Groundspeed Records (260 knots in a PA28)

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machkhatib

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What’s your groundspeed record?

I fly a Piper Cherokee 180. I set the #1 record on groundspeedrecords.com for the PA28-180, achieving a groundspeed of 260 knots on March 16, 2025.

Before I set the record, I did some research. The previous record was set by Zack Graves in 2020 with a groundspeed of 256 knots. Zack set his record with a winds aloft forecast of 79 knots. He must have been in a descent to set the record. 256kts GS in a PA28-180 is insane.

I monitored winds on the Windy app for a while and finally saw an opportunity to beat his record. Winds aloft at 14,000 ft were forecast to be in excess of 90 knots along the Georgia-Alabama border near KCTJ around 7:30 AM EST. Yes, this was the morning after those tornados blew through the Southeast. I flew a few weeks prior at about 13,500 ft and I know my cruising speed in level flight at that altitude is 100kts IAS and 128 kts TAS. This left me with an extra 48kts before VNE of 148kts in my airplane. I figured I’d go to about 142kts IAS which gave me a 6kt cushion beneath VNE.

I did the math: 128 TAS in cruise + 42kts from a descent + 90kts tailwind = 260kts. It was possible.

Well ladies and gentlemen, I did it. I emailed the proof to groundspeedrecords.com and the owner said he will publish it after his website overhaul (in progress).

I know, it’s a dumb record that means little, flying into the upper yellow arc is risky, etc. It’s not something I intend to ever repeat again, but it did add a little bit of joy to my life to be the fastest PA28-180 pilot — at least until someone catches a day with 100kt winds. Anyway, here’s the video. Enjoy:

PA28-180 GS Record (YouTube)

And of course, please share your own groundspeed records!
 
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Lol. I forgot about that site. I see that I still hold the Piper Lance record at 209 knots though. That was in level cruise with a 60 knot tailwind. It never even occurred to me dive. I don't think I'm dumb brave enough to approach VNE with those kinds of winds aloft.
 
Jim K said:
Lol. I forgot about that site. I see that I still hold the Piper Lance record at 209 knots though. That was in level cruise with a 60 knot tailwind. It never even occurred to me dive. I don't think I'm dumb brave enough to approach VNE with those kinds of winds aloft.
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Straight line winds aren’t a problem, as long as they are constant. Winds could be 200kts, it won’t break your airplane unless there’s severe gusts mixed in. I flew through some light chop at 13,000 but otherwise my flight into the yellow arc was smooth air.
 
machkhatib said:
Straight line winds aren’t a problem, as long as they are constant. Winds could be 200kts, it won’t break your airplane unless there’s severe gusts mixed in. I flew through some light chop at 13,000 but otherwise my flight into the yellow arc was smooth air.
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I hear you, I've just never seen those kind of winds that were smooth enough that I'd want to push it, particularly changing altitudes. Good bet there's some wind shear somewhere in there. I don't mean to **** in your Cheerios though...it's pretty impressive. I hope you also took the opportunity to turn around and get negative groundspeed as well.
 
Jim K said:
I hear you, I've just never seen those kind of winds that were smooth enough that I'd want to push it, particularly changing altitudes. Good bet there's some wind shear somewhere in there. I don't mean to **** in your Cheerios though...it's pretty impressive. I hope you also took the opportunity to turn around and get negative groundspeed as well.
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I did!
My instruments never showed a negative GS number, though. The airplane symbol on the GPS just flipped around a bit, GS was depicted as somewhere between 2 and 4 kts, and my ground track was backwards.
 
Over Kansas in a Husky with a belly pod and 31” tires we were cruising in smooth air with a 100 mph tailwind showing a ground speed of 210 mph at 5,500 feet. It sure made the trip quick to Michigan.

IMG_8333.jpeg
 
Gotta say I'm dubious about the guy claiming he got 350+ in a C182.
 
I've had some records on this site in the past.

