or I could even just sell it. Assuming I don't bend any straight parts and the aircraft is worth what I pay for it, it should hold its value for the few months it would take for me to do my training and then either decide to keep it or sell it based on where I'll be for the next year.

On a side note, one of the driving forces behind getting ppl/ifr/commercial is getting a new job with shorter (or possibly no) deployments. Something that would make my wife and I very happy.

 

[asgcpa]

There was a guy on the Board named Jim Davis a while back that was interested in brokering. Also Steve Feldman from AirplanesUSA does thiscwork.

 

[poadeleted20]

What are you going to do with the plane when you go back out of the country after those 30-45 days?

BTW, if you're looking at Cessna 150's, I hope neither you nor your instructor are large -- not enough useful load to carry more than about two hours of gas if you are. And finding a C-172 for $30K that you'd really want to use for instrument training may be harder than you think.

Put those two issues together, and maybe you want to rethink whether buying a plane just to use for that training is a better idea than going somewhere that has planes and instructors. GATTS is one of those, although I'm not sure about mid-winter weather in that part of the country. PIC has a deal with an FBO in South Florida where you could have use of their plane with a PIC instructor for the training period, and the flying weather should be very good that time of year. Call Donn at 800-I-FLY-IFR for more on that option.

 

[N801BH]

...... I'm in Afghanistan. Once I get back to the USA,......

Thanks for your service in keeping us safe over here...

 

[SCCutler]

Thanks for your service in keeping us safe over here...

Echo that!

---

Where will you be basing your purchased aircraft? Useful to know.

There are a number of very good brokers whose services in buying would be invaluable. Are you tied-in on what you want, or are you open to all options? Describe, also, what you want to be able to do with this airplane, besides learn to fly. Like Ron mentions above, some aircraft will be so limiting in what they can do, you'll be shopping again almost right away!

 

[JoseCuervo]

What are you going to do with the plane when you go back out of the country after those 30-45 days?

BTW, if you're looking at Cessna 150's, I hope neither you nor your instructor are large -- not enough useful load to carry more than about two hours of gas if you are. And finding a C-172 for $30K that you'd really want to use for instrument training may be harder than you think.

Put those two issues together, and maybe you want to rethink whether buying a plane just to use for that training is a better idea than going somewhere that has planes and instructors. GATTS is one of those, although I'm not sure about mid-winter weather in that part of the country. PIC has a deal with an FBO in South Florida where you could have use of their plane with a PIC instructor for the training period, and the flying weather should be very good that time of year. Call Donn at 800-I-FLY-IFR for more on that option.

Ignore this comment, it really doesn't help you attain your objective.




You shouldn't have any trouble finding an IFR trainer for your budget. Lots of 172's, Cherokees, Warriors out there that will fit your needs at your price. Most airports have one of these posted on the FBO bulletin board or down the hangar row.

And, you are right that the key will be to find someone who can find one on your behalf, at an affordable fee. Hopefully someone knows someone who knows someone who knows someone that can help you.


Good luck, and thanks for your service.

 

[poadeleted20]

You shouldn't have any trouble finding an IFR trainer for your budget. Lots of 172's, Cherokees, Warriors out there that will fit your needs at your price. Most airports have one of these posted on the FBO bulletin board or down the hangar row.

Got any examples within a $30K budget?

 

[Tom-D]

So how would I find and evaluate someone that I could work with in this capacity? I'm sure I'm not the first person to do this. Any/all suggestions, critiques, etc would be appreciated.

I'll mentor your buying process for free if you are near me.

I know of several CFIs that can do the instruction, and several aircraft that fit your requirements.

Ron is right buying might be the wrong way to do this.

 

[Henning]

Got any examples within a $30K budget?

Yeah, several local to me including a Cherokee 180 with a 430. All in all though knowing more about his situation than posted here, I don't think buying is his best option.

 

[Tom-D]

Got any examples within a $30K budget?

It takes about 30 seconds on a slow connection to find one these days.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/for/4114194526.html

 

[poadeleted20]

If I were mentoring you through this process, I'd start by discussing with you the costs of ownership based on my more than 35 years of owning light planes (four in all over that period). I'd be concerned that you do not understand all the costs of ownership, and that you are not prepared for the roughly $5000 per year it costs to own a plane before you even start the engine (shoot me an email and I'll send you a paper I wrote on this subject). I'd also be concerned that you do not understand all the costs of just buying a plane, including pre-purchase inspections, traveling to look at them, etc., which can take a big bite out of your $30K purchase budget, further limiting your options for a plane that can do what you want without a lot of ownership headaches.

