Ground vehicles at private airport

U

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Here's the situation. Private airport with some public use. Constant problems with airport vehicles pulling out on the runway or refusing to move off to enable aircraft to land. This could be mowers or a pickup. Primarily an old man that mows and is on a power trip to show everone he can do whatever he wants. Airplanes often have to go around. Since it's a private airport I doubt the FAA is going to have any authority there.
At a public airport one would expect there to be a notam issued for maintenance around the runway and for airport vehicles to have a handheld to communicate with arriving aircraft, but neither of these happens at this private field. It's not as easy as someone contacting airport management because they're all related and the reporter could be thrown off the field. Is this just a live with it or move situation? or is there some authority over private fields?
 
Whatever kind of radio the guys who mow at my airport use you can talk with them on ground. Maybe he can monitor and when you make you're 5 mile call everyone can coordinate and he can get off to the side. I'm sure dude don't want to get landed on any more than you want to land on him.
 
My airport, my rules, don't like it go some where else.
 
Tom-D said:
My airport, my rules, don't like it go some where else.
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Well it is private.

Aside from that, look both damn ways before you cross.

I've also seen other airports where you are only to cross before or at the threshold.
 
Check to insure your insurance is paid up well. In fact, overinsure yourself.

Wait until the old guy is out there mowing.

Do ONE low pass, then go around and land next time.

Land long to make sure you catch him fast enough to do real damage.

Since sarcasm doesn't come through well in printed form - this ^^ is sarcasm.

Deal, or leave - this, << is not sarcasm.
 
Private airport...

Does the mowing guy own it? If not talk to the actual owner. See what they say.
 
It sounds like the poor old fellow may be impaired. Speak gently to him. Assure him that you understand that he can't see and hear so well and that he's sometimes a little fuzzy in his thinking but you love him anyway and are glad to see him around the airport. Tell him that you have defended him when some guy who pretended to be his insurance agent called and aver that you are not the one who has been talking bad about him to the local police. Confirm to him that if anyone was coming in low of fuel or had an immediate need to land that the plane would probably end up in a lot worse shape than the mower.
Most of all, make sure to speak loudly to the other pilots that any rumors that the old fellow is losing his touch or his mental faculties is absolutely untrue. By god, it's the old man's damn runway and he can have a picnic on it if he wants to.

Of course, on the serious side there is probably nothing you can do about it.
 
I vote go ahead and land on the runway and see how long it takes for him to move. I bet you win that game of chicken.
 
James331 said:
Well it is private.

Aside from that, look both damn ways before you cross.

I've also seen other airports where you are only to cross before or at the threshold.
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Doesn't matter what you've seen, it is his airport. be grateful he shares.


If it were my airport, I'd look both ways out of self preservation, but I'd cross any where I please.
 
35 AoA said:
I vote go ahead and land on the runway and see how long it takes for him to move. I bet you win that game of chicken.
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And then the big "X"s go up, so who wins?

All he must do to make you go away is to call FSDO and change the airport to the big Circle P on the sectional, and your gone.

It's a whole lot better to work with / around him than convince him you are a danger to him and his property. then every one looses.
 
James331 said:
Well it is private.

Aside from that, look both damn ways before you cross.

I've also seen other airports where you are only to cross before or at the threshold.
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I'd much rather cross at midfield for visibility over obstructions.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
 
Tom-D said:
And then the big "X"s go up, so who wins?

All he must do to make you go away is to call FSDO and change the airport to the big Circle P on the sectional, and your gone.

It's a whole lot better to work with / around him than convince him you are a danger to him and his property. then every one looses.
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I guess someone isn't in a joking mood :)
 
Have you tried having a friendly conversation with the owner. Is it just you or does he do it to everyone,also like everyone is saying it is his airport.
 
Brad Z said:
Where did it say it he old man OWNS the airport? That wasn't clear.



What's a "Circle P"?
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Private airports are designated on sectionals as a red circle with an upper case P inside.
 
All he must do to make you go away is to call FSDO and change the airport to the big Circle P on the sectional, and your gone.
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Brad Z said:
What's a "Circle P"?
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Unit74 said:
Private airports are designated on sectionals as a red circle with an upper case P inside.
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Just to be clear, one can't call a FSDO and change an airport designation from one category to the next. That's done through the state's DOT or Aviation Authority, and that agency coordinates with the FAA ADO (Airports Districts Office) to change the designation.

