Great Advice from my CFI - Record Every Flight!

VWGhiaBob

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VWGhiaBob
Anyone else record your lessons?

Just starting my IFR and my instructor encouraged me to do an audio recording of every flight. Just played back a 90 minute IFR lesson, and I can say that without a doubt, I will get MUCH more out of my training investment this way. Wrote down many notes that I can now study.

So many things happened on this flight...lessons learned...would only really remember 1/2 of them without the recording.

Makes me wonder if I should video the lessons too. Anyone found this useful from a training perspective?
 
Anyone else record your lessons?

Just starting my IFR and my instructor encouraged me to do an audio recording of every flight. Just played back a 90 minute IFR lesson, and I can say that without a doubt, I will get MUCH more out of my training investment this way. Wrote down many notes that I can now study.

So many things happened on this flight...lessons learned...would only really remember 1/2 of them without the recording.

Makes me wonder if I should video the lessons too. Anyone found this useful from a training perspective?

I have not done so, but I know some airlines have done it for years. As a lacrosse coach (essentially a teacher), I find video invaluable for seeing things I missed during a game.
 
I started doing this for IFR without even being told, incredibly useful especially during foggle work as you can then compare your flying with what's really outside the window.
 
I video'd every lesson during ppl training. it was absolutely exremely helpful. of course before I even got in the plane I asked my instructor if he was cool with it, which he was, and even more so after he saw that I didn't futz with it for one second during flight. just set it up and forget it.
 
...Just played back a 90 minute IFR lesson...

You know it probably is useful and no offense but I couldn't resist. I hope you can enjoy my humor because that's all this is about :)

homer-sleeping.gif
 
Honestly even if i recorded my flights I would probably not listen to them. Your instructor, if not already, should be de-briefing and critiquing you after every flight on what you did right and what you did wrong or not so right. I think its a lot more useful than listening to a recording of your flight. After every lesson, me and my CFI go over what I did right, why I did it right, what I did wrong, why I did it wrong, and what I need to do to improve the manuevers for next lesson. The stuff I need to work on, I'll write down, for example, "use more rudder on Chandelles," "pull out checklist after cruise," "slow things down on Lazy 8's." Before each lesson, I try to look at my notes before and try to remember to do these things in preparation for the next lesson
 
...Your instructor, if not already, should be de-briefing and critiquing you after every flight on what you did right and what you did wrong or not so right....After every lesson, me and my CFI go over what I did right, why I did it right, what I did wrong, why I did it wrong, and what I need to do to improve the manuevers for next lesson. ....

just out of curiosity, are you being charged ground time for this?
 
Yea. We usually spend about 10 minutes on the ground


I guess im pretty fortunate my instructor doesnt charge me for a debriefing. I just find it kind of tasteless that I would be charged for 10 minutes of discussion. Sure its his job and he deserves compensation but theres something to be said for a professional who does not try to milk every last dime from you. I find that when he has revealed that its just about money then I no longer respect him as a professional.

I work in safety, sure the money is good and we all work for our paycheck. But you can tell those who are only in it for a paycheck and those who actually care about safety and/or teaching. Just my .02$ ;)
 
I guess im pretty fortunate my instructor doesnt charge me for a debriefing. I just find it kind of tasteless that I would be charged for 10 minutes of discussion. Sure its his job and he deserves compensation but theres something to be said for a professional who does not try to milk every last dime from you. I find that when he has revealed that its just about money then I no longer respect him as a professional.

I work in safety, sure the money is good and we all work for our paycheck. But you can tell those who are only in it for a paycheck and those who actually care about safety and/or teaching. Just my .02$ ;)
The way I see it is that I am still learning from him during those 10-15 minutes and I want to pay him for his instruction
 

Bingo all you want, a little bit goes a long way in terms of professionalism. When I get the impression im just cash, all credibility is lost and I'll pay the man but he wont get my return business.