 

[Tom-D]

If I were mentoring you through this process, I'd start by discussing with you the costs of ownership based on my more than 35 years of owning light planes (four in all over that period). I'd be concerned that you do not understand all the costs of ownership, and that you are not prepared for the roughly $5000 per year it costs to own a plane before you even start the engine (shoot me an email and I'll send you a paper I wrote on this subject). I'd also be concerned that you do not understand all the costs of just buying a plane, including pre-purchase inspections, traveling to look at them, etc., which can take a big bite out of your $30K purchase budget, further limiting your options for a plane that can do what you want without a lot of ownership headaches.

I'd do every bit of that for free for a AG vet.

 

[Tom-D]

I'm thinking that if I can use my own aircraft and fly daily for a month or more, I'm essentially doing an accelerated course at a discount (at least over the short term).

If it turns out that I'll be out of the country for another extended period, I may look in to getting a partner that can keep it flying while I'm gone - or I could even just sell it. Assuming I don't bend any straight parts and the aircraft is worth what I pay for it, it should hold its value for the few months it would take for me to do my training and then either decide to keep it or sell it based on where I'll be for the next year.

On a side note, one of the driving forces behind getting ppl/ifr/commercial is getting a new job with shorter (or possibly no) deployments. Something that would make my wife and I very happy.

What happens when the aircraft breaks and can't be repaired in the time limit you have set?

An engine overhaul will blow the whole idea of trying this.

 

[Rigged4Flight]

Ahhh... yup. So the farther I crawl down this rabbit hole, the more loudly I hear the whispers in the dark. They are all saying "if you have to ask how much this costs, you probably can't afford it!"

So it looks like buying doesn't make as much sense as I initially thought. At least not at my current budgeted cash and financing levels.

I've set aside $15K for flight training. I had thought that it would make sense to finance a plane in order to extend the training budget. But of course every step of the way toward buying a plane, there are pieces of the money pie that get sliced out. Like the 15% down payment (which on a $30K aircraft is 1/3 of my training budget). And then there's the pre-purchase inspection, taxes, transport costs (training area in the Southwest, and home is in Vermont), and the maintenance/repair issues that I'm sure will pop up somewhere along the way.

On the other hand, rental for 40 hours of training is over $4k, so either way I go I'm looking at about a third of my budget. The difference being that if I rent, once my training is done I'm still paying the same rates to rent the plane. If I buy, the more I fly, the lower my cost of flying becomes.

Plan C sounds more realistic: Spend a month or so doing nothing but flight training like I had planned, except I use flight school rentals. This gives me access to various aircraft, gives me some experience with what I like and don't like about different makes/models, and I'm off the hook for trying to figure out what to do with the plane if I end up heading back overseas.

If I end up staying in the US, I can look for a partner to go in with me to get the aircraft I really want for the long term, instead of the lowest-cost aircraft I can find for training.

Which only makes sense if I back away from the emotional rush of "I want to own a plane!" I suppose. But ... damnit I really do want to own a plane!

To answer some of the questions -

I have no doubt that Tom would do an awesome job of helping with the purchase. He's the one I turned to last year when a Tomahawk went up for sale for a too-good-to-be-true price in his neck of the woods. He saved me from buying a collection of un-flyable parts. I wouldn't hesitate to use his services again if the need/opportunity arose. I was hoping to find something nearer to my training area to minimize the transportation costs, and the upper left coast area of the country isn't good for that.

I have read Ron's paper on the costs of ownership. In my head I'm sure I glossed over any areas where he mentioned initial costs involved in the purchase, which is why I'm having to make a course change now.

I'm working in Afghanistan, but I'm no longer active duty military. I did my time over here and in Iraq and other places, and then I took a civilian job doing similar work for better pay. LOTS of soldiers over here deserve your thanks, but not me.

 

[kenjr]

buy into a fractional. It's a great way to learn the in's/out's of owning without having to deal with 100% of the costs...and you essentially get an airplane any time you want.

I'm in a Cherokee 235 with 3 other guys. I can't stress enough how important it is to meet everyone, talk through logistics, get a handle on personalities, etc... If something feels wrong or off - don't do it.

I got incredibly lucky. I wanted to get into a 180 but happened to see what they pinned up on the bulletin board at my school. I called and talked to the main guy in the partnership (who happens to be a retired SWA captain). He invited me out, we took it up for a spin, he let me fly it (as much as I could - I was about 7 hours into my training) and then we shook on a deal. They have a very nice setup - a LLC, everyone owns shares, voting rights, etc...

