Ground Ice: Run Ups and Weather Vaning During Taxi

Sinistar

Sinistar

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Brad
So yesterday I did my first flight where it was pretty much ice every where at the airport. About the only place without ice was a narrow strip down the center of the runway that started about 300ft in from each end. Otherwise all ice. So a couple of new experiences here:

1.) During the run-up, especially when I cycled the prop (back out) the plane just started skidding along the ramp. I parked facing the wind and gave myself the most length. But I had to pull back the power during the run up twice. Are there any tricks here or just get it done fast?

2.) The landing was pretty good, treated it a bit like a soft field with a crosswind and told myself about 100x before the landing - NO BRAKES. OK - no brakes. But there was 8kt crosswind component. I purposely landed a bit left (to the upwind side). All was great until I slowed down quite a bit. About then the plane just kept wanting to go even more into the wind (felt strange, almost like a flat tire). I knew to not hit the brakes so I added just a bit of power to get some rudder back so I could get a wheel back on the clear spot in the middle. Was this pulling into the wind weather vaning? I hope I handled it right? Any advice for ice?
 
About putting the nose to the wind during run up, I don’t do it in winter. It’s low double digits or single digit or negative .... , cylinders are already cold . For ice, I try to find at least a dry spot to put the tires on before run up(easier in those dang high wings)
 
Was supposed to go up last two days. We got 12 inches snow on thurs. so airport closed thurs and Friday. Usually they have it cleared In a day. The big plow A guy that does not operate blew the clutch before he got it rolling ( just put a new tranny in that Big Mac plow). Other plow can’t push that hard. Snowblower runs slow..the big Clarke loader with snowdawg on it is doing what it can. I check my NOTAMs sat am, runway closed until 11. Ok. We get up there pull the plane out. No way we going anywhere. Only narrow strip of runway done full length. One end opened up wider. We forgo flying. Oddly enough. Someone who doesn’t check NOTAMs landed there while they were plowing. Lol. Someone could have been killed. They took off pretty quick after they realized what they did. Also could have killed someone again.
Today wake up and damn runway notamed again for closure. Ice rink and a 3’ tall 4’ wide snowbank right in center of runway for about 2500’.
 
Sinistar said:
I hope I handled it right? Any advice for ice?
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Sounds like you did Ok.

For single engine use rudder and power when on ice to go where you want to go if it is windy. As the wind blows, use enough power to keep the plane going and use the rudder to go in the direction you want to go. Yes actually slide it. Slowly.

Rolling runups are the usual if there isn't any traction. If the snow is deep enough that the brake calipers are in the snow, don't use the brakes. The heat will melt the snow which will then freeze up when you stop, which makes a very effective parking brake that does not release. I can't tell you how many times I have frozen the brakes in Alaska, and then used the fire extinguisher to break the ice off the brakes. Funny to watch a 747 taxi at Anchorage with a set of main wheels not turning, then it hits a clear patch of pavement.

I was used to it at the time, but I have landed and taken off in a 45 degree crab on ice runways using the rudder and power to keep the plane on the imaginary center line. The wind was 30g40 and around 45 degrees to the runway. In the twin I used differential power as well as rudder. Like I said, I did it on a daily basis, don't try this at home.
 
Stewartb said:
Rolling run ups make good sense.
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Do you mind elaborating a bit?

I've never done a rolling run up and the first image that comes to mind is me spinning out on a taxiway trying to do a mag check while rolling on ice :eek:
 
Why would you spin out? Just do your engine and prop checks while rolling, so no brakes, or pick your spots so you have effective brakes. Trying to hold it still on ice isn't a good plan in many cases. Like on skis, floats, or tires on ice.
 
Sinistar said:
Do you mind elaborating a bit?

I've never done a rolling run up and the first image that comes to mind is me spinning out on a taxiway trying to do a mag check while rolling on ice :eek:
Click to expand...

Think he meant doing the run up during the take off roll
 
If it’s icy & slippery I may do the ‘run-up’ & mag checks at less than stated RPM, and/or during taxi. For me this ‘assumes’ one owns the plane as is familiar with maintenance and recent history.

It’s one of those things, how much of a run-up against the possibility of going off the taxiway or into a snowbank.
 
