Greasers? More like grease splatter!

N6958H

N6958H

Filing Flight Plan
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Mar 28, 2012
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Steele,mo
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N6958H
I have been having landing issues my last few times out. Glide speed too fast, flare early, floating down the runway you name it and I'm doing it. Landings were my favorite part of flight training and seemed so natural but I've seemed to hit a brick wall.

I have went up the past two days and pounded out several landings trying to figure out what i am missing or if I have changed anything. Most of my problems usually start right before touchdown, after that point I'm all over the place even in little to no wind. I am going to call my CFI to go up with my in the morning just wanted to vent and maybe get some feed back on some things I can try.
 
Actually, your CFI will tell you that your "problems" (they are really not problems at all) start way before touchdown. Have your CFI work your way back in the process for your entire approach sequence. You'll discover what needs to be done.

BTW we all have been where you are, and those who say otherwise are not tellling the truth.

Not all landings have to be 'greasers', and trying to do that everytime is unproductive. You end up using way too much brainpower on that rather than concentrating on the fundamentals. You'll probably find that your airspeed control might have alot to do with your situation.
 
Everyone goes through this. EVERYONE.

Mary (my wife) had a long stretch where she just could not land smoothly. She was VERY frustrated, and so was I, because nothing seemed to help. Gradually, she has worked her way through it.

Same thing happened to me at around 500 hours. It was weird, but I just seemed to lose the "touch" for greasing it in. Over time, things got better, and I've had not trouble since -- but it was very frustrating.

The main thing that seems to help me is to remind myself to focus on the FAR end of the runway in the flare, and don't let it land. Unless you're aiming for a spot, or have a short runway, that's the technique that seems to net the best landing results for me.
 
N6958H said:
I have been having landing issues my last few times out. Glide speed too fast, flare early, floating down the runway you name it and I'm doing it. Landings were my favorite part of flight training and seemed so natural but I've seemed to hit a brick wall.

I have went up the past two days and pounded out several landings trying to figure out what i am missing or if I have changed anything. Most of my problems usually start right before touchdown, after that point I'm all over the place even in little to no wind. I am going to call my CFI to go up with my in the morning just wanted to vent and maybe get some feed back on some things I can try.
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First thing I'd consider is whether you're too focused on "greasers". At this stage of the game you should strive for touchdowns on the mains with minimal side load and somewhere near the centerline that don't bend metal or make your backside hurt. Making a greaser involves coming very close to the "edge" beyond which you'll get a hard landing or worse if you overdo things slightly. If you can just get your vertical speed down to less than about 50 FPM and make the mains touch first you are likely to become a lot more consistent than you will if your intent is to grease it on every time.
 
That's actually what myself and my pilot friend who has around 600hrs were just talking about. I think I concentrate on "perfection" which is something at 30.1 hours that I don't not posses. My landings are not to the point of dangerous or even scary (except for one or two) I just want to be the safest pilot I can be.

Since I started my training I have found this site very useful and the input from more experienced pilots great! The comments are real and not something I can find in my text books so when I have a issue I make a post. I'll get through this and hopefully be able to pass on what Ive learned from my experience to another person later on in my journey. The aviation community is a fine group of folks for the most part and I'm proud to be working my way towards being a part of this elite group.
 
DutchessFlier said:
A

BTW we all have been where you are, and those who say otherwise are not tellling the truth.
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:yeahthat: During your training you might find bad habits slipping in here and there. Your instructor will detect those and help you overcome them. Eventually it will all come together...

Good Luck...;)
 
The single most important thing that made my landings consistent was to nail the airspeed on approach. By holding the same airspeed +/- 2 knots, I flew the same attitude and as a result, the roundout and flair sight picture started to look the same each time. Your mileage may vary.
 
I went through a rough period on landings while training for my Instrument. In fact, some of my worst landings to date were during instrument training.
 
GCA319 said:
I went through a rough period on landings while training for my Instrument. In fact, some of my worst landings to date were during instrument training.
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That! Me too. Somehow all that time buzzing around with foggles on made me forget how to land. I've had to work on that. It came back, but it took some work.
 
I am sure that it is something simple and that you'll end up smacking your forehead once you figure it out.
 
The "problems" are not appearing just over the runway or just prior to touchdown. Your probblems are starting in the pattern. Too high of a pattern speed, not reducing throttle enough, too high, too hot, etc. Watch your speeds, and altitude when turning final. If you are too high reduce the throttle, and slip a bit to scrub of airspeed and loose some altitude.

