Hacking glass panels?

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by lancie00, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    711
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    I just read an article on General Aviation News about Bendix/King offering upgrade to glass in Cessnas. Here's the link.

    One of the comments says "No thx. Experts are finding out that glass panels in small G.A. planes is so easily hacked and taken control over by outsiders or even a 12 yr old that I’ll stay steam with an ipad."

    Is this true? I've never heard this before. That would really suck if it's true.
     
  2. ElPaso Pilot

    ElPaso Pilot Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,525
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ElPaso Pilot
    Well, any 12 year old with a screwdriver, vice grips, and wire cutter can hack your steam gauges and mechanical systems pretty easily, too.

    So, how secure is your iPad?
     
  3. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,155
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DaleB
    One of the dumber things I've seen lately. Sure, any 12 year old with physical access to the airplane, extensive experience with CAN bus and avionics, etc...

    Why are avionics busses in small GA airplanes unsecured? Maybe because they are such a vanishingly small target. There's no way to monetize hacking into airplane instrument panels... it's not like you can repurpose them for sending spam emails or hacking into PBX systems to place robocalls. They're not big enough or dangerous enough to be a significant threat to anyone, so the'd be pretty far down on the terrorist list.

    A guy could walk across the ramp sticking Scotch tape over static ports and cause all kinds of trouble, too. And why has that not been a big problem with GA? Oh, yeah -- there's no point to anyone doing it.
     
    Palmpilot likes this.
  4. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    711
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    So you're saying that they need physical access to the plane to hack it? If that's the case, I'm not so worried about it. If they did have physical access to it what can they do?
     
  5. asicer

    asicer En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,459
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    asicer
    An encrypted CAN bus on a typical GA piston single is like a Toyota Corolla with triple armored ignition interlock and rims made of solid 24kt gold fastened by stock lugnuts.
     
  6. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,087
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    jsstevens
  7. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,155
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DaleB
    No joke.

    Hey... your water heater is vulnerable to hacking. Any 12 year old or terrorist (and yes, I realize there's a lot of overlap in those two groups) could break into your house, turn the water temp down and you'd get a cold shower. How worried about that are you?
     
  8. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,532
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    the term "hack" is so sensationalized... the average idiot pictures some dude in the basement of a building with a hundred computer monitors around him like something out of the matrix typing eagerly away at an MS DOS terminal, with the stereotypical digital key punching sounds with every keyboard click

    When really, most "hacking" is just guessing a password or social engineering someone to give up or reveal their info

    Living in an apartment / condo complex it amazes me how many people have open unsecured WiFi signals
     
  9. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    711
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    I assumed this was a sky falling thing but hadn't heard of it yet. Thanks
     
  10. ElPaso Pilot

    ElPaso Pilot Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,525
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ElPaso Pilot
    ... and how many of those have you used for nefarious purposes???
     
  11. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,585
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    I can cut your brake lines and catch the fluid without even boarding your airplane.

    It’s a stupid fearmongering article. If you’re worried about your airplane being hacked and you have to wonder who wants you dead, you have bigger problems.
     
    WannFly, X3 Skier and murphey like this.
  12. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,585
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Statute of limitations hasn’t run out yet. Nice try. LOL.
     
  13. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    7,426
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilawt
    An AP story on this was illustrated thusly ...

    Hacking C-150.jpg

    I'm sure that C-150 pilot would have loved to blame it on an international cabal of hackers ... :confused::eek::rolleyes:
     
  14. NordicDave

    NordicDave Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,136
    Location:
    San Jose
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    NordicDave
    Lets remember the range of a Bluetooth signal about 30' and Wifi is 250". Assuming clear line of sight and no obstructions.

    Aluminum aircraft hulls cut the range significantly.

    For the 2-3 seconds a plane is slow on short final (in range to hack), a person has to hack the BT/Wifi ID, establish connection, and then get to work. Oh, the plane landed a 1000' away.

    Brought to you by the people who caused a rush on plastic drop cloth and duck tape after 911 to guard against theoretical gas attack.
     
    murphey likes this.
  15. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    8,784
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    This also assumes the devices are BT/WiFi enabled.
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  16. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2018
    Messages:
    1,541
    Location:
    Copperas Cove, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    LNXGUY
    Disregard all. It's nonsense.
     
    murphey and DaleB like this.
  17. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    16,628
    Location:
    PUDBY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Richard Palm
    Too much trouble for too little gain.

    (And in reality, probably NO gain.)
     
    murphey and DaleB like this.
  18. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    8,784
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    Wrong....it stirs up the unwashed masses and promotes more paranoia about GA.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  19. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,585
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    When IF there was a hacking target worth attacking, it wouldn’t be GA... it’s Part 121 aircraft...

    Who needs avionics hacking? One hovering drone has closed a major airliner airport in the UK for days this year... sigh.