Halfway there...

I was playing with the numbers this morning after seeing that the next day I'm scheduled to go (Thursday) is also forecast to be a snow day (okay, just flurries, but the forecast discussion talks about "abundant boundary layer moisture", meaning IFR or at best MVFR ceilings). After that, the next chance for precip also happens to be the next day that the DPE is available, Sunday.

So starting next week, since the DPE does not do checkrides at night, my only chances are weekends. Thanks to the weather, the DPE's schedule is backed up so bad that his availability is about 2 days out of 7, picked essentially at random. Flyable days are occurring at a rate of about 2 out of 7, we'll assume those are at random too (though so far there is a 100% negative correlation with the DPE's availability). That means my chances of being able to go on any Saturday or Sunday are 4/49 or about 1 chance in 12. There are only 7 more weekends between next Monday and the expiration date of my oral. So the probability that I won't get it done is ~ (11/12)^14 = 30%. That's a 70% chance that I will, which is good -- of course, that all assumes that something else doesn't stand in the way, like a mechanical issue with the plane, or work, or one of us coming down with a virus.

Everything considered though, I'd like better odds than 70%. I wonder how the FAA arrived at 60 days for the time limit on the oral. Seems like in some parts of the country (e.g. Alaska), that might be WAY too short.
 
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The outlook for tomorrow at 1500Z...

KFNT 022335Z 0300/0324 20005KT P6SM OVC018
FM030500 20007KT P6SM SCT300
FM031100 23010KT 6SM -SHSN OVC025
FM031700 26013G20KT P6SM SCT025 BKN040

After that the DPE is no longer available on Sunday, and the next time our schedules meet is next Thursday. After next week, I will only have weekends available.

This is really getting discouraging... maybe it's just not meant to be. :(
 
If you'd like to come to 3MY I'll put you in touch with our examiner here....he's a good one. He's FULL TIME.
 
Thanks Bruce but the DPE here is full time too... he just has a lot of checkrides to give, and they're all backed up because of weather. It's gotta be the same in IL. I'm afraid going outstate would just make things harder... after all I'd have to GET there myself.
 
Don't give up, Liz. The weekends will work, and the weather will start getting better soon!
 
And postponement #4 is now official. :(

Next try will be Monday at 1800Z. After things get under way at school I will have office hours up till 1740 or so. But this being the first day of class, I should be able to squeeze in something after my first lecture.

The DPE also agreed to call me in case he has a cancellation. One way or another I'm gonna get this done. :yes:
 
Having taken my check ride in upstate New York in the middle of winter, I sympathize with you. I had a few cancellations and the day I went was THE coldest day of the year. I almost froze to death just doing the pre-flight. Use the extra time mentally going through the maneuvers to keep them fresh in your head.

Best of luck!
 
Just a couple of old thoughts from the old days.

One way of dealing with iced up flap/aileron/wing is to hang canvas, blankets, or furniture moving pads over the wing (a kids fort) and put a small heater on the floor underneath. The blankets will trap the rising warm air. Even thin plastic sheeting will work - especially if you lay cardboard or blankets over the top for a bit of insulation.
For a high wing put the heater up on a step ladder.
In a big yank you can spray RV antifreeze into the tracks and hinges to speed things up. (non toxic and evaporates)

Skip the kerosene pigs. Too much odor and residue for me - ymmv.
Another choice for deicing the airframe would be a Dragon engine heater plus blankets.
Up in the cold parts of the country I have seen canvas hung from the ceiling on pulleys, in an airplane shape, and lowered down over the plane (again, the old kids fort) and a heater set underneath.
More than once we used the exhaust from the pickup tailpipe to warm the engine for starting. Helps to know what you are doing.
I have seen the car/truck pulled into the hangar, close the door. and left running at a high idle - brick leaning against the pedal.. At 60 mph a full size car puts out enough heat through the radiator for a 5 room house. Of course you don't say in there with it running - doh. When you come back you open the hangar doors and let it air out for a few before entering. You could put a hose on the tail pipe running outside for safety - just takes longer to heat the hangar. But leaving the exhaust inside helps reduce the bugs.

Things have changed in my lifetime but the old ways still work if needed.
 
azure said:
I wasn't sure if I should post anything just yet, but I guess I kinda did already on the Red Board, so I might as well say it here too. I did the IR oral this morning just as the snow arrived. It almost didn't happen at all because I didn't have my FTN number with me. No, I didn't forget it -- the DPE asked me to email it to him, so I assumed that's the last time I'd need it. Worse, I didn't know that I'd have to log into my IACRA account right there to sign it electronically. I have literally dozens of usernames and passwords all over the net and don't remember them all -- usually I have no need to, since I let my computer store them and only access them from home. So I had to call FAA tech support and ask for my username so I could reset my password. VERY embarrassing, and the DPE was clearly displeased. :redface:

After that, the oral itself was almost a breeze. Questions about currency requirements, my personal minimums regarding icing, weather sources, a series of questions related to my XC flight plan including a lost comms arrival/approach scenario where the only approach with low enough minimums to get in for sure was an ILS to a downwind runway with a direct 15G22KT tailwind. The alternative was a nonprecision approach to the opposite direction runway with an MDA right at the bases and barely (if that) adequate visibility, and since the runway was easily long enough to get the airplane stopped with the tailwind, I picked the ILS, which the DPE agreed was the better choice. Then a few questions on low enroute chart symbols, and we were done.