It's possible to have a Private Use Only airport and require prior permission before using. Next category up is Private/Public Use in which the airport is privately owned but open to the public.
 
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RotorAndWing said:
Just to be clear, one can't call a FSDO and change an airport designation from one category to the next. That's done through the state's DOT or Aviation Authority, and that agency coordinates with the FAA ACO (Airports Certification Office) to change the designation.
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I'm learning all sorts of stuff on this thread. What's an Airports Certification Office?
 
Brad Z said:
I'm learning all sorts of stuff on this thread. What's an Airports Certification Office?
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My mistake, they are Airport District Offices (ADO)

They deal in airport planning, airport safety, AIP, Engineering, compliance, etc. If you have an airport issue, you go to them.

A FSDO is "Flight Standards", so I find it a bit amusing someone would tell you to go to a FSDO to complain about an airport issue. :rolleyes:
 
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I am also confused. You didn't mention if u got permission to land at this private airport. Maybe he's purposely trying to annoy certain people (ahem) who land there without permission. I dunno.
 
Tom-D said:
Doesn't matter what you've seen, it is his airport. be grateful he shares.
If it were my airport, I'd look both ways out of self preservation, but I'd cross any where I please.
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Not his airport. Privately owned by another individual. They rent out hangars. The owner presumably wants to make enough money to pay the expenses. The old man has a heck of
an ego problem, gets along with no one, is an a__hole in every sense of the word. If I ran a business like that I wouldn't want him anywhere near it because of the potential liability of having someone like that on the payroll.

It sounds like the takeaway here is just live with it and hope he doesn't pull out in front of someone and cause an accident.
 
RotorAndWing said:
That's done through the state's DOT or Aviation Authority, and that agency coordinates with the FAA ADO (Airports Districts Office) to change the designation.
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Untrue. It is done by having the owner of the airport contact the appropriate regional ADO and having the master record changed. It is a slow manual process (believe me I've had lots of fun with the Atlanta ADO that covers my airport getting things changed). The State aviation authority has no authority to tell the FAA anything about my airport.
 
Unregistered said:
Not his airport. Privately owned by another individual. They rent out hangars. The owner presumably wants to make enough money to pay the expenses. The old man has a heck of
an ego problem, gets along with no one, is an a__hole in every sense of the word. If I ran a business like that I wouldn't want him anywhere near it because of the potential liability of having someone like that on the payroll.

It sounds like the takeaway here is just live with it and hope he doesn't pull out in front of someone and cause an accident.
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It sounds like a Private Airport/Public Use situation.

Speak with the owner. If you can't resolve it, go to the state DOT or the FAA ADO.
 
flyingron said:
Untrue. It is done by having the owner of the airport contact the appropriate regional ADO and having the master record changed. It is a slow manual process (believe me I've had lots of fun with the Atlanta ADO that covers my airport getting things changed). The State aviation authority has no authority to tell the FAA anything about my airport.
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What state Ron? Remember, there are 50 states. :rolleyes2:
 
Unregistered said:
Not his airport. Privately owned by another individual. They rent out hangars. The owner presumably wants to make enough money to pay the expenses. The old man has a heck of
an ego problem, gets along with no one, is an a__hole in every sense of the word. If I ran a business like that I wouldn't want him anywhere near it because of the potential liability of having someone like that on the payroll.

It sounds like the takeaway here is just live with it and hope he doesn't pull out in front of someone and cause an accident.
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The takeaway here should be a "cease and desist" order initiated by the airport owner before this old codger chases away all of the paying tenants if he cannot be peaceably removed.

Has the owner had a chat with him? Obviously this is an issue for the owner to resolve, as it's "his airport, his rules." Is this guy an employee or a "volunteer" who trades his efforts in exchange for making everyone else's life miserable? Being involved in many volunteer organizations, that is sadly a not un-common personality type.
 
RotorAndWing said:
What state Ron? Remember, there are 50 states. :rolleyes2:
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Some day you'll learn to make a point or ask a question without the unwarranted snide comments or sarcasm.

The states are Virginia and North Carolina, but it only takes ONE state to refute your assertion as to "THIS IS THE WAY IT IS DONE" universally.
 
Unregistered said:
Not his airport. Privately owned by another individual.
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That puts it in an all together different light. Talk to the owner. But be ready to move if they like the old guy. He might just be family.