It sounds like you are either too high on final, too fast, probably both. A partial power, stabilized approach is what you want.
 
Thanks for the input guys, I just got back from the airport and this is what myself and my CFI came up with.

Approach set up is fine, not perfect but definitely manageable. Where my problem starts is airspeed. Im too slow and by the time I make the runway I am so slow I lose a lot of control and the controls feel mushy. So I started coming in faster and holding that airspeed till the runway was made then bleed airspeed off during my flare. Worked very well for me even on intentially baulked approach set ups( too high, too low). Tried several combos and all worked well.
 
N6958H said:
That's actually what myself and my pilot friend who has around 600hrs were just talking about. I think I concentrate on "perfection" which is something at 30.1 hours that I don't not posses. My landings are not to the point of dangerous or even scary (except for one or two) I just want to be the safest pilot I can be.

Since I started my training I have found this site very useful and the input from more experienced pilots great! The comments are real and not something I can find in my text books so when I have a issue I make a post. I'll get through this and hopefully be able to pass on what Ive learned from my experience to another person later on in my journey. The aviation community is a fine group of folks for the most part and I'm proud to be working my way towards being a part of this elite group.
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"Do not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good." Don't know who said that, but it rings true.

Bob Gardner
 
I agree with the others who say the key to great landings is proper set up in the pattern. Hit your numbers in the beginning and all the rest will fall in line. Also, no one ever hits them perfect every time, so don't worry too much about it. Just make them safe.
 
N6958H said:
Thanks for the input guys, I just got back from the airport and this is what myself and my CFI came up with.

Approach set up is fine, not perfect but definitely manageable. Where my problem starts is airspeed. Im too slow and by the time I make the runway I am so slow I lose a lot of control and the controls feel mushy. So I started coming in faster and holding that airspeed till the runway was made then bleed airspeed off during my flare. Worked very well for me even on intentially baulked approach set ups( too high, too low). Tried several combos and all worked well.
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The too slow problem was exactly my problem during training and still is something I am aware of even though I have my PPL. My breakthrough came when my instructor told me to keep the nose pointing down during final approach. I still tell myself this every time I land. I find that I'm able to hold 70 knots on final with about 1500 rpm- this is a 172s by the way-. Without having enough speed on final I would really have a hard time flaring properly because I would already be in a relatively nose up attitude prior to this tip. Literally within 5 landings after I was told to keep the nose pointing down I was landing so much more smoothly and consistently.

I hope this help, landing takes practice and consistency.
 
Along these lines, Sunday I was helping/letting a friend fly the Apache in the approach and landing - talking him through it... He has student time in a T-Craft and PA140... The thing that forced me to take over every time was on short final he would not keep the nose down - even with me saying over and over "Don't pull!"... He had a compulsion to pull (fear of the ground) that he just could not overcome... So there we would be 50 feet high crossing the fence, pitched up and mushing, and about to fall out of the sky... He handles the airplane just fine on takeoff and climb and in the pattern, and the early approach... Then things start to go off into the weeds... He drifts to one side, starts getting slow, gets tense, pulls, and it all falls apart...
Oh well, Rome was not built in a day..
 
Jay Honeck said:
Everyone goes through this. EVERYONE.

Mary (my wife) had a long stretch where she just could not land smoothly. She was VERY frustrated, and so was I, because nothing seemed to help. Gradually, she has worked her way through it.

Same thing happened to me at around 500 hours. It was weird, but I just seemed to lose the "touch" for greasing it in. Over time, things got better, and I've had not trouble since -- but it was very frustrating.

The main thing that seems to help me is to remind myself to focus on the FAR end of the runway in the flare, and don't let it land. Unless you're aiming for a spot, or have a short runway, that's the technique that seems to net the best landing results for me.
Click to expand...

Ditto!
 
related question: when in flare, do most people pull back FULLY on the yoke or do you just pull back enough to get the attitude up, then let the speed slip off till touchdown?
 
Badger said:
related question: when in flare, do most people pull back FULLY on the yoke or do you just pull back enough to get the attitude up, then let the speed slip off till touchdown?
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The answer is simple: It depends. If you are on speed and making a normal approach, a gentle pressure will ease the nose up and set you down. If you are making a high energy steep approach to a short landing over an obstacle you take away your energy with a more energetic maneuver and set it down. There is no standard.
 
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