"hey great, lesson btw those 15 minutes and 23 seconds we talked as we put the plane away, I gotta charge you for that"

Sometimes, to project the impression you really care you might have to show that your interested aside from dinging your student for every second you talk. I cant even blame it being from the southern states because my CFI is 100% German but he's really interested in training me vs gouging me.

Thats why even though he's 10$ more an hour then any CFI around, I pay him gladly. He talks with me before and after the flight and only charges me for the time the motor is running. Unless its a designated ground lesson.


Edit: Thinking back, my first lesson with my current CFI was so out of the norm in terms of professionalism and courtesy I tipped the man 50$ because I felt he was worth more then his rate. And he's never once asked for a penny during our before/after mini discussions.
 
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I personally would feel pretty bad about expecting my CFI/Lawyer/CPA/Waitron/Yard man/Plumber/auto mechanic/airplane mechanic/ to work for free.

YMMV
 
I personally would feel pretty bad about expecting my CFI/Lawyer/CPA/Waitron/Yard man/Plumber/auto mechanic/airplane mechanic/ to work for free.

YMMV


Yea, guess your right. I really enjoy when im getting taught and im on a stopwatch at all times.


I should probably pay my CFI back for that stop we made at Lancaster for fuel and burgers and we talked for about 45 minutes about the flight. Im such a cheap bastard.......
 
just out of curiosity, are you being charged ground time for this?


I would expect it (the ground debrief) to be part of the lesson and, therefore part of what I'm contracting with the CFI for: instruction; whether it be Pt 61 or 141.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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Yea, guess your right. I really enjoy when im getting taught and im on a stopwatch at all times.


I should probably pay my CFI back for that stop we made at Lancaster for fuel and burgers and we talked for about 45 minutes about the flight. Im such a cheap bastard.......
Its a service. I pay him when he is giving me instruction. Those 10 minutes, he is giving me instruction. I see nothing wrong with it and do not feel like he is milking me for every penny
 
I would expect it (the ground debrief) to be part of the lesson and, therefore part of what I'm contracting with the VFI for: instruction; whether it be Pt 61 or 141.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I enjoy having my CFI all the more now. I pay him whatever he says the lesson was in terms of time. But he's never told me he charged me for the discussion afterwards.

He did charge me for fuel when he had to fly to my airport for our first few lessons, which I more then accepted. He came highly reccomended. This guy will be a mentor for life.
 
I enjoy having my CFI all the more now. I pay him whatever he says the lesson was in terms of time. But he's never told me he charged me for the discussion afterwards.

He did charge me for fuel when he had to fly to my airport for our first few lessons, which I more then accepted. He came highly reccomended. This guy will be a mentor for life.


If your CFI gives you the lesson time, it's his decision on how much time to charge, whether it's air or ground, and I don't have a problem with that.

My original response was from the perspective of someone asking "are you paying this guy for 10 mins of ground instruction?" As though that is either a: unheard of; or b: excessive charges by the CFI.

When I'm working with a CFI, I have no problems paying him the same rate, whether in the air or on the ground for the time we spend together. I also realize the CFI is probably already spending time working for me that I'm not being charged for.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I didn't mean to hijack the thread, but as far as your cfi charging for the "extra" time...if they are TEACHING you, you (we) should pay. I feel if you're just having a conversation about a flight, we shouldn't be charged. Trust me, if you add up the time the instructor is sitting in the plane not actually instructing vs 5-10 minutes debriefing, I don't think they should charge for that.

As for paying your mechanic/lawyer/etc...you pay for the time it should take to do the job, not if they start the job, go to lunch, smoke a cig, take a nap, then finish the job.

If I'm learning, I'm more than happy to pay my instructor.

Which leads to the video and OP's question....that's free debriefing for you right there. A lot of it is boring but I picked up something I missed on almost every lesson by watching the vids.
 
<snip>

Thats why even though he's 10$ more an hour then any CFI around, I pay him gladly. He talks with me before and after the flight and only charges me for the time the motor is running. Unless its a designated ground lesson.

<snip>.