Next step is the flight test, scheduled tentatively for Friday but who knows... with my luck, I will be glad if I can do it before the end of next week. It might come to that since the DPE is backed up very badly because he had to cancel several rides in the past few days due to wx.
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Sorry to hear about your scheduling woes, but I was hoping to get an answer to this question above:

Suppose you're in an airplane that is tailwind averse? My reading of NTSB reports includes several where the pilot decided to land downwind. I didn't understand what was driving the choice, but can see from your scenario where you could be forced to make a choice from 2 'poor' ones to begin with.

What if instead, you chose to go to your alternate? Is that legal in a lost comms scenario?
 
It's been over a week now, but my recollection was that the scenario was: lost comms, ILS 13C OTS, and there are no other approaches could get you low enough to be sure to make it in. We briefly discussed the idea of going to my alternate, and I do believe that would be a possibility as well. The question is, since you're lost comms, what does ATC expect you to do? They will expect you to at least try to shoot an approach at your destination before proceeding to your alternate. So yes, being averse to possibly blowing out a tire in a hot landing myself, in real life I would have filed PWK as an alternate, and after not getting in on the RNAV 13C at MDW, I would have gone and shot the ILS 16 at PWK.

But of course, this was an oral exam scenario, so he would probably have said that the ILS at PWK was OTS too. :D
 
Real life would you attempt an approach that you don't want to make it into?

Wouldn't ATC open the airspace enroute to the alternate also?
 
If you're lost comm, ATC is keeping the airspace around you clear. But they're expecting you to follow the rules and go to your destination, then your alternate.

OMG!!! Your destination has a horrible tailwind and it's too low to circle? Your alternate has gone below minimums? Why... you have an EMERGENCY! Keep squawking 7600, head for an airport where you can land safely, hope you get there before you run out of fuel, and land. ATC will keep the people they CAN talk to out of your way. When you land, call them up, tell them what happened and say "thank you" for keeping other traffic away, and that'll 99% certain be the end of it. You MIGHT get to recount the incident to an inspector, but I'd be very surprised if there was any negative interaction over this at all. They're not going to say "you should have landed with that horrible tailwind instead of at the airport you used."
 
TMetzinger said:
If you're lost comm, ATC is keeping the airspace around you clear. But they're expecting you to follow the rules and go to your destination, then your alternate.
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Got it

TMetzinger said:
OMG!!! Your destination has a horrible tailwind and it's too low to circle? Your alternate has gone below minimums? Why... you have an EMERGENCY! Keep squawking 7600, head for an airport where you can land safely, hope you get there before you run out of fuel, and land. ATC will keep the people they CAN talk to out of your way. When you land, call them up, tell them what happened and say "thank you" for keeping other traffic away, and that'll 99% certain be the end of it. You MIGHT get to recount the incident to an inspector, but I'd be very surprised if there was any negative interaction over this at all. They're not going to say "you should have landed with that horrible tailwind instead of at the airport you used."
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Tim- you're dripping with so much sarcasm, I can't figure out what you're trying to say:D

(seriously)
 
Yes, ATC will follow you and keep your airspace clear wherever you go. They're EXPECTING you to go to your alternate and it's better to do what they expect -- unless there's a reason not to (like, your alternate is also below minimums).

In an emergency I'd squawk 7700 and land anywhere I could.
 
azure said:
Yes, ATC will follow you and keep your airspace clear wherever you go. They're EXPECTING you to go to your alternate and it's better to do what they expect -- unless there's a reason not to (like, your alternate is also below minimums).

In an emergency I'd squawk 7700 and land anywhere I could.
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Here's a subject for discussion... You've been squawking 7600 because you can receive but not transmit. Your original plan is out the window because both your destination and alternate are not suitable (let's blame the weatherguessers and say that they blew the forecast for the alternate).

So, your XM WX tells you there's no VFR anywhere within your fuel margin (you really ARE having a bad day). So you're sure you've got an emergency and you know that your job is to get on the ground safely. You're going to head for an airport 40 minutes away that has an ILS and the weather shows it (and others near it) are below VFR but above minimums.

Do you keep squawking 7600, or do you squawk 7700? Why?
 