Personally, I think any "ground speed record" that isn't achieved in stabilized, level flight is a crock. Getting a ground speed "record" in a dive only shows the relationship between max cruise speed and red line for that particular airplane - with the benefit going toward those airplanes that have a high red line compared to their max cruise speed.

Of course, the web site doesn't differentiate between level flight and diving flight, so clearly my opinion is not shared by people who submit to that site.
 
RussR said:
I've had some records on this site in the past.

Personally, I think any "ground speed record" that isn't achieved in stabilized, level flight is a crock. Getting a ground speed "record" in a dive only shows the relationship between max cruise speed and red line for that particular airplane - with the benefit going toward those airplanes that have a high red line compared to their max cruise speed.

Of course, the web site doesn't differentiate between level flight and diving flight, so clearly my opinion is not shared by people who submit to that site.
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I actually agree with you. Unfortunately there’s no good way to ensure the “stabilized, level flight” rule. Let’s say a submitted photo must include both airspeed and attitude. That still doesn’t solve it. What if the photo was taken immediately after leveling off from a descent so the airplane is still carrying excess airspeed? What if the airplane is in a descent but the attitude is adjusted to depict level flight?

Since “level flight” can be gamed, I think the website made the right call to ignore attitude. Pilots are limited only by VNE and engine redline (at their own peril).
 
Katamarino said:
Gotta say I'm dubious about the guy claiming he got 350+ in a C182.
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Yeah. One very out of focus picture in which I don't see that number at all.

And second place shows the "maximum GS" on a GNS 430. I've seen that number be 1000+ knots on a 182, presumably due to a brief momentary glitch teleporting the airplane a ways a way for a single second.

The third place at 258 looks legit, though, and it's in level flight.
 
My personal best GS was 201 something MPH. And it was actually on the ground. Also in a quarter mile...
 
Zeldman said:
My personal best GS was 201 something MPH. And it was actually on the ground. Also in a quarter mile...
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Took me over a mile to get my ‘72 Olds 88 up to 110…probably coulda’ gone faster, but I had to start braking to avoid bottoming out at the intersection. They don’t build gravel roads for speed, I guess.
 
I did 352 KTS ground speed in my old SR22TN many years ago. I had just started a slight descent but this was a regular flight, not trying to set any records and I probably should have pushed a more aggressive descent to get closer to Vne (I was nowhere near it).

IMG_5183.jpeg

I can’t find it right now but somewhere I also have one of 490 KTS GS in the Mustang (TAS ~360 KTS) and that one was straight and level.
 
machkhatib said:
My instruments never showed a negative GS number . . . GS was depicted as somewhere between 2 and 4 kts, and my ground track was backwards.
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I have flight instruments with that degree of accuracy. :cool:
 
machkhatib said:
Since “level flight” can be gamed, I think the website made the right call to ignore attitude. Pilots are limited only by VNE and engine redline (at their own peril).
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It's not so much that "level flight" can be gamed. It's really just a fiction. The Earth is a(n imperfect) sphere, if one maintains one's relative distance from the center of the sphere, one is always in a gentle arc, a slight descent from the tangent.

(I used to say things like this to my geometry teacher . . . probably why I got a C-.)
 
Rene said:
It's not so much that "level flight" can be gamed. It's really just a fiction. The Earth is a(n imperfect) sphere, if one maintains one's relative distance from the center of the sphere, one is always in a gentle arc, a slight descent from the tangent.

(I used to say things like this to my geometry teacher . . . probably why I got a C-.)
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So you’re saying that continually going off on a tangent is normal?
 
I flew east from Missouri one day, with a 60 KNOT direct tail wind. The Cessna 172 had a Franklin 215 HP, with constant speed prop, de rated to 180 HP, by limiting MP .

At 11,000 feet, with a clear cold day, wide open throttle was available, and used, and produced 140 K TAS, and 200 K ground speed to Dayton Ohio. ATC treated me as a Cessna corporate plane all the way to Dayton tower, which found me hard to pick out from the regular Ga traffic in the low pattern for 27 left, while I was at high traffic pattern, expect 27 right, the long runway. I still had a groundspeed of 130 plus.