The $10/hr more is the answer, He knows that he will make enough without charging you for every second you are with him. It also means he can act like a professional before and after the flight and spend a few extra minutes with you if you need it without both of you watching the clock. In the long run he probably cost about the same or probably even less than someone who charges $10/hr less but charges for every second you are with them.

Brian
 
The $10/hr more is the answer, He knows that he will make enough without charging you for every second you are with him. It also means he can act like a professional before and after the flight and spend a few extra minutes with you if you need it without both of you watching the clock. In the long run he probably cost about the same or probably even less than someone who charges $10/hr less but charges for every second you are with them.

Brian


Probably right on the money. :lol:
 
Bingo all you want, a little bit goes a long way in terms of professionalism. When I get the impression im just cash, all credibility is lost and I'll pay the man but he wont get my return business.

"hey great, lesson btw those 15 minutes and 23 seconds we talked as we put the plane away, I gotta charge you for that"

Sometimes, to project the impression you really care you might have to show that your interested aside from dinging your student for every second you talk. I cant even blame it being from the southern states because my CFI is 100% German but he's really interested in training me vs gouging me.

Thats why even though he's 10$ more an hour then any CFI around, I pay him gladly. He talks with me before and after the flight and only charges me for the time the motor is running. Unless its a designated ground lesson.


Edit: Thinking back, my first lesson with my current CFI was so out of the norm in terms of professionalism and courtesy I tipped the man 50$ because I felt he was worth more then his rate. And he's never once asked for a penny during our before/after mini discussions.

If you’re poker faced about the money, it may not matter. If not, then you’re probably being penny wise and pound foolish.

As a recent student, and not as a CFI, I think it makes really good sense to pay the guy who charges $30 per hour for passing along his knowledge and experience for his time. That's what he's selling. (Note - The school charges $60, and I’m guessing that his cut is $30)

I would NEVER want my CFI to think that I think that he shouldn’t charge me because that would mean he wouldn’t give me his full attention. He’s got rent to pay and a family to feed just like me.

Some days, we just did ground. Other days, we did something like a pre-flight lesson for 45 minutes, 1.2 of flight, and then 15 minutes or so of post-flight ground. His charge to me then would have been 2.2, i.e. 1.0 hour greater than the hobbs time. On other days, we met at the plane, flew for 1.0 hour, and did .2 of post-flight ground, and then I got charged for 1.0 hour of rental and 1.2 hours of instructor. It wasn't unusual for them to be a little out of sync.

I don’t think it would have been wise to make any sort of signals that any of his time spent training me should be complimentary regardless of when or where it occurred.

My CFI rocked. I’m grateful that I drew him and don’t begrudge him even one penny. He earned it all.
 
Yea, guess your right. I really enjoy when im getting taught and im on a stopwatch at all times.


I should probably pay my CFI back for that stop we made at Lancaster for fuel and burgers and we talked for about 45 minutes about the flight. Im such a cheap bastard.......

When your CFI is teaching you "for free", he's still on the clock... every minute he spends giving you free time, he's not giving another student time he gets compensated for. No fault to him for providing that, but your earlier posts seem to suggest that you take it for granted, as if it's an expected service and a requirement to earn your business. It's not clear from your later posts that you still feel this way or not, but it's definitely unreasonable to expect to not be charged for your CFI's time when the time is productive towards your flying agenda.
 
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Anyone else record your lessons?

Just starting my IFR and my instructor encouraged me to do an audio recording of every flight. Just played back a 90 minute IFR lesson, and I can say that without a doubt, I will get MUCH more out of my training investment this way. Wrote down many notes that I can now study.

So many things happened on this flight...lessons learned...would only really remember 1/2 of them without the recording.

Makes me wonder if I should video the lessons too. Anyone found this useful from a training perspective?

My IR instructor encourages me to do the same.
 
Back on topic..

I usually write down things I screwed up, or important notes I thought I would find valuable down the road. I have a notepad I keep with me at all times on my kneeboard.

I end up laughing at myself and what I was going through at the time. Sometimes I read them for pure enjoyment.
 
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