I basically paid 1/4 of the plane's value to get in (very reasonable) and for a little more than $100 a month (hangar and insurance costs), I have a plane sitting in a hangar waiting for me. Two times in 9 months has there been any conflict - and it wasn't even a big deal - we just called each other and worked it out. We pay $15/flight hour into the TBO engine fund and split any other maintenance as it comes up.

WAYYYYYYYY more cost effective than doing it all yourself and you enjoy pretty much all the benefits. The only thing I can think of that would make it any easier/more practical to own outright would be being able to leave my bag/headsets and stuff in the plane. But, when the bills come from the annual and other random maintenance that needs to be done...I like splitting it 4 ways.

 

[oldShar]

What are you intending on accomplishing with that $15k?

That's high for a private, and grossly low for a commercial with instruments (not to mention that you're kidding yourself to think that you can accomplish all of that within a month) (Assuming a rented aircraft)

 

[Rigged4Flight]

buy into a fractional. It's a great way to learn the in's/out's of owning without having to deal with 100% of the costs...and you essentially get an airplane any time you want.

I'm in a Cherokee 235 with 3 other guys. I can't stress enough how important it is to meet everyone, talk through logistics, get a handle on personalities, etc... If something feels wrong or off - don't do it.

I got incredibly lucky. I wanted to get into a 180 but happened to see what they pinned up on the bulletin board at my school. I called and talked to the main guy in the partnership (who happens to be a retired SWA captain). He invited me out, we took it up for a spin, he let me fly it (as much as I could - I was about 7 hours into my training) and then we shook on a deal. They have a very nice setup - a LLC, everyone owns shares, voting rights, etc...

I basically paid 1/4 of the plane's value to get in (very reasonable) and for a little more than $100 a month (hangar and insurance costs), I have a plane sitting in a hangar waiting for me. Two times in 9 months has there been any conflict - and it wasn't even a big deal - we just called each other and worked it out. We pay $15/flight hour into the TBO engine fund and split any other maintenance as it comes up.

WAYYYYYYYY more cost effective than doing it all yourself and you enjoy pretty much all the benefits. The only thing I can think of that would make it any easier/more practical to own outright would be being able to leave my bag/headsets and stuff in the plane.

Yup. This will make sense to look in to once my training is done.

 

[Henning]

Good call. When you're ready if you want to do your training in FL I can hook you up with a good CFI that can get you done.

 

[Rigged4Flight]

What are you intending on accomplishing with that $15k?

That's high for a private, and grossly low for a commercial with instruments (not to mention that you're kidding yourself to think that you can accomplish all of that within a month) (Assuming a rented aircraft)

My intention is to do nothing but fly in an area of the country known for good flying weather.

Flying every day, I don't see why I wouldn't get my PPL and get a good handle on the work I'll need to do to get the rest of the way. Like I said, my (flawed) plan was to take the cost of the aircraft rental out of the picture by purchasing a low-cost trainer. That isn't going to work, so I'm now adjusting my sights.

 

[Rigged4Flight]

Good call. When you're ready if you want to do your training in FL I can hook you up with a good CFI that can get you done.

Thanks for the help. I appreciate your willingness to jump in with both feet on short notice.

 

[PBristolJr]

If you ever do decide to get a gently used VFR/IFR training I have a very well kept low time 150 for sale.

 

[asgcpa]

My intention is to do nothing but fly in an area of the country known for good flying weather.

Flying every day, I don't see why I wouldn't get my PPL and get a good handle on the work I'll need to do to get the rest of the way. Like I said, my (flawed) plan was to take the cost of the aircraft rental out of the picture by purchasing a low-cost trainer. That isn't going to work, so I'm now adjusting my sights.

Hi, first thanks for serving.

You may want to consider:

1. Finding a place where you can buy block time after you take a lesson or two to see if the chemistry is right. If so, then you can save on block time. I currently save 5% prepaying. I am in Chicago, and the place I fly at has worked with people on an accelerated basis. They also have a Redbird FMX Simulator, but, sometimes (especially coming up) weather is crap her (Chicago area).

2. There is a place in Florida called "Tailwheels" and they offer a two week accelerated course. Don't know anything about them other than they offer an accelerated course and they are in Lakeland Florida. My sister is a Doctor with limited time and she is considering taking lessons there are she lives in Tampa.