Next came, "Descend 200 feet, follow the red Cessna 150, expect clearance to land runway 27 left". Throttle to near idle, prop pitch max, for drag, slow to white arc, and 40 degrees of flaps until the red 150 was again in front of me, and slowly descend with flaps 40 until proper altitude and interval from that traffic.

I do not believe that is a record for a Cessna 172 in level flight, but is my personal best, and a fond memory.
 
Reminds me of the reading my Ski Trax ap showed after a run at The Canyons a few years ago. After relaxing in the bar, I checked the track and it showed 80MPH.

I certainly saved that "record".
 
Most speed records are not instantaneous but held over a closed or measured course... like 10miles or something.

I agree that those 'records' are just laughable in any meaningful way.
 
Rene said:
It's not so much that "level flight" can be gamed. It's really just a fiction. The Earth is a(n imperfect) sphere, if one maintains one's relative distance from the center of the sphere, one is always in a gentle arc, a slight descent from the tangent.
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Only from a fixed tangent. You're at a constant distance from the tangent where the airplane is, which is always moving.

Maybe that's why you got the C-. ;)
 
The arc is constant altitude, the tangent is climbing. Level flight is always an arc of the proper radius.

I maintained that radius within 50 feet for over 300 miles, to establish an honest record of 200 knots.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Only from a fixed tangent . . ..
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Ah, but a tangent is defined as a straight line that touches a curve or a curved surface.
And in geometry, a straight line is defined as an infinitely long object with no width, depth, or curvature.
And an arc is defined as an open curve - a portion of the boundary of a circle.
So a tangent cannot by definition be an arc. ;)

As you fly at a constant distance from the center of the earth (constant altitude) and the radius to the core moves with you, you are flying a gentle arc, that relative to you, is descending. :cool:

Since points have no area, as you fly along, you are literally constantly changing radii and tangents to maintain a constant distance to the core. You are not in truly level flight. Greek sailors noticed this thousands of years ago as the hulls of sailing ships were the first to disappear as they departed and the last to reappear as they returned to port. Eratostenes proved it 2500 years ago . . . unless, like my former math teacher, you think I just made it all up . . . "by walking . . . yeah, right". :crazy:
 
A few years back Margy and I flew to Cincinnati (LUK) for a conference. Margy had to be back on Monday and the weather looked iffy so she hitched a ride with a friend who had driven (it's about seven hours). I had a leisurely breakfast, checked out of the hotel, drove to the airport, and got everything ready. Weather is definitely IFR enorute, but nothing I wouldn't fly in (ice, storms).
I did have my O2 bottle with me so I set that up in case I had to go high over the ridges. Anyhow, it's VFR in Ohio so I depart VFR figuring out there it's not a big issue to pick up IFR en route.

Well, I'm climbing and it looks like I can possibly top out the clouds. Passing through 10,000 I put the O2 on. I look down. I'm doing 180 knots GS in the climb. This is interesting. I decide to plug along figuring any minute now I'm going to have to fess up and get an IFR clearance (I am getting FF). I level out at 17,500 on top. Now showing 260 knots GS. Wheee!. Figure, I'd have to get a clearance to get down though. Then all of a sudden the tail wind goes away. I must have crossed the front. Oh well, slow from here on. Then the clouds open up and I start down a top-of-the-arc descent and still overshoot CJR by 20 miles or so. I land and call Margy's cell. "I'm home." "Well we're still four hours out. You can cook dinner for me and Mike."
 
Jim K said:
Lol. I forgot about that site. I see that I still hold the Piper Lance record at 209 knots though. That was in level cruise with a 60 knot tailwind. It never even occurred to me dive. I don't think I'm dumb brave enough to approach VNE with those kinds of winds aloft.
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That's cute. :cornut:20220416_104558.jpg
 
I’ve hit 171 kts in a C172 flying from Slidell LA to Tifton GA. It was in February so the jet stream was pretty far south.
 
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