When I say FSDO think the SEA FSDO is in the same building as all the FAA departments are. call the FSDO you will be directed to the right department.
 
flyingron said:
Some day you'll learn to make a point or ask a question without the unwarranted snide comments or sarcasm.

The states are Virginia and North Carolina, but it only takes ONE state to refute your assertion as to "THIS IS THE WAY IT IS DONE" universally.
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:rolleyes2:



I tried to give a brief explanation, I could have went into page after page of detailed explanation of each state and how they differ. The OP didn't say which state, so I used the example of a state I'm familiar with (Florida).

And with that, I'm done with offering any advise or participating in a discussion here. Please revert back to the misinformation being passed around, please call the FSDO and complain about a guy mowing on an airport (they need a good laugh every now and then).

BTW Ron, how about looking in a mirror and follow your own advice sometime.
 
Unregistered said:
Here's the situation. Private airport with some public use. Constant problems with airport vehicles pulling out on the runway or refusing to move off to enable aircraft to land. This could be mowers or a pickup. Primarily an old man that mows and is on a power trip to show everone he can do whatever he wants. Airplanes often have to go around. Since it's a private airport I doubt the FAA is going to have any authority there.
At a public airport one would expect there to be a notam issued for maintenance around the runway and for airport vehicles to have a handheld to communicate with arriving aircraft, but neither of these happens at this private field. It's not as easy as someone contacting airport management because they're all related and the reporter could be thrown off the field. Is this just a live with it or move situation? or is there some authority over private fields?
Click to expand...

Are you a hangar renter?
If you are, and it turns out to be Grandpa that has the attitude /power trip. you'd best STFU. and work around it.
 
RotorAndWing said:
And with that, I'm done with offering any advise or participating in a discussion here.

Thank you very much.

Please revert back to the misinformation being passed around, please call the FSDO and complain about a guy mowing on an airport (they need a good laugh every now and then).
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised if he wasn't politely given the number of the guy that handles this stuff.
 
Unit74 said:
Private airports are designated on sectionals as a red circle with an upper case P inside.
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Unit74 said:
No but it sounds good, right?
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I guess it's worth noting at this point that there is no such thing as an airport designated on a VFR sectional with a circle and an upper case 'P'.

Non hard surfaced private airports are designed by a circle and an upper case 'R', meaning Private (or restricted use), with the name followed by '(Pvt)'.
 
Brad Z said:
I guess it's worth noting at this point that there is no such thing as an airport designated on a VFR sectional with a circle and an upper case 'P'.

Non hard surfaced private airports are designed by a circle and an upper case 'R', meaning Private (or restricted use), with the name followed by '(Pvt)'.
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A P is just an R with better balance.
 
Unregistered said:
Not his airport. Privately owned by another individual. They rent out hangars. The owner presumably wants to make enough money to pay the expenses. The old man has a heck of
an ego problem, gets along with no one, is an a__hole in every sense of the word. If I ran a business like that I wouldn't want him anywhere near it because of the potential liability of having someone like that on the payroll.

It sounds like the takeaway here is just live with it and hope he doesn't pull out in front of someone and cause an accident.
Click to expand...

If the old man is in with the owner, you have no recourse. If the old man isn't, then its up to the owner to handle the problem.
 
Brad Z said:
I guess it's worth noting at this point that there is no such thing as an airport designated on a VFR sectional with a circle and an upper case 'P'.

Non hard surfaced private airports are designed by a circle and an upper case 'R', meaning Private (or restricted use), with the name followed by '(Pvt)'.
Click to expand...

The old circle P now are (Pvt) When the change occurred I don't know.
 
Brad Z said:
Hmm. It's been an R for at least the last 22 years I've been flying.
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OMG how time flys, OBTW the Circle P are now (pvt) not R.

Private can be used by the public with out permission by the owner/s

Diamond Point is a prime example here.
 
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I think I'd send a letter, explaining the safety situation to the owner. Make sure to point out that this kind of behavior(dates, times, airplane ops disrupted is best) if blatant, and a unwarranted intrusion is occurring for some kind of power trip, or ego game, the liability may not be covered by insurance should(when) there is an incident.

There's a generally accepted process for maintaining turf runways, and if industry practice isn't being followed, and the resultant causes prop damage or injury or worse, the owner could be in a world of hurt. Even more now that the owner has been notified, in writing of the safety deficiency.
 
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