Assuming you were unable to do a mag check and prop cycle before going out onto the taxiway, simply cycling the mags at idle, or at low throttle under taxi, assures that you do not have a dead mag - before starting the TO roll.

I had one of those suddenly a couple of months back. On a taxi back after doing a x-wind landing, I idly checked the mags and got a shock as one engine suddenly died (momentarily) as I cycled the mag switches - the end of playtime for that day. That mag had been fine on run up less than ten minutes before. This was immediately after the rightly feared 'annual', of course. (I'll leave the cause for the student to ponder)

Sometimes you may have to skip cycling the prop - though I have always managed to cycle a bit of warm(er) oil through the dome even at slow taxi. The prop response assures me that it is at fine pitch for takeoff. If it refuses to reduce RPM during the climb out, you can simply stay in the pattern and land again.
On the runway as soon as you feed in the power, cycle the mags right at the start of the roll. You will have time to abort the takeoff if there is an issue. (you will not be able to spend time squinting at the tach to decide if the mag drop meets the book - either it feels right or it doesn't)

EDIT: ok the editor has gone bonkers and decided a paragraph change was the send command (shrug).
Now, doing a proper run up is always the best. But sometimes the real world intrudes on what is best. All this assumes you know the plane through and through and you are current enough to feel/sense what the engine is doing as you cycle mags and props and such while rolling.
 
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Stewartb said:
Never flown a plane that didn’t have brakes I assume? People are often quick to criticize what they don’t have any experience with.
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Correct. Never flew a plane that didn’t have brakes.
To me that does not sound wise. Perhaps I’m uninformed.
 
Flaotplanes and ski planes operate in tight spaces in close proximity to other planes and they don’t have brakes. Come visit Lake Hood on a typical busy day. No problems.

The worst conditions for airplane control during ground ops is skis on slick wet ice. You steer with rudder and throttle while maintaining a slow as possible ground speed. Tundra tires on wet packed snow and ice and a crowned strip can be a handful, too.
 
I enjoyed learning to fly in Canada 1977 and remember a runway that was part ice, part dry pavement then part ice again etc etc.
With a stiff cross wind, I recall touching down, doing a weathervane slide across the ice then hitting the pavement at that angle, getting yanked straight, then back on ice to weathervane again without much directional control, yanked straight when back on pavement!
Glare ice all the way would have been easier on the airplane.
 
That was a popular ortho surgeon soon after getting transition training. Not trimmed for the load. Mistakes happen. That has nothing to do with run-ups.
 
Sinistar said:
2.) The landing was pretty good, treated it a bit like a soft field with a crosswind and told myself about 100x before the landing - NO BRAKES. OK - no brakes. But there was 8kt crosswind component. I purposely landed a bit left (to the upwind side). All was great until I slowed down quite a bit. About then the plane just kept wanting to go even more into the wind (felt strange, almost like a flat tire). I knew to not hit the brakes so I added just a bit of power to get some rudder back so I could get a wheel back on the clear spot in the middle. Was this pulling into the wind weather vaning? I hope I handled it right? Any advice for ice?
Click to expand...
Yes on the weather vaning. Tailwheeling experience can help here since tw pilots are always aware of weather vaning tendencies. So much so that you might even consider starting on the downwind side of the runway.

Weather vaning is a dominant tendency at slow speeds.

Tail wheel example: Landing in a strong crosswind from the right, the plane lands with full left rudder and enough aileron to keep it straight. Needing to exit left, the pilot doesn’t have enough left rudder and prop blast to make a left turn off the runway. What to do? Solution is to make a 270degree right turn.

Unassisted glider tow example: How to position a glider for an unassisted aero tow, that is, a tow without a wing runner. Solution is to do everything counter to first instincts. In a crosswind from the right you put the left wing (!) on the ground and point the nose to the left. Apply controls as required as you start rolling.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Sinistar said:
So yesterday I did my first flight where it was pretty much ice every where at the airport. About the only place without ice was a narrow strip down the center of the runway that started about 300ft in from each end. Otherwise all ice. So a couple of new experiences here:

1.) During the run-up, especially when I cycled the prop (back out) the plane just started skidding along the ramp. I parked facing the wind and gave myself the most length. But I had to pull back the power during the run up twice. Are there any tricks here or just get it done fast?