TMetzinger said:
Here's a subject for discussion... You've been squawking 7600 because you can receive but not transmit. Your original plan is out the window because both your destination and alternate are not suitable (let's blame the weatherguessers and say that they blew the forecast for the alternate).

So, your XM WX tells you there's no VFR anywhere within your fuel margin (you really ARE having a bad day). So you're sure you've got an emergency and you know that your job is to get on the ground safely. You're going to head for an airport 40 minutes away that has an ILS and the weather shows it (and others near it) are below VFR but above minimums.

Do you keep squawking 7600, or do you squawk 7700? Why?
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Good question! It depends, I think. If there was any doubt that I could get on the ground safely -- say, fuel was tight even for that airport 40 minutes away -- I'd want to communicate that to ATC and 7700 would be the only way to do it. If it was simply that I had to go somewhere else but there was nothing new in the situation that warranted letting ATC know that I might need further help, I'd keep squawking 7600.

That's just off the top of my head -- I'm not sure whether the AIM has any specific guidance on this. I'm on my way out the door but I'll do a little research later.

Edit: after some research, it seems the AIM doesn't really address this, they just say to squawk 7600 in a lost comms situation. Even though lost comms is AIM 6.4, and chapter 6 is all on Emergency Procedures.

Myself, I think that I would still do what I wrote. If the situation suddenly proves to be more dire than I thought, I want ATC to know that too.
 
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7700, because you're below IFR fuel mins upon arrival and you want priority. They'll figure out you can't talk when you don't. ANC.
 
Liz,

Hang in there!!!

I just finished my ride today and that was dicey with the weather coming in from the northwest (the same weather that cancelled you today). You'll get a decent winter flying day here soon.

And yeah, the hold with winds aloft howling at a substantial angle to the hold SUCK. My DPE had me do a nonstandard hold just to skew the inbound way off from the winds. Woof. Maybe even double woof. You need to be thinking about the correction even before you enter the hold.

We're all pulling for ya!
 
Glad to hear your ride went well Morne. Actually there have been a few flyable days here already, they just haven't lined up with the DPE's schedule. Tuesday was PERFECT, but he wasn't available. Saturday looks good too, but he has a full checkride booked already. Monday is too far in the future to call and any random day is about a 2/7 chance of being a go. We'll see...
 
...and an ASRS might be in order too because as I understand you're required to have the PLANNED 45mins on board at the alternate alternate.
 
and since the runway was easily long enough to get the airplane stopped with the tailwind, I picked the ILS,
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I might have missed this (skipped some of this thread) but if the minimums were marginal for a non-precision, a circle to land from the ILS might have been a good option, if mins for a CTL were available and could be met.
 
I don't remember how the ILS's circling minimums compared to the RNAV's straight in minimums, but usually circling MDA is higher than straight-in. Regardless, when visibility is bad (as it was in this scenario), I think I'd pick a straight-in RNAV over a circling anything, even out of an ILS.
 
azure said:
Good question! It depends, I think. If there was any doubt that I could get on the ground safely -- say, fuel was tight even for that airport 40 minutes away -- I'd want to communicate that to ATC and 7700 would be the only way to do it. If it was simply that I had to go somewhere else but there was nothing new in the situation that warranted letting ATC know that I might need further help, I'd keep squawking 7600.

That's just off the top of my head -- I'm not sure whether the AIM has any specific guidance on this. I'm on my way out the door but I'll do a little research later.

Edit: after some research, it seems the AIM doesn't really address this, they just say to squawk 7600 in a lost comms situation. Even though lost comms is AIM 6.4, and chapter 6 is all on Emergency Procedures.

Myself, I think that I would still do what I wrote. If the situation suddenly proves to be more dire than I thought, I want ATC to know that too.
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I posed the question because I don't feel there's ONE correct answer. If you're squawking 7600 ATC is going to see you as a big blip and keep other IFR traffic out of your way, and I expect they'd do the same for 7700. A 7700 might imply greater distress to ATC and result in you being met by emergency equipment at a field so equipped.

So I'm with Liz in saying "it depends". Same logic applies as to where you try and land. If I'm just NORDO, I'll try to avoid busier airports if there are less busy airports with approaches that are above minimums. On the other hand, if I've got other stuff going on - like minimum fuel, or other systems issues, then I'm going to an airport with emergency services, because if I end up needing them I want the RIGHT there.

As an example from my neck of the woods - if I'm coming from the west to the DC area, and my destination of KOKV and my alternate of KMRB are no longer good for me, but on the eastern side of the ridge KJYO/KFDK/KBWI/KIAD/KHEF are all above minimums:

If my only issue is my comm radio, I'll head for JYO or FDK squawking 7600. They both have ILS approaches. I wouldn't go to HEF because those approaches will normally put me deep into Dulles' bravo. But if I've got other issues - like a burning smell in the cockpit, then I'd head for BWI or IAD, and squawk 7700. And I'd have my handheld radio out and be broadcasting my intentions on 121.5. Maybe I'd get two way comms with it and maybe I wouldn't, but at least there'd be a chance that someone would hear me and relay it to ATC if ATC didn't hear me.
 