3. Checkout Redbird Skyport flight school. They claim to offer a fixed time (3-5 weeks) and fixed price ($9,995) for the PPL. I spoke to them about the IR at Oshkosh, but I don't want to be away form my fiancee/job/ and puppy for that long.

4. Josh Runyan a CFII gold seal instructor started a flight school, Sky High Aviation Academy,l at Ft. Lauderdale Exec. He is a great guy. His number is 954-491-1522. They use a 152 and 172 aircraft. Instruction costs are estimated to be $9,500 and is an 8 week course, including ground school, using a 172.

Hope this helps.

 

[asgcpa]

sorry about the typos in previous post....

 

[poadeleted20]

If you've got $15K to spend, and you have the XC PIC requirements for IR met (or close to being met) and the written passed, then that would probably pay for PIC's 10-day IR course including renting a plane for the training from our South Florida partner FBO.

 

[asgcpa]

This is from the Skyport website:

MIGRATION Flight Training Method

The flight training offered by Skyport was created and designed from the ground up to change the way pilots are trained. We looked at every aspect of flight training, at every long held belief and asked why? What we found was a lot of people doing things a certain way and not knowing why. We want to change that. What this means for you is a training program like no other. You will receive the best available aviation education, delivered in the most effective media, in advanced equipment and supported by an expert staff.

Fixed Price, Predicable Time

The courses offered at Skyport are available at a fixed, guaranteed price. One more time, just to make sure you didn’t miss it… when we say we can get you a Private Pilot Certificate for $9,995 we mean it. The cost of each course includes all simulator, flight, exam and course software fees. Unlike other schools, we do not advertise a price based on FAA minimum hours, our price is based on what you really want, the certificate or rating. To take advantage of this fixed fee course we ask that you commit yourself to the training. Spend three weeks with us in San Marcos and fly everyday. At the end of your time with us you will have your license in hand and be better prepared then any other newly minted pilot. For customers that can’t spend a block of time with us or have started their training elsewhere, we can build a custom program to meet your schedule and needs.

MIGRATION Flight Training Method

The flight training offered by Skyport was created and designed from the ground up to change the way pilots are trained. We looked at every aspect of flight training, at every long held belief and asked why? What we found was a lot of people doing things a certain way and not knowing why. We want to change that. What this means for you is a training program like no other. You will receive the best available aviation education, delivered in the most effective media, in advanced equipment and supported by an expert staff.

Fixed Price, Predicable Time

The courses offered at Skyport are available at a fixed, guaranteed price. One more time, just to make sure you didn’t miss it… when we say we can get you a Private Pilot Certificate for $9,995 we mean it. The cost of each course includes all simulator, flight, exam and course software fees. Unlike other schools, we do not advertise a price based on FAA minimum hours, our price is based on what you really want, the certificate or rating. To take advantage of this fixed fee course we ask that you commit yourself to the training. Spend three weeks with us in San Marcos and fly everyday. At the end of your time with us you will have your license in hand and be better prepared then any other newly minted pilot. For customers that can’t spend a block of time with us or have started their training elsewhere, we can build a custom program to meet your schedule and needs.

http://redbirdskyport.com/flight-school/

 

[Henning]

If you've got $15K to spend, and you have the XC PIC requirements for IR met (or close to being met) and the written passed, then that would probably pay for PIC's 10-day IR course including renting a plane for the training from our South Florida partner FBO.

He hasn't had lesson 1 for his PP yet. He can get PP&IR for $15k.

 

[poadeleted20]

He hasn't had lesson 1 for his PP yet.

I didn't get that, and it definitely changes things, including making buying a plane a non-starter -- can't get enough flight hours on $15K to complete PP and IR under Part 61. Even under a combined PP/IR syllabus, I'm not sure it's possible once you add in all the other costs including test fees, instructor fees, etc.

He can get PP&IR for $15k.

In a Part 141 program, perhaps. But that limits him to 141 schools.

All in all, I'm not seeing zero-to-PP/IR in 30-45 days on $15K. Redbird Skyport advertises that for $20K and two months, and that's typical.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Like I said, my (flawed) plan was to take the cost of the aircraft rental out of the picture by purchasing a low-cost trainer. That isn't going to work, so I'm now adjusting my sights.

1. Florida is not the best flying weather in winter, Kansas is. Cold stable air is best to fly in. Clear days about 25 days a month. Sometimes 30 days a month. The days it is not clear usually has high ceilings so you fly anyway.

2. You can listen to the nay sayers or you can listen to someone who did exactly as you planned.

One can choose to look at all the pitfalls and things that might happen to disrupt your plan or one can look at the goal. I'd say you have about 80-90% chance of success or better if you follow your original plan.

