Grumman Tiger, good bad and ugly

Don’t know to many scared of retracts but I do known insurance and maintenance is more as a general rule.
 
I have a 91 Tiger and for mid-range XC with 2 on board and full fuel at 130 kts, it works just fine. I wished I could claim cheep annuals but I can’t. Seems like every year something pops up or I get up-grade fever so my annuals tend to run high for a fixed gear, fixed prop machine. I’ve looked at Bo’s and others (my A&P/IA has a sweet V-35B) but frankly at my age and given what I use my Tiger for, it more than enough plane. I get it - some people don’t like them and that’s fine. But for a factory “spam can” they do pretty well.
 
1RTK1 said:
Don’t know to many scared of retracts but I do known insurance and maintenance is more as a general rule.
Click to expand...
The J-bar gear in mine takes very little maintenance and is as stone simple as it gets. The ones with electric gear actually use the same mechanism, its just urn by a motor instead of the pilot's right arm. I think the most maintenance it needs is a yearly swing and a check of the preloads. I actually had to spend 0.3 AMU to get mine lubricated. I suspect Mooneys are more to insure though, just like any other retractable. Too many gear up accidents.
 
I doubt many people base their buying decision on insurance. If you are looking at 60k airplanes but can't afford a few hundred bucks difference a year on insurance, then you should probably think twice about getting into airplane ownership.

Now if you add insurance, the slightly more expensive annuals, and occasional repair cost it can start to add up. Combine that with the perceived safety risk of the retract, for only a marginal speed increase and it becomes something a lot of people don't want to deal with.
 
steingar said:
The price I saw for a Tiger with a CS prop would almost buy an M20J, which would totally kick the six off any Tiger. I think they’re overvalued because lots of pilots are frightened by retractable gear.
Click to expand...

“Overvalued” is a meaningless concept. The market decides value.

I would choose a Tiger over an M20J, though I lusted after 201’s in the 1980’s and have time in them.

My decision largely based on:

1) The spacious view and open feeling of the sliding canopy and low panel.

2) The ease of loading into the fold-down rear seats through the canopy.

3) The simplicity and lower maintenance costs of the fixed gear and fixed-pitch prop.

4) The light and well-coordinated controls. Mooneys are quite heavy on the controls by comparison.

It’s really dumb to surmise my choice would be because I was “frightened by retractable gear”. REALLY dumb!
 
steingar said:
The price I saw for a Tiger with a CS prop would almost buy an M20J, which would totally kick the six off any Tiger. I think they’re overvalued because lots of pilots are frightened by retractable gear.
Click to expand...

I've got lots of retract time and now own a Bonanza in addition to the Tiger. I'm not afraid of retract at all. Tigers are valued how they are because they are excellent airplanes and also due to pressure on the entry level market by flights schools driving up 172 and Cherokee prices. People who used to look at a Cherokee 180/Archer are looking at Grummans, since Cheetahs are as fast and Tigers are faster. Plus, Tiger owners tend to not sell them.

Oh, and I know a guy with a 160+ knot Tiger.

asicer said:
What are the price ranges for a J?
Click to expand...

Not nearly as cheap as Steingar suggests, particularly since a lot of them have marginal panels that need upgrading badly.
 
Grum.Man said:
Well if an IO540 with a constant speed prop, jaguar cowl, and pressure recovery wheel pants can barely get 160 kt I doubt any other will.
Click to expand...

I saw Gary’s plane this year, it does have speed mods, he is running an io-360 with a constant speed prop. He’s hoping to get 160.
Geoff has the io540 and I think he can hit 160, you are correct that no stock tiger will hit that mark unless going down hill
 
UngaWunga said:
How are Tigers at short field work? Can you stick 4 humans in it with half tanks and get out of a 2000' strip?
Click to expand...

Flew one until the RV ... probably not going to be able to do that if DA is any issue or unless the rear PAX are children. My total gross pax weight with full fuel was 660 lbs.

steingar said:
The price I saw for a Tiger with a CS prop would almost buy an M20J, which would totally kick the six off any Tiger. I think they’re overvalued because lots of pilots are frightened by retractable gear.
Click to expand...