2.) The landing was pretty good, treated it a bit like a soft field with a crosswind and told myself about 100x before the landing - NO BRAKES. OK - no brakes. But there was 8kt crosswind component. I purposely landed a bit left (to the upwind side). All was great until I slowed down quite a bit. About then the plane just kept wanting to go even more into the wind (felt strange, almost like a flat tire). I knew to not hit the brakes so I added just a bit of power to get some rudder back so I could get a wheel back on the clear spot in the middle. Was this pulling into the wind weather vaning? I hope I handled it right? Any advice for ice?
Click to expand...
Wow that sounds cold. Sorry down here in the South, 65 and Blue Skies!!! :)
 
Kritchlow said:
Correct. Never flew a plane that didn’t have brakes.
To me that does not sound wise. Perhaps I’m uninformed.
Click to expand...
Lots of airplanes with wheels, and no brakes. And stopping them require some counter intuitive technique.
 
Sinistar said:
So yesterday I did my first flight where it was pretty much ice every where at the airport. About the only place without ice was a narrow strip down the center of the runway that started about 300ft in from each end. Otherwise all ice. So a couple of new experiences here:

1.) During the run-up, especially when I cycled the prop (back out) the plane just started skidding along the ramp. I parked facing the wind and gave myself the most length. But I had to pull back the power during the run up twice. Are there any tricks here or just get it done fast?

2.) The landing was pretty good, treated it a bit like a soft field with a crosswind and told myself about 100x before the landing - NO BRAKES. OK - no brakes. But there was 8kt crosswind component. I purposely landed a bit left (to the upwind side). All was great until I slowed down quite a bit. About then the plane just kept wanting to go even more into the wind (felt strange, almost like a flat tire). I knew to not hit the brakes so I added just a bit of power to get some rudder back so I could get a wheel back on the clear spot in the middle. Was this pulling into the wind weather vaning? I hope I handled it right? Any advice for ice?
Click to expand...

Do your runup the way the seaplane and skiplane pilots do it: On the move and quickly. You can even do it at the beginning of the takeoff roll if the runway is long enough - Pull onto the runway, go to runup RPM as you start to roll/skid, quick check of the mags, one cycle of the prop and then push the throttle the rest of the way in. If there's ice everywhere and the runway *isn't* long enough for that, it may still be your best bet - Do the runup as described above except pull back to idle, slow down and exit the runway and taxi back for the actual takeoff roll.

Having all icy surfaces really drives home the "fly it all the way to the chocks" philosophy. If the entire runway is icy, you can actually land in a crab. Use the flight surfaces and a blast of power when necessary to help you taxi.

This is the kind of thing I find "fun", but then again, I like to go out driving in blizzards for "fun" too. It's a fun challenge to make masses, velocities, accelerations, and friction coefficients dance while avoiding death and damage. :D
 
Sinistar said:
So yesterday I did my first flight where it was pretty much ice every where at the airport. About the only place without ice was a narrow strip down the center of the runway that started about 300ft in from each end. Otherwise all ice. So a couple of new experiences here:

1.) During the run-up, especially when I cycled the prop (back out) the plane just started skidding along the ramp. I parked facing the wind and gave myself the most length. But I had to pull back the power during the run up twice. Are there any tricks here or just get it done fast?

2.) The landing was pretty good, treated it a bit like a soft field with a crosswind and told myself about 100x before the landing - NO BRAKES. OK - no brakes. But there was 8kt crosswind component. I purposely landed a bit left (to the upwind side). All was great until I slowed down quite a bit. About then the plane just kept wanting to go even more into the wind (felt strange, almost like a flat tire). I knew to not hit the brakes so I added just a bit of power to get some rudder back so I could get a wheel back on the clear spot in the middle. Was this pulling into the wind weather vaning? I hope I handled it right? Any advice for ice?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't presum to try giving advice, but want to thank you for some tips on how you handled this. We are getting there (ice, snow) where I am, and I was wondering about the same thing. Seems like you handled it smartly!
 
Now that is some tail dragging fun


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Tail dragger fun is landing straight skis on a polished lake and not being able to stop and not having space to go around. Purposely ground looping a plane isn't as easy as you might think!
 
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