I bought a 1966 Cherokee which today would sell fro $14.6k, with a fresh annual inspection and flew almost every day for about 40 days and got my license in it at a bit more than 50 hrs total time.

If I were to do it today here are costs doing it at my FBO today:

If on tie down: Free rent for tie downs
If in Hangar: $140 per month rent.

Mogas is available here so todays price is $3.07 per gallon at 8 gph works out to $24.50 per hour fuel.

Over 8 years and 880 hours on my Cherokee the annual inspections and maintenance, oil changes everything totaled $10 per hour or about $8800 for 880 hours and 8 years annuals.

Insurance on a $15k plane for a no time pilot is about $430 per year maybe less now.

So 50 hrs at 8 gph (that is high as you will burn a bit less) =400 gallons

No taxes property nor sales tax in Kansas on avation:

Fuel for 50 hrs $1225 mogas
Insurance 1st year $430
Tie down free
First year maintenance $800-1000 including annual inspection (which you might get the annual paid for by seller)
Written test $75
Flight test $200
CFI about 30 hours from $12-25 per hour paid direct


So about $3500.

After you are done with your PPL you can work on your IR but in any case you can move the airplane to where ever in the country has the driest wx and leave the plane on tie down for a bit of nothing or leave it in a hangar in the midwest for $140 per month. You can keep it in dry storage for the year you are gone.

I had a few mechanic difficulties during my first month of training, tire, battery or what have you but most of the big stuff gets caught by the annual inspection so no reason to expect the plane to be down for weeks on end.

A few other ideas are that you might be able to do a dry lease on a Trainer for 2 months. That way you juts pay xxx for leasing the plane. get insurance and away you go. Then you do not have to store it while you are away.

There is no way in hell I would go to a flight school and get ripped off $120 per hour to rent an aircraft and pay another $45-65 per hour for a flight instructor.....it is absolutely not necessary. That is for stupid kids with wet dreams about becoming jetjocks bus drivers.

 

[N801BH]

1. Florida is not the best flying weather in winter, Kansas is. Cold stable air is best to fly in. Clear days about 25 days a month. Sometimes 30 days a month. The days it is not clear usually has high ceilings so you fly anyway.

2. You can listen to the nay sayers or you can listen to someone who did exactly as you planned.

One can choose to look at all the pitfalls and things that might happen to disrupt your plan or one can look at the goal. I'd say you have about 80-90% chance of success or better if you follow your original plan.

I bought a 1966 Cherokee which today would sell fro $14.6k, with a fresh annual inspection and flew almost every day for about 40 days and got my license in it at a bit more than 50 hrs total time.

If I were to do it today here are costs doing it at my FBO today:

If on tie down: Free rent for tie downs
If in Hangar: $140 per month rent.

Mogas is available here so todays price is $3.07 per gallon at 8 gph works out to $24.50 per hour fuel.

Over 8 years and 880 hours on my Cherokee the annual inspections and maintenance, oil changes everything totaled $10 per hour or about $8800 for 880 hours and 8 years annuals.

Insurance on a $15k plane for a no time pilot is about $430 per year maybe less now.

So 50 hrs at 8 gph (that is high as you will burn a bit less) =400 gallons

No taxes property nor sales tax in Kansas on avation:

Fuel for 50 hrs $1225 mogas
Insurance 1st year $430
Tie down free
First year maintenance $800-1000 including annual inspection (which you might get the annual paid for by seller)
Written test $75
Flight test $200
CFI about 30 hours from $12-25 per hour paid direct


So about $3500.

After you are done with your PPL you can work on your IR but in any case you can move the airplane to where ever in the country has the driest wx and leave the plane on tie down for a bit of nothing or leave it in a hangar in the midwest for $140 per month. You can keep it in dry storage for the year you are gone.

I had a few mechanic difficulties during my first month of training, tire, battery or what have you but most of the big stuff gets caught by the annual inspection so no reason to expect the plane to be down for weeks on end.

A few other ideas are that you might be able to do a dry lease on a Trainer for 2 months. That way you juts pay xxx for leasing the plane. get insurance and away you go. Then you do not have to store it while you are away.

There is no way in hell I would go to a flight school and get ripped off $120 per hour to rent an aircraft and pay another $45-65 per hour for a flight instructor.....it is absolutely not necessary. That is for stupid kids with wet dreams about becoming jetjocks bus drivers.

Great post... The words in bold are good advise too..