I'm not, and put over 600 hours on my previous Tiger. My area has few mechanic choices/options. That being the case, I was looking at a GlassAir III and it was the insurance costs that changed my mind (I have over 800 hours and quotes were north of 6k).
 
asicer said:
What are the price ranges for a J?
Click to expand...

N1120A said:
Not nearly as cheap as Steingar suggests, particularly since a lot of them have marginal panels that need upgrading badly.
Click to expand...

In today’s market, I believe M20Js are overvalued, but All American Aircraft knows that market pretty well and seem to have no trouble moving Js along at what I believe are inflated prices. $100K -$130k examples: http://m.allamericanaircraft.com/List/Aircraft/ForSale/34033047, http://m.allamericanaircraft.com/List/Aircraft/ForSale/34113675

The E/F tend to be more rationally priced in my opinion, but many of them are still just average planes. $60K and needs ADSB: http://m.allamericanaircraft.com/List/Aircraft/ForSale/32884205/Pictures
 
UngaWunga said:
How are Tigers at short field work? Can you stick 4 humans in it with half tanks and get out of a 2000' strip? Anyone got a POH for a Tiger?
Click to expand...

I had four adults in mine and took off on a hot day from a short field. Would not do it again. With plenty of runway, not an issue. I think my useful was around 980. I had a cruise sensenich prop.
 
TCABM said:
In today’s market, I believe M20Js are overvalued, but All American Aircraft knows that market pretty well and seem to have no trouble moving Js along at what I believe are inflated prices. $100K -$130k examples:
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the only Tigers in the $100k range are the ones that don't sell. I suspect one of @steingar 's former lovers ran off with a Tiger owner or something. :p
 
asicer said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the only Tigers in the $100k range are the ones that don't sell. I suspect one of @steingar 's former lovers ran off with a Tiger owner or something. :p
Click to expand...
Negatory ghost rider. Granted, the majority of the 100k plus Tigers are well-equipped 90s, 2000s Tigers...of which there aren’t tons of them out there. Of course there will always be the delusional seller who thinks his plane is worth a lot more than the rest of the world.
 
asicer said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the only Tigers in the $100k range are the ones that don't sell. I suspect one of @steingar 's former lovers ran off with a Tiger owner or something. :p
Click to expand...

LMAO.

There are Tigers in the $100k+ range, but they are all well equipped AG5Bs - some even flying out there with G1000s.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My annual on my traveler last year was $2200
This year, I am closing in on $4k
Click to expand...

For the annual inspection? Or because you are adding in maintenance and repairs? The "annual" inspection shouldn't vary that much.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My annual on my traveler last year was $2200
This year, I am closing in on $4k
Click to expand...

What are doing doing beyond the annual inspection. My Tiger annuals have been averaging about $1000 for the last 3 years. Basic inspection is $800. Usually have a couple of small items. One year needed an exhaust flange on one cylinder cleaned up. Luckily my AnP was able to do it on the plane and did not have to remove the cylinder.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My annual on my traveler last year was $2200
This year, I am closing in on $4k
Click to expand...

Holy smokes! How long have you owned the plane? Are you cleaning up a lot of deferred maintenance? My annuals, including necessary maintenance and repairs identified by the inspection, has averaged $1000-$1500 after the first three years of ownership. (The first three years, I was cleaning up a ton of deferred maintenance by the previous owner, and all that little stuff adds up.) I've had unscheduled maintenance on occasion--fuel tank sealing, cylinder replacement, muffler repair, magneto replacement, etc., but nothing like a $4000 annual inspection and required repairs. I've scheduled annuals coincident with avionics upgrades, but that is a voluntary additional expense, not an emergent one to keep the plane airworthy. The higher cost annuals have included some additional elective preventive maintenance, like replacing ancient oil hoses, baffling, interior plastic, or complying with SBs likely to become safety issues or ADs. I try not to defer maintenance to the point it piles up to a mega-annual repair job.
 