Done

Well I passed my checkride today. Like Morne I was very nervous about the conditions, and came close to canceling the ride in the minutes before I was to meet the DPE. The winds were 23014G25KT, which is well above what I'm comfortable with. I was concerned also about an airmet for turbulence below 10k, and was prepared for a bumpy ride. The weather gods did not disappoint. The DPE said I did very well, but it was awfully difficult to hold altitude in the choppiness, and the partial panel approach was VERY far from pretty. But it was apparently within spec, as was the rest of the ride. There was one glitch where the instrument cover used to "fail" my Sandel HSI and AI together apparently hit one of the keys on the Sandel and flipped it into Map mode, which I never use and had actually forgotten how to toggle out of. Map mode is basically useless to me because it disables the CDI and replaces it with umpteen waypoints from a several years old database (too expensive to keep updated). So I calmly switched to using the 480's NAV page and track-based DG/HSI until the DPE allowed me to switch on the autopilot to focus on troubleshooting the HSI, and suggested a fix that didn't work, but pointed me in the right direction. The DPE said later that the way I handled that little glitch was "worth 100 points".

So after multiple delays due to scheduling, work, mechanical problems, instructor issues, having to retake the written, and then seemingly endless postponements due to weather (this was try #5), it's finally over. Thanks to everyone for your support!
 
Re: Done

Who'd a'thought we'd ever read this post?

Whatever award they give for perseverance and determination should be on your mantel. Congrats!

azure said:
Well I passed my checkride today. Like Morne I was very nervous about the conditions, and came close to canceling the ride in the minutes before I was to meet the DPE. The winds were 23014G25KT, which is well above what I'm comfortable with. I was concerned also about an airmet for turbulence below 10k, and was prepared for a bumpy ride. The weather gods did not disappoint. The DPE said I did very well, but it was awfully difficult to hold altitude in the choppiness, and the partial panel approach was VERY far from pretty. But it was apparently within spec, as was the rest of the ride. There was one glitch where the instrument cover used to "fail" my Sandel HSI and AI together apparently hit one of the keys on the Sandel and flipped it into Map mode, which I never use and had actually forgotten how to toggle out of. Map mode is basically useless to me because it disables the CDI and replaces it with umpteen waypoints from a several years old database (too expensive to keep updated). So I calmly switched to using the 480's NAV page and track-based DG/HSI until the DPE allowed me to switch on the autopilot and suggested a fix to restore my HSI's bearing mode with its CDI. The DPE said later that the way I handled that little glitch was "worth 100 points".

So after multiple delays due to scheduling, work, mechanical problems, instructor issues, having to retake the written, and then seemingly endless postponements due to weather (this was try #5), it's finally over. Thanks to everyone for your support!
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azure said:
I don't remember how the ILS's circling minimums compared to the RNAV's straight in minimums, but usually circling MDA is higher than straight-in. Regardless, when visibility is bad (as it was in this scenario), I think I'd pick a straight-in RNAV over a circling anything, even out of an ILS.
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Congrats on your succesful checkride!

In your proposed scenario, I would have taken the straight in over the NoN precision.

Knowing your plane and having the ability to make a much tighter pattern than the minimum vis and ceiling for a CTL is a MUST. That makes the ctl an easy affair.

However, at night if the weather was close to mins for a CTL i'd choose not to attempt it and either land with the tailwind or go elsewhere.

My answer would have been - daytime, take the precision approach and circle. Night, either land with the tailwind or go somewhere else.

Thoughts?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
You Da Man!

Errrr.. wait..... um...

Congratulations!
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Eh? Today she's indeed "THE MAN" not that gender should have any bearing here. Congratulations Liz.

Given that the DPE's job is to determine to the best of their ability whether or not you will be a safe pilot, the fact that you weren't shaken into stupidity by the Sandel issue and maintained control of the airplane as well as your composure probably made that determination a piece of cake for him.

So when/where is your first IFR flight going to be???
 
Congratulations!! :cheerswine:
Was wondering weather you managed to fly yesterday (but didn't want to ask). Totally not surprised by the outcome, given the chance to show your stuff.
Guess you won't be needing a lift to Muncie. :)
 
AWESOME!!!

Congratulations and well done!

On my partial panel approach the turbulence knocked a suction cup off. I told the DPE I was not going to lean down to the floor to retrieve it.

I think the DPEs appreciate folks who will take the ride in a bit of chop.
 
I knew you could do it!!!!!

Congratulations! Way to go!
 
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