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

If you ever do decide to get a gently used VFR/IFR training I have a very well kept low time 150 for sale.

Would you consider a dry lease for a month and a half and 100 hrs or so? What would you want for it?

 

[txflyer]

30 to 40 days to IR PPL? Man, that sounds physically and mentally tough. Even if you go with the original plan to buy a plane, how do you guarantee an instructor every day, all day? What if he get's sick? Or flakes out?

I think OP, you are putting a whole lot of pressure on yourself, but I can understand. If you have the energy, and if it makes sen$e for your work and home life, ..... go for it.

Thanks for your service, and good luck.

 

[Rigged4Flight]

1. Florida is not the best flying weather in winter, Kansas is. Cold stable air is best to fly in. Clear days about 25 days a month. Sometimes 30 days a month. The days it is not clear usually has high ceilings so you fly anyway.

2. You can listen to the nay sayers or you can listen to someone who did exactly as you planned.

One can choose to look at all the pitfalls and things that might happen to disrupt your plan or one can look at the goal. I'd say you have about 80-90% chance of success or better if you follow your original plan.

I bought a 1966 Cherokee which today would sell fro $14.6k, with a fresh annual inspection and flew almost every day for about 40 days and got my license in it at a bit more than 50 hrs total time.

If I were to do it today here are costs doing it at my FBO today:

If on tie down: Free rent for tie downs
If in Hangar: $140 per month rent.

Mogas is available here so todays price is $3.07 per gallon at 8 gph works out to $24.50 per hour fuel.

Over 8 years and 880 hours on my Cherokee the annual inspections and maintenance, oil changes everything totaled $10 per hour or about $8800 for 880 hours and 8 years annuals.

Insurance on a $15k plane for a no time pilot is about $430 per year maybe less now.

So 50 hrs at 8 gph (that is high as you will burn a bit less) =400 gallons

No taxes property nor sales tax in Kansas on avation:

Fuel for 50 hrs $1225 mogas
Insurance 1st year $430
Tie down free
First year maintenance $800-1000 including annual inspection (which you might get the annual paid for by seller)
Written test $75
Flight test $200
CFI about 30 hours from $12-25 per hour paid direct


So about $3500.

After you are done with your PPL you can work on your IR but in any case you can move the airplane to where ever in the country has the driest wx and leave the plane on tie down for a bit of nothing or leave it in a hangar in the midwest for $140 per month. You can keep it in dry storage for the year you are gone.

I had a few mechanic difficulties during my first month of training, tire, battery or what have you but most of the big stuff gets caught by the annual inspection so no reason to expect the plane to be down for weeks on end.

A few other ideas are that you might be able to do a dry lease on a Trainer for 2 months. That way you juts pay xxx for leasing the plane. get insurance and away you go. Then you do not have to store it while you are away.

There is no way in hell I would go to a flight school and get ripped off $120 per hour to rent an aircraft and pay another $45-65 per hour for a flight instructor.....it is absolutely not necessary. That is for stupid kids with wet dreams about becoming jetjocks bus drivers.

 

[Tom-D]

What seems odd to me, is the fact there are several CFII's here that own their aircraft, and could make this dream happen.

yet do nothing to really thank a vet.

Talk is cheap. man up, make it happen.

 

[poadeleted20]

What seems odd to me, is the fact there are several CFII's here that own their aircraft, and could make this dream happen.

I'm glad you are willing to spend several thousand dollars of your own time and money to help a highly-paid overseas contractor, but please don't tell me I'm not supporting our troops if I don't.

 

[Rigged4Flight]

What seems odd to me, is the fact there are several CFII's here that own their aircraft, and could make this dream happen.

yet do nothing to really thank a vet.

Talk is cheap. man up, make it happen.

Tom I appreciate the sentiment, I know your heart's in the right place, but I don't like to take charity. When you checked out that tomahawk for me last year, you offered to half your fee when it was immediately obvious that the plane wasn't airworthy. If you recall, the check I sent was for the full amount.

But having said that, I AM in the market for a month or so of intensive flight training, and my budget has been posted in this thread...

 

[Rigged4Flight]

I'm glad you are willing to spend several thousand dollars of your own time and money to help a highly-paid overseas contractor, but please don't tell me I'm not supporting our troops if I don't.

I've posted my budget - not my income. If my income was what I would consider "highly paid", the budget and time to do what I'm trying to do wouldn't be an issue here.

This thread isn't about asking for handouts or charity. I'm looking for ways to extend my training budget as far as possible in order to get as close as I can to my goals. Nothing more, nothing less.