Q: Is $100K top of the market, mid market, or entry-level pricing for a Tiger like yours that sold?
 
I better knock on wood, I’ve owned my tiger for 5 years and besides brakes, oil and tires I have only had to pay for owner assist inspection, much less than $1000. No pencil whipped annuals either.
This year with adsb it’s going to be a little more.
 
TCABM said:
Q: Is $100K top of the market, mid market, or entry-level pricing for a Tiger like yours that sold?
Click to expand...
I’d say it’s top of the market, but low time nice planes are hard to find.
 
1RTK1 said:
I better knock on wood, I’ve owned my tiger for 5 years and besides brakes, oil and tires I have only had to pay for owner assist inspection, much less than $1000. No pencil whipped annuals either.
This year with adsb it’s going to be a little more.
Click to expand...
Don't worry. When you're done, you'll have a $100k Tiger. :)
 
When I was working with my cousin and saw a Mooney coming in we said oh ****

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
Good:
-looks different than all the typical "white Cessna with blue stripe" you see
-fast(-ish)
-easy to fly (if you're competent)
-they're fun to fly

Bad:
-this is well known but I'm not reading 6 pages.. but the canopy has a propensity to leak
-everyone will have some opinion on CHTs, cowls, etc., but what I do know is that the idea of allowing engine to hang out about 400 CHTs just feels wrong!

Ugly:
-not aware of anything "ughly" about it..
-don't mention the free castering nose wheel... it's not hard.. and most of the bungees in the C172 have gone to crap so you're pretty much diff breaking those too

**As far as one of them being able to do 160 KTAS.. lets assume you have a 65 inch pitch prop.. which is at the higher end of what Tigers typically have. This means that one rotation gets you 65 inches of forward motion, ideally (that's what pitch means, the whole airscrew thing)
**if we assume zero losses that means to travel 160 KTAS, or 184 miles per hour that means 11.6 million inches traveled in one hour... divide that by 65 (the amount of prop rotations that will make per it's pitch) means 179K revolutions per hour needed.. divide that by 60 (minutes in an hour) means 2,989 RPM.. we know that the redline is 2,700 RPM and we know that a propeller does not perfectly travel as many inches forward as it is pitched for.. so something here does not make sense. I'm not saying it's not possible, what I'm saying is a stock Tiger will not do 160 KTAS, and, once you modify a plane that heavily to make it do that, then does it really count?

That's like saying a Nissan Sentra is a good car because *one* person dropped a chevy LS in it modded the crap out of it

No hate on Tigers, I think they're great airplanes, but I wouldn't use one person's example as a litmus for the plane's abilities
 
1RTK1 said:
What does the annual cost for the mooney?
Click to expand...
My first was $640, 2nd was $830 on the Mooney. Unfortunately, 3rd looks like $7,000 or thereabouts, because we found corrosion and replacing the stringers. So, it varies.
 

This is an interesting YouTube video that goes waaay back but describe the difference between the AA5B and the AG5B. The information on the Tiger is in the videos first section.
 
Tantalum said:
Bad:
-this is well known but I'm not reading 6 pages.. but the canopy has a propensity to leak
-everyone will have some opinion on CHTs, cowls, etc., but what I do know is that the idea of allowing engine to hang out about 400 CHTs just feels wrong!
Click to expand...

My canopy never leaked, nor any of the many people I knew that owned one. I think this wives tale gets confused with EXITING a canopy aircraft in the rain - which I have, just need to be FAST with the umbrella, and be careful not to slip off the wing getting down.

Lycoming redline is 500* ... Tigers in summer need to level off or increase fuel flow to cool before 420* ... my normal cruise was 390* down low and 360* above 8500 MSL.
 
As for temps I can keep mine below 380* in climb or cruise in the heat of summer and I don't baby her. My baffling was done by Ken Blackman one of